Zimmerman trial: Neighbor testifies Trayvon Martin was straddling Zimmerman moments before fatal gun - Polidicks

[QUOTE=teh pirate;41239556]Even here I'm willing to say, just from what I've read about the two, that this was a case of self-defense. It doesn't make sense for Zimmerman to go murder this random black kid because he's black, it doesn't add up with Zimmerman's history. [editline]29th June 2013[/editline] Martin didn't just punch him, it's right in the thread title[/QUOTE] I agree. That's why, in my opinion it will end in an acquittal.

[QUOTE=Skullivan21;41239577]I agree. That's why, in my opinion it will end in an acquittal.[/QUOTE] It's a shame that there's no way Zimmerman can have a fair trial. If he's acquitted, he really, really should sue ABC for libel - because his life is ruined.

[QUOTE=Valnar;41239550]Even if martin was the aggressor that doesn't necessarily justify Zimmerman's actions. Just as an example, if someone punches you, you don't have the right to shoot them back because of that.[/QUOTE] Ya know what... if a reasonable person thinks that your actions are life threatening then I do have every right, in Florida and many other states, to shoot you. It really comes down to what the jury thinks is life threatening. Personally if you tried to slam my head on concrete, as Mr. Zimmerman claims, then I would have shot too.

[QUOTE=teh pirate;41239556]Even here I'm willing to say, just from what I've read about the two, that this was a case of self-defense. It doesn't make sense for Zimmerman to go murder this random black kid because he's black, it doesn't add up with Zimmerman's history. [editline]29th June 2013[/editline] Martin didn't just punch him, it's right in the thread title[/QUOTE] I was using just a punch as an example. The point behind what I was saying was that you don't get automatic rights to escalate a situation with a gun, in the name of self-defense, if someone attacks you.

[QUOTE=Valnar;41239601]I was using just a punch as an example. The point behind what I was saying was that you don't get automatic rights to escalate a situation with a gun, in the name of self-defense, if someone attacks you.[/QUOTE] You do if you, as a reasonable person, think that your violent actions are life threatening. [editline]29th June 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=teh pirate;41239596]It's a shame that there's no way Zimmerman can have a fair trial. If he's acquitted, he really, really should sue ABC for libel - because his life is ruined.[/QUOTE] He could but if I were him I'd just lay low and try to return to a normal life.

[QUOTE=Valnar;41239601]I was using just a punch as an example. The point behind what I was saying was that you don't get automatic rights to escalate a situation with a gun, in the name of self-defense, if someone attacks you.[/QUOTE] Actually under Florida's castle doctrine you have every right to defend yourself when your life is within perceived danger; If Trayvon had indeed assaulted Zimmerman by slamming his head on concrete repetitively and saying 'I'll kill' you then that would be a textbook example of an apropriate use of deadly force. While you may dislike the laws in place, in the state of Florida it would be perfectly legal. [QUOTE=Skullivan21;41239617] He could but if I were him I'd just lay low and try to return to a normal life.[/QUOTE] I'd at least try to squeeze as much money out of them so I could comfortably move on somewheres else and not worry over financial constrictions.

[QUOTE=teh pirate;41239483]Are you suggesting that Zimmerman went and beat his own head into the sidewalk? Zimmerman strikes me as a concerned citizen. He frequently wrote letters to people in office, attended public meetings, etc. At one point he publicly expressed his disgust with the police following what appeared to him as a racially charged beating. I cannot bring myself to say George Zimmerman is a racist or has a blood lust.[/QUOTE] I made no comment about this case or about Zimmerman. All I said was if you kill someone in self-defense, it is still up to you to prove it was justified in court. You aren't innocent when you admit you killed somebody.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;41236086]Are you really that afraid of some idiots on twitter?[/QUOTE] No, but if something does go down I'll be alive at the end of it. It's not like it's tough to carry 3 lbs.

after reading this thread im sure we can all universally agree that iago is the biggest idiot on fp

