Zimmerman trial: Neighbor testifies Trayvon Martin was straddling Zimmerman moments before fatal gun - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Neo Kabuto;41228778]Then it's a real shame that for the prosecution, character evidence is inadmissible in a criminal trial unless the defense has "opened the door" to it. Besides, following someone looking suspicious when told not to doesn't imply he would also just shoot the guy.[/QUOTE] A black kid walking down the street at night only "looks suspicious" if you're a racist. [editline]28th June 2013[/editline] I will also accept "dangerously paranoid" as an answer.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41228796]A black kid walking down the street at night only "looks suspicious" if you're a racist.[/QUOTE] (a black kid looking as though he is scoping out the houses, as if he is planning to rob them) (in a neighbourhood that had recently experienced a string of burglaries) (which stopped right after the shooting) but no, just cry "dass raciss!" and you won't have to provide an argument!

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41228766]Except for the fact that Zimmerman was not sitting in the driver's seat of his car when he shot Martin, because that is where he made the call.[/QUOTE] No he wasn't, he got out the car during the call.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41228796]A black kid walking down the street at night only "looks suspicious" if you're a racist.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Zimmerman 911 Call]Hey we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle, um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about.[/QUOTE] Unless you're trying to argue that all black kids are somehow immune to doing anything that would make them look suspicious, Zimmerman had other reasons to think he was up to something. EDIT: Seriously, trying to paint Zimmerman as a violent racist isn't going to work unless you have more proof than "he thought someone was suspicious, and they were black".

[video=youtube;PX1sxARNq_c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX1sxARNq_c[/video] That should clear up any confusion about Zimmerman's story. It explains everything as it happened and he explains how the gun was used.

[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;41228842](a black kid looking as though he is scoping out the houses, as if he is planning to rob them)[/QUOTE] - quote nobody but Zimmerman himself [QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;41228842](in a neighbourhood that had recently experienced a string of burglaries)[/QUOTE] It's America. Houses get burglarized all the time. You'd have difficulty finding a neighborhood that hasn't had at least one recent burglary. [QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;41228842](which stopped right after the shooting)[/QUOTE] ok now you're just inventing new crazy bullshit [QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;41228842]but no, just cry "dass raciss!" and you won't have to provide an argument![/QUOTE] cool, let's also be racist while telling everyone how not racist everything is. Those black people sure do talk funny. They pronounce "that" as "dass". I learned this on the internet.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41228796]A black kid walking down the street at night only "looks suspicious" if you're a racist. [editline]28th June 2013[/editline] I will also accept "dangerously paranoid" as an answer.[/QUOTE] Congratulations man! You went on with 11 posts before bringing up any accusations of racism, you held out a lot better than I originally imagined.

[QUOTE=benwaddi;41228865] That should clear up any confusion about Zimmerman's story. It explains everything as it happened and he explains how the gun was used.[/QUOTE] And we should just take his word for it?

hey guys, remember back when the shooting happened and the entire SH subforum was in arms about bigoted racist southerner scum? :v:

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41228894]- quote nobody but Zimmerman himself[/QUOTE] So, Zimmerman's own word about why he thought Trayvon looked suspicious isn't good enough? Is there someone who could know what he thought better than himself? [QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41228894] It's America. Houses get burglarized all the time. You'd have difficulty finding a neighborhood that hasn't had at least one recent burglary.[/QUOTE] One burglary is not a "string", especially in a gated community. [QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41228894] ok now you're just inventing new crazy bullshit[/QUOTE] It may be true, but if it's related, it's probably because of the police attention in the area.

[QUOTE=Lamar;41228910]Congratulations man! You went on with 11 posts before bringing up any accusations of racism, you held out a lot better than I originally imagined.[/QUOTE] It's really really really really funny how I'm apparently not allowed to say that racism exists. "Sigma, don't you know that all racism died in 1960 when MLK beat Strom Thurmond in a no-holds barred ladder match in front of the Lincoln Memorial? Racism doesn't exist anymore."

