Zimmerman trial: Neighbor testifies Trayvon Martin was straddling Zimmerman moments before fatal gun - Polidicks

How do we not know otherwise? None of us was there. How does this make the system a joke? Are you suggesting we just assume then?

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41229073]In the absence of "evidence" (of which there is very little in this case) it is acceptable to try to divine the answers to difficulty questions using pure logical deduction. Q: Why did Zimmerman think a black teenager walking down the street was suspicious in-and-of-itself? The only range of possible answers I can see here are A: He was racist B: He thinks [i]everybody is equally suspicious[/i] [/QUOTE] If you're going to try playing Ace Attorney here (which would probably not actually prove it beyond a reasonable doubt, so...), you should at least avoid a false dichotomy. You're so devoted to painting Zimmerman as a racist that you ignore the whole possibility that Trayvon had actually done something to make himself look suspicious.

Zimmerman is going to win, evidence is in his favor. At this point the only logic that anyone can use to accuse Zimmerman of being guilty hinges on racism, which I don't feel is relevant at all, and is just a typical persecution complex.

[QUOTE=Lamar;41229169]Why would Zimmerman commit assault/battery on Trayvon while the police were on their way?[/QUOTE] Because he's gun totin trigger happy lunatic?

[QUOTE=aydin690;41229151]Let's just shoot everybody wearing a hoodie.[/QUOTE] There's a gigantic leap from "that guy looks suspicious" to "I'm gonna kill that guy".

[QUOTE=aydin690;41229185]Because he's gun totin trigger happy lunatic?[/QUOTE] You're a joke

[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;41229128]nobody ever said that, please put your strawman away [/QUOTE] Nobody had to say it, I figured it out on my own based on the fact that if anybody ever says the word "Racism" people suddenly start going "bweeeooooobweeeeeoooooo R-WORD DETECTED. ARGUMENT INVALIDATED"

[QUOTE=aydin690;41229185]Because he's gun totin trigger happy lunatic?[/QUOTE] according to his report (make of it what you will I guess), he didn't take out the gun until trayvon was on top of him and he didn't seek out to confront trayvon, he was first trying to find the address of where he was, then changed his mind and made to retreat back to his car, whereupon he encountered trayvon

[QUOTE=Siminov;41229215]You're a joke[/QUOTE] How is that less reasonable than "Martin punched the shit out of Zimmerman for no reason"?

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41229220]Nobody had to say it, I figured it out on my own based on the fact that if anybody ever says the word "Racism" people suddenly start going "bweeeooooobweeeeeoooooo R-WORD DETECTED. ARGUMENT INVALIDATED"[/QUOTE] Accusations of racism require evidence. Examples of evidence countering it are really hurting your case.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41229220]Nobody had to say it, I figured it out on my own based on the fact that if anybody ever says the word "Racism" people suddenly start going "bweeeooooobweeeeeoooooo R-WORD DETECTED. ARGUMENT INVALIDATED"[/QUOTE] i think these are warped imaginary versions of people that your mind has constructed to rationalize the fact that you're losing these arguments :) please don't project your persecution fantasies onto the forum, it's very rude

[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;41229221]according to his report (make of it what you will I guess), he didn't take out the gun until trayvon was on top of him [/QUOTE] I going to make very very little of that. I can't even make a sandwich out of that.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41229220]Nobody had to say it, I figured it out on my own based on the fact that if anybody ever says the word "Racism" people suddenly start going "bweeeooooobweeeeeoooooo R-WORD DETECTED. ARGUMENT INVALIDATED"[/QUOTE] Again, that's a huge leap in logic. Saying "there's no reason to think this guy is a racist" is nowhere near the same as "there's no reason to think anyone is racist".

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41229073]In the absence of "evidence" (of which there is very little in this case) it is acceptable to try to divine the answers to difficulty questions using pure logical deduction. Q: Why did Zimmerman think a black teenager walking down the street was suspicious in-and-of-itself? The only range of possible answers I can see here are A: He was racist B: He thinks [i]everybody is equally suspicious[/i] B doesn't seem very likely because I can't find any sources that say that he has a history of confronting literally everybody he ever saw walking through his neighborhood, just this one black teenager. hmmmmmmmmm [editline]28th June 2013[/editline] if I missed any other possibilities like "he was drunk" and "he was under a hedge witch's spell" make sure to let me know[/QUOTE] Has the thought ever crossed your mind that Martin was actually acting suspicious in that moment? I'M not saying he did. But right away denying the possibility smells of trying to not be racist a little too hard, and swinging over to the opposite side.

[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;41229245]i think these are warped imaginary versions of people that your mind has constructed to rationalize the fact that you're losing these arguments :) please don't project your persecution fantasies onto the forum, it's very rude[/QUOTE] Persecution fantasies are at least a lot more palatable than your "all of America's cops are just 'Racial Realist'" fantasies

[QUOTE=aydin690;41229151]Let's just shoot everybody wearing a hoodie. [editline]28th June 2013[/editline] A murderer that's gonna walk.[/QUOTE] Yes, because Zimmerman got out of his car and shot him right off the bat. That's exactly how it went down. Zimmerman played it right for the most part. He called the cops first. He shouldn't have gotten out of his vehicle, but in the eyes of the law there was nothing wrong with that. The question is when the confrontation with Martin happened what cause the first punch to fly? Being followed by someone does not justify punching them. In fact in most states only 2 circumstances make hitting another individual legal: Either the other person threw a punch first, or they verbally threatened you to the point where you thought your well being was endangered. Regardless of whoever let the first punch fly however bringing someone to the ground and pummeling their face is beyond what is considered acceptable use of force. If it is true that this is what conspired and Martin had Zimmerman pinned and was pummeling his face, then the murder charges will drop. However, depending how the whole confrontation started Zimmerman can still possibly face felony charges for putting himself purposefully into a situation that got someone killed. The biggest deciding factor will be what caused the physical altercation in the first place.