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;41239700]I made no comment about this case or about Zimmerman. All I said was if you kill someone in self-defense, it is still up to you to prove it was justified in court. You aren't innocent when you admit you killed somebody.[/QUOTE] You keep passing over the part where the prosecution is trying to convict him of second degree murder. It IS on the prosecution to prove that. Zimmerman does not have to prove it wasn't second degree murder. In essence the self defense claim is to explain the killing, not the second degree murder accusation. Killing someone does not equal murdering them. Just because you admit killing someone does not put you in an automatic 'guilty of a crime' category. There are legal, noncriminal reasons to kill someone and if the state wants to put you in prison the first thing they have to do is prove a crime was committed.

I seriously hope this shit won't ruin Zimmerman's life forever. He seems such a nice guy, too.

[QUOTE=Garik;41240406]I seriously hope this shit won't ruin Zimmerman's life forever. He seems such a nice guy, too.[/QUOTE] This is honestly probably going to be a big step up for Zimmerman's life, considering the outpouring of support he's received.

[QUOTE=Crazy Ivan;41240421]This is honestly probably going to be a big step up for Zimmerman's life, considering the outpouring of support he's received.[/QUOTE] I guess. But I'd still be pretty worried about potential maniacs wanting "justice" if I were him.

[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;41240263]You keep passing over the part where the prosecution is trying to convict him of second degree murder. It IS on the prosecution to prove that. Zimmerman does not have to prove it wasn't second degree murder. In essence the self defense claim is to explain the killing, not the second degree murder accusation. Killing someone does not equal murdering them. Just because you admit killing someone does not put you in an automatic 'guilty of a crime' category. There are legal, noncriminal reasons to kill someone and if the state wants to put you in prison the first thing they have to do is prove a crime was committed.[/QUOTE] [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_defense#Burden_of_proof[/URL] Yes, the prosecution has to prove it was 2nd degree, but the burden is still on Zimmerman's side to prove the homicide was justified in the first place.

[QUOTE=HighdefGE;41235147]You're acting like Zimmerman had the intent to murder in the first place (which if he wanted to then why didn't he before confronting him). If someone is swearing towards you, punches you, beats your face to a pulp on the ground, tries to muffle your cries for help, and threatens to murder you in the act, you have the right to shoot him. End of story. But no, because Martin happened to be black, all of a sudden you people are screaming that it's racially motivated when in reality it didn't matter what color he was.[/QUOTE] I hate the fuckers that defend Trayvon simply because he is/was black. It's ridiculous and I can't believe people are still so stupid as to believe that black people can never be subject to the same suspicions as anyone else. Of course, the persecution complex is strong in them, because now that they have very little racism to worry about, they don't have too much to blame their shitty disposition on, so they simply make it up. [editline]29th June 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Crazy Ivan;41240421]This is honestly probably going to be a big step up for Zimmerman's life, considering the outpouring of support he's received.[/QUOTE] I hope that is the case, but as with all "racist murderers" he is a candidate for being brutally murdered, because how else can you prove that you aren't deserving of prejudice than by murdering people?

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;41240617][URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_defense#Burden_of_proof[/URL] Yes, the prosecution has to prove it was 2nd degree, but the burden is still on Zimmerman's side to prove the homicide was justified in the first place.[/QUOTE] You're absolutely right, but in reality it doesn't matter. What really, truly matters is the opinion of the six individuals sitting in the jurors box in that court room. Which means that if they even somewhat doubt that Mr. Zimmerman was the aggressor and even slightly think he was justified, he'll walk because the prosecution failed to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Mr. Zimmerman was malicious in thought.

Can't wait to see Zimmerman walk free. This whole debacle has been overblown and Trayvon's death did not deserve the attention it received. I can understand the initial sensitivities the shooting brought, but if you look past the surface of this its clear that Zimmerman acted in self-defense and shot this punk dead while he was bashing his head against concrete. If people were going to be outraged over unjustified shootings, they should have been outraged when that Texas man shot an escort to death for refusing to have sex with him, or the man who shot his neighbor to death for playing his music too loud. In both cases the killers got off free. In this circumstance it was just a thug foolishly misjudging the consequences of beating a grown man up, unlike the minors Trayvon was used to beating up. And yes, Trayvon was a thug. He was suspended multiple times from school, kicked out of his mother's house, boasted about the many times he beat people up, and he conversed with a friend about obtaining/selling firearms. [img]http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/130523170713-02-trayvon-0523-horizontal-gallery.jpg[/img] [quote]"So you just turning into a lil hoodlum," the person with whom he is texting says. "Naw, I'm a gangsta," the text message read. In other messages, text message exchanges appear to be discussing guns. "U wanna share a .380 w/ (blacked out)," one text message sent from Martin's phone reads.[/quote] [quote][b]Fighting[/b] On Nov. 21, 2011, Martin is talking with someone about a fight outside of school, saying, “naw we thumped afta skool in a duckd off spot." Martin boasts, "i lost da 1st round :) but i won da 2nd nd 3rd......" The unidentified person responds, "Damee well at least yu wonn lol but yuu needa stop fightinqq bae Forreal." Martin replies, "naw im not done with fool...... he gone hav 2 see me a again." In another exchange on Nov. 22, 2011, he discusses losing the first round, saying, "Yea cause he got mo hits cause in da 1st round he had me on da ground nd i couldnt do ntn." On Jan. 6, 2012, he tells a friend he got put in detention for watching a fight and the teacher accused him of hitting someone. He talks about another fight outside of the school on Feb. 12, 2012, saying, "duh way I fight nd dug golds I had last year." His friend remarks that Martin has been fighting a lot, stating "u b fightn...yeah a lot."[/quote] [quote] [b]Guns[/b] There is a conversation on Feb. 21, 2012, in which Martin makes references to a .38 caliber pistol and a .380 revolver. It appears he is having a discussion about selling the gun to at least two people, but the exchange is convoluted.[/quote] [url]http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/05/23/trayvon-martin-texted-about-fighting-marijuana-and-guns[/url] Funny how 3 months before the shooting, one of his friends already knew what fate his ways would bring unto him when he told him "Don't get one planted in ya chest".

CNN just out foxed Fox. [IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BN4fLYUCMAIQ5B2.jpg[/IMG] Except the witness said the dark skinned fellow was doing the punching. That fucking bias should really open peoples eyes, but wont.

[QUOTE=benwaddi;41242888]CNN just out foxed Fox. [IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BN4fLYUCMAIQ5B2.jpg[/IMG] Except the witness said the dark skinned fellow was doing the punching. That fucking bias should really open peoples eyes, but wont.[/QUOTE] Holy fucking shit that is horrible. I knew CNN was bad, but really?

Whichever way it goes, Zimmerman should sue a few media companies for slander and warping facts to make him look bad.

[QUOTE=benwaddi;41242888]CNN just out foxed Fox. [IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BN4fLYUCMAIQ5B2.jpg[/IMG] Except the witness said the dark skinned fellow was doing the punching. That fucking bias should really open peoples eyes, but wont.[/QUOTE] Their credibility: In my trash bin.

[QUOTE=benwaddi;41242888]CNN just out foxed Fox. [IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BN4fLYUCMAIQ5B2.jpg[/IMG] Except the witness said the dark skinned fellow was doing the punching. That fucking bias should really open peoples eyes, but wont.[/QUOTE] I've grown used to twisting words and photo editing from the media, no matter what their affiliation is but this is just on another level. A complete and blatant lie, I'm really hoping this is just a terrible mistake on CNN's part. How low can you go..