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41228914]And we should just take his word for it?[/QUOTE] Who else's word do we have to go off? The burden of proof is on those claiming he is lying and so far nothing has dis-proven him.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41228894]- quote nobody but Zimmerman himself It's America. Houses get burglarized all the time. You'd have difficulty finding a neighborhood that hasn't had at least one recent burglary. ok now you're just inventing new crazy bullshit cool, let's also be racist while telling everyone how not racist everything is. Those black people sure do talk funny. They pronounce "that" as "dass". I learned this on the internet.[/QUOTE] is your defense really just "well he can't be suspicious because he's black!!" a suspicious person is suspicious, regardless of skin color. I'm sorry to inform you that all fingers point to Martin being a potential criminal. I guess black people can't be criminals in your world without it being horribly racist, though.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41228948]It's really really really really funny how I'm apparently not allowed to say that racism exists. "Sigma, don't you know that all racism died in 1960 when MLK beat Strom Thurmond in a no-holds barred ladder match in front of the Lincoln Memorial? Racism doesn't exist anymore."[/QUOTE] "Sigma, don't you know there is nothing to suggest racism was involved in this case"

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41228948]It's really really really really funny how I'm apparently not allowed to say that racism exists. "Sigma, don't you know that all racism died in 1960 when MLK beat Strom Thurmond in a no-holds barred ladder match in front of the Lincoln Memorial? Racism doesn't exist anymore."[/QUOTE] No one is saying that. Please argue with what people said, not what you want to pretend they said, or just stop. We're all saying that you can't just accuse Zimmerman of racism without any proof other than "he thought a black kid was suspicious".

[QUOTE=Neo Kabuto;41228937]So, Zimmerman's own word about why he thought Trayvon looked suspicious isn't good enough? Is there someone who could know what he thought better than himself? [/QUOTE] Well considering the fact that he's on trial for murder maybe she should just cast the slightest bit of suspicion over what he has to say. Just a tiny little bit is all. Being on trial for murder doesn't automatically make you a liar but it certainly gives you a good incentive to lie (especially if you're guilty, as some accused murderers are).

[QUOTE=Neo Kabuto;41228937]So, Zimmerman's own word about why he thought Trayvon looked suspicious isn't good enough? Is there someone who could know what he thought better than himself.[/QUOTE] The point isn't really whether or not he thought he looked suspicious, that much is obvious. You can think someone looks suspicious erroneously, and the question is, can we objectively say "he looked suspicious"? [editline]28th June 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=benwaddi;41228965]Who else's word do we have to go off? The burden of proof is on those claiming he is lying and so far nothing has dis-proven him.[/QUOTE] No, the burden of proof is on the person making the assertion. If you say "he looked like he was on drugs" or "he looks like he's casing houses for burglary", you have to support that somehow.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41228948]It's really really really really funny how I'm apparently not allowed to say that racism exists. "Sigma, don't you know that all racism died in 1960 when MLK beat Strom Thurmond in a no-holds barred ladder match in front of the Lincoln Memorial? Racism doesn't exist anymore."[/QUOTE] Ah yes, I remember the case of the Jewish man in Russia. It reminds me of this. Convicted for apparently killing a small boy, the prosecution had absolutely no evidence. So, they tried their best to match the number of wounds in part of the body to a number used in Evil Jewish rituals, which was 13. This collapsed when it was discovered there was actually 14 wounds. The prosecution then used a series of non-arguments to try and claim that he murdered the boy. The man was acquitted later due to lack of evidence.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41228982]Well considering the fact that he's on trial for murder maybe she should just cast the slightest bit of suspicion over what he has to say. Just a tiny little bit is all. Being on trial for murder doesn't automatically make you a liar but it certainly gives you a good incentive to lie (especially if you're guilty, as some accused murderers are).[/QUOTE] He lied during the 911 call, before the shooting, now? If he said it after he killed Trayvon I would agree, but unless you have some proof that he was lying, why should we doubt him? It wouldn't change anything other than your theory that Zimmerman is racist. Racist or not, it wouldn't change who attacked who first, or which one of them would actually be able to claim self-defense. [QUOTE=Megafan;41228987]The point isn't really whether or not he thought he looked suspicious, that much is obvious. You can think someone looks suspicious erroneously, and the question is, can we objectively say "he looked suspicious"?[/QUOTE] Unless there's a video of Trayvon walking down that street, we'll never know for sure. All we really have is the 911 call, which just proves Zimmerman thought he looked suspicious. What would that matter, though? I was responding to his claim that Zimmerman only attacked him because he's black, which we have no evidence for.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41228948]It's really really really really funny how I'm apparently not allowed to say that racism exists. "Sigma, don't you know that all racism died in 1960 when MLK beat Strom Thurmond in a no-holds barred ladder match in front of the Lincoln Memorial? Racism doesn't exist anymore."[/QUOTE] He's not saying that racism doesn't exist, he's saying that race wasn't the primary motivation to call the police. I work in armed security and loss prevention. Would it be racist for me to keep an eye on a black male whose wearing a bunch of baggy cloths? Sure, if it wasn't for the fact that a large amount of would be shoplifters use baggy cloths to try and hide shit. Same thing goes here. If your neighborhood just had a string of robberies/crime/whatever you're going to be looking at people who would fit that category. A lone individual out at night wearing dark clothing and a hoodie would fit that bill. It has nothing to do with the color of his skin.

