Zimmerman trial: Neighbor testifies Trayvon Martin was straddling Zimmerman moments before fatal gun - Polidicks

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;41229321]Zimmerman will probably walk, but shouldn't something be done about the fact that Zimmerman followed Trayvon Martin when the cops told him to fuck off about it?[/QUOTE] The dispatcher isn't an officer and can only advise, not order. While it can be argued that it was a bad idea to follow him, Zimmerman was not in any way bound to following the advice.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41229316]There is a good reason to think he was racist though, that reason being that he apparently thought a black teenaged person is an inherently suspicious thing. There are only two adjectives there, "black" and "teenaged". As far as I see it, in the absence of further deduction, there's at least a 50 percent chance of him being racist, the other possibility that he just hates teenagers.[/QUOTE] i love how so far you have completely failed to acknowledge zimmerman's accusations of trayvon's suspicious behavior like, I'd understand if you said that zimmerman was just lying about what trayvon was doing, or that he misinterpreted trayvon's behavior, or something like that. but it's like you haven't even registered the fact that zimmerman provided a reason for what he did, before, during, and after the event. likewise with his recounting of what happened that night, posted earlier. you can claim that he's lying. but you aren't even doing that. you're ignoring evidence.

[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;41229372]If I follow someone, start a fight with them, then bitch out and claim self defense after I shoot them, I expect to go to jail for at least manslaughter, if not murder.[/QUOTE] Can you prove Zimmerman [I]started[/I] a fight with Trayvon? That's the only way for someone to turn the case around.

[QUOTE=acds;41229379]The dispatcher isn't an officer and can only advise, not order. While it can be argued that it was a bad idea to follow him, Zimmerman was not in any way bound to following the advice.[/QUOTE] The fact that he would not follow that advice cast serious doubts on the quality of Zimmerman's judgement. Considering that the quality of Zimmerman's judgement is a huge part of this case (Zimmerman's judgement that Martin was suspicious, Zimmerman's decision to shoot Martin), Zimmerman's decision to ignore the dispatcher should be a pretty big black mark against Zimmerman's interpretation of events.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41229414]The fact that he would not follow that advice cast serious doubts on the quality of Zimmerman's judgement. Considering that the quality of Zimmerman's judgement is a huge part of this case (Zimmerman's judgement that Martin was suspicious, Zimmerman's decision to shoot Martin), Zimmerman's decision to ignore the dispatcher should be a fairly huge piece of evidence in this case.[/QUOTE] That's assuming he went directly to Martin and started talking to him, and not Martin going up to him. Getting out of the vehicle doesn't impart poor judgment.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41229414]The fact that he would not follow that advice cast serious doubts on the quality of Zimmerman's judgement. Considering that the quality of Zimmerman's judgement is a huge part of this case (Zimmerman's judgement that Martin was