Remember folks, stalking a black kid at night and ignoring 911 operaters orders to stop following, and provoke him into having a fistfight with you and shot him once you get your ass beat is called "self defense" Prove that this grown man was in a life threatening situation by some scrawny teenager then, if not he should be charged with manslaughter. Hopely this will stop whiteknight retards with a hero complex from starting shit. Also have any of you guys been in a fight before or what? His injuries were very minor, the head has alot of blood up there so those bloody pics of his heads are ALOT minor then they appear.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41229273]Persecution fantasies are at least a lot more palatable than your "all of America's cops are just 'Racial Realist'" fantasies[/QUOTE] You're the only one bringing in racism in this. If you weren't prejudiced yourself maybe you'd think of the possibility that it wasn't all due to race.

[QUOTE=Neo Kabuto;41229249]Again, that's a huge leap in logic. Saying "there's no reason to think this guy is a racist" is nowhere near the same as "there's no reason to think anyone is racist".[/QUOTE] There is a good reason to think he was racist though, that reason being that he apparently thought a black teenaged person is an inherently suspicious thing. There are only two adjectives there, "black" and "teenaged". As far as I see it, in the absence of further deduction, there's at least a 50 percent chance of him being racist, the other possibility that he just hates teenagers.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41229273]Persecution fantasies are at least a lot more palatable than your "all of America's cops are just 'Racial Realist'" fantasies[/QUOTE] so you're saying that american cops aren't racist? how does your argument work then? :3

Zimmerman will probably walk, but shouldn't something be done about the fact that Zimmerman followed Trayvon Martin when the cops told him to fuck off about it?

[QUOTE=Megafan;41228987]No, the burden of proof is on the person making the assertion. If you say "he looked like he was on drugs" or "he looks like he's casing houses for burglary", you have to support that somehow.[/QUOTE] Observations made by Zimmerman, observations do not need burden of proof since they are subjective (plus made before the crime occurred so he is not changing stories). There are no differing viewpoints that clash with what Zimmerman has claimed so his is the default version of events. The burden of proof is on the prosecution and anyone trying to disclaim Zimmerman. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_burden_of_proof[/url]

Its amusing that the only racism that occurred during that night most likely only came out of Trayvon, when he referred to Zimmerman as a cracker and a nigger.

[QUOTE=Iago;41229311] Also have any of you guys been in a fight before or what? His injuries were very minor, the head has alot of blood up there so those bloody pics of his heads are ALOT minor then they appear.[/QUOTE] Minor? This isn't a movie, a single punch can easily kill someone you know. Cuts like that on the back of the head can easily cause concussions and internal bleeding, not to mention the broken nose is a lot more than a irritating bleeding, it can directly damage the brain.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41229316]There is a good reason to think he was racist though, that reason being that he apparently thought a black teenaged person is an inherently suspicious thing. There are only two adjectives there, "black" and "teenaged". As far as I see it, in the absence of further deduction, there's at least a 50 percent chance of him being racist, the other possibility that he just hates teenagers.[/QUOTE] There are two adjectives there only if you ignore the 911 call and the context of the incident.

[QUOTE=Iago;41229311]and provoke him into having a fistfight[/QUOTE] What exactly did he do to provoke him? I haven't followed the case much but it seems you have.

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;41229321]Zimmerman will probably walk, but shouldn't something be done about the fact that Zimmerman followed Trayvon Martin when the cops told him to fuck off about it?[/QUOTE] Legally there's nothing there. Following someone and talking to them isn't illegal. The cops told him not to follow because they didn't want him to endanger himself.

lol i know everybody is entitled to there opinion but after reading through this thread SigmaLambda should definitely consider shutting the fuck up. [editline]28th June 2013[/editline] like you're too retarded to even breathe how are you typing [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Flaming" - Megafan))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=Iago;41229311]Remember folks, stalking a black kid at night and ignoring 911 operaters orders to stop following, and provoke him into having a fistfight with you and shot him once you get your ass beat is called "self defense" Prove that this grown man was in a life threatening situation by some scrawny teenager then, if not he should be charged with manslaughter. Hopely this will stop whiteknight retards with a hero complex from starting shit. Also have any of you guys been in a fight before or what? His injuries were very minor, the head has alot of blood up there so those bloody pics of his heads are ALOT minor then they appear.[/QUOTE] Wrong, Martin was taller and stronger than Zimmerman, Martin also approached Zimmerman. [QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;41229321]Zimmerman will probably walk, but shouldn't something be done about the fact that Zimmerman followed Trayvon Martin when the cops told him to fuck off about it?[/QUOTE] The Sanford PD has rather slow response times, I understand why he did it.

I don't really give a shit how the fight ended, to me it's crystal clear that Zimmerman was the instigator, and deserved what he got for following Martin and picking a fight. Martin's only mistake, if any, was giving Zimmerman what he thought was an excuse to play Sheriff. Zimmerman started this shit, against every order by a 911 operator, and deserves to have the book thrown at him. If I follow someone, start a fight with them, then bitch out and claim self defense after I shoot them, I expect to go to jail for at least manslaughter, if not murder. Zimmerman should have walked the fuck away instead of trying to be a vigilante.