[QUOTE=BusterBluth;41228974]"Sigma, don't you know there is nothing to suggest racism was involved in this case"[/QUOTE] In the absence of "evidence" (of which there is very little in this case) it is acceptable to try to divine the answers to difficulty questions using pure logical deduction. Q: Why did Zimmerman think a black teenager walking down the street was suspicious in-and-of-itself? The only range of possible answers I can see here are A: He was racist B: He thinks [i]everybody is equally suspicious[/i] B doesn't seem very likely because I can't find any sources that say that he has a history of confronting literally everybody he ever saw walking through his neighborhood, just this one black teenager. hmmmmmmmmm [editline]28th June 2013[/editline] if I missed any other possibilities like "he was drunk" and "he was under a hedge witch's spell" make sure to let me know

This doesn't mean anything but then again US's justice system (and their gun laws) is a fuckin joke. How do you guys know zimmerman didn't confront martin and started a fight with him and martin still managed to win the fight and when zimmerman was getting his ass handed to him, after starting the fight, he pulled out a gun and just shot him?

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41228948]It's really really really really funny how I'm apparently not allowed to say that racism exists.[/QUOTE] nobody ever said that, please put your strawman away my point was that your response to all reasons given as to why zimmerman could have been innocent is "but zimmerman was racist!" there's racism and then there's excuses

What's the point of this continued argument? We weren't there & we don't know all the facts. There's no way we can know exactly what each individuals intentions and thoughts were that lead up to the moment. Insinuating things with "logical deduction" makes no sense when all the evidence has yet to come forward. All you can do is keep up with the trial and wait for a result.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41229073]In the absence of "evidence" (of which there is very little in this case) it is acceptable to try to divine the answers to difficulty questions using pure logical deduction. Q: Why did Zimmerman think a black teenager walking down the street was suspicious in-and-of-itself? The only range of possible answers I can see here are A: He was racist B: He thinks [i]everybody is equally suspicious[/i] B doesn't seem very likely because I can't find any sources that say that he has a history of confronting literally everybody he ever saw walking through his neighborhood, just this one black teenager. hmmmmmmmmm [editline]28th June 2013[/editline] if I missed any other possibilities like "he was drunk" and "he was under a hedge witch's spell" make sure to let me know[/QUOTE] Recent string of thefts, Lone male wearing dark cloths and a hoodie at night. If your car had been broken into as well as your neighbors vehicles within a short period of time don't tell me that seeing a lone guy wearing dark cloths and a hoodie at night wouldn't make you somewhat suspicious.

Zimmerman had no reason to follow and confront martin in the first place.

[QUOTE=aydin690;41229108]This doesn't mean anything but then again US's justice system (and their gun laws) is a fuckin joke. How do you guys know zimmerman didn't confront martin and started a fight with him and martin still managed to win the fight and when zimmerman was getting his ass handed to him, after starting the fight, he pulled out a gun and just shot him?[/QUOTE] Zimmerman's a cheater!!!

[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;41229140]Recent string of thefts, Lone male wearing dark cloths and a hoodie at night. If your car had been broken into as well as your neighbors vehicles within a short period of time don't tell me that seeing a lone guy wearing dark cloths and a hoodie at night wouldn't make you somewhat suspicious.[/QUOTE] Let's just shoot everybody wearing a hoodie. [editline]28th June 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=timman;41229147]Zimmerman's a cheater!!![/QUOTE] A murderer that's gonna walk.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41229073]In the absence of "evidence" (of which there is very little in this case) it is acceptable to try to divine the answers to difficulty questions using pure logical deduction. Q: Why did Zimmerman think a black teenager walking down the street was suspicious in-and-of-itself? The only range of possible answers I can see here are A: He was racist B: He thinks [i]everybody is equally suspicious[/i][/quote] WHAT? how about the answer that [I]zimmerman actually gave to the police dispatcher[/I], namely: - there had been a string of break-ins in the area - trayvon was outside, at night, in the rain, wandering around the houses (on the muddy grass I might add), looking as though he is scoping them out, and not otherwise trying to reach a destination or find shelter from the rain do i literally have to explain how induction works

[QUOTE=aydin690;41229108]This doesn't mean anything but then again US's justice system (and their gun laws) is a fuckin joke. How do you guys know zimmerman didn't confront martin and started a fight with him and martin still managed to win the fight and when zimmerman was getting his ass handed to him, after starting the fight, he pulled out a gun and just shot him?[/QUOTE] Why would Zimmerman commit assault/battery on Trayvon while the police were on their way?