[QUOTE=DuCT;41242981]Holy fucking shit that is horrible. I knew CNN was bad, but really?[/QUOTE] They where doing specials on racism a week or two after the shootings. It's nothing new

[QUOTE=acds;41243034]Whichever way it goes, Zimmerman should sue a few media companies for slander and warping facts to make him look bad.[/QUOTE] [URL="http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/06/us/florida-zimmerman-nbc-lawsuit"]He already is.[/URL]

[QUOTE=benwaddi;41242888]CNN just out foxed Fox. [IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BN4fLYUCMAIQ5B2.jpg[/IMG] Except the witness said the dark skinned fellow was doing the punching. That fucking bias should really open peoples eyes, but wont.[/QUOTE] Honestly, this whole thing has been a media shitstorm from the get go. I don't think the police should trust the media to handle new stories about crime until they're confident they have all the proper facts about what went down.

It's not really surprising of CNN considering they wrote articles in the past praising Martin because "he liked music like any other kid". The networks write and edit their headlines and articles and over sensationalize them like that not because they believe in whatever things but only and only because to increase their ratings. If I shot someone in self defense and a network made me out to be as a racial profiling cold blooded killer, you'd bet I would sue because I would be afraid for my life from the misinformed public.

rodney king v2?

[video=youtube;p7HVyBO5260]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7HVyBO5260[/video] This man sums it all up exactly the way I feel.

[QUOTE=entertainer89;41244692][video=youtube;p7HVyBO5260]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7HVyBO5260[/video] This man sums it all up exactly the way I feel.[/QUOTE] I fucking love how the reflection of the light on his glasses makes it look like he has one, tiny, solid white pupil that's constantly staring at the screen through his black sunglasses. He has some great points but that part was what stood out the most for me.

[QUOTE=Lamar;41242043] Can't wait to see Zimmerman walk free. This whole debacle has been overblown and Trayvon's death did not deserve the attention it received. I can understand the initial sensitivities the shooting brought, but if you look past the surface of this its clear that Zimmerman acted in self-defense and shot this punk dead while he was bashing his head against concrete. If people were going to be outraged over unjustified shootings, they should have been outraged when that Texas man shot an escort to death for refusing to have sex with him, or the man who shot his neighbor to death for playing his music too loud. In both cases the killers got off free. [/QUOTE] People were outraged by those shootings, just less so than the Zimmerman one because the Zimmerman-Martin shooting was initially going to not even be investigated, which is a massive red flag. Even defenders like yourself have to realize that when someone is shot in the street there needs to atleast be an investigation to see what happened. This is part of the reason why it's such a hot item for reporters; it was one of the few times actual journalism happened in the US and it embarrassed the Sanford Police into maybe thinking "Oh hey a black teenager was shot to death, maybe we should look into that". For the record though, I wouldn't at all mind more reporting about the shooting death of that escort. Pretty messed up, that dude just straight killed someone who was driving away. As to your defense, I'm still on the side of neutrality so I'm willing to believe either individual started the confrontation, but I have to wonder why Martins character is being so heavily analyzed and broken down. I was a truant in school and said dumb shit over the internet too. Does that make my being shot to death somehow more justified than if I was a perfect attendance student who was a teenager but didn't say dumb shit? The fighting is the same way. He is a teenager. Teenagers fight. It shouldn't be encouraged, and I'm not defending his behavior, but it's something that happens across the country nearly everywhere. He wasn't even shot because of any of these things but because he was acting "suspicious", a charge I have yet to see reasonably defended. Now my qualms with attacking Martins character doesn't necessarily mean I believe Zimmerman started the altercation, and I certainly don't think Zimmerman is guilty of second degree murder considering he called the police to report his victim minutes before the shooting. I just don't think all the things you mentioned make Martin guilty of assaulting Zimmerman to the point where self-defense with a gun was the only way out for Zimmerman. [editline]29th June 2013[/editline] as for "omg media bias", Fox News has been in Zimmermans corner since day one. CNN is incompetent and sensationalist but nowhere near as effective as generating a fanatical base as Fox is. Not defending CNN, but it cuts both ways, and a lot of conservative blogs and outlets are looking at this as a potential political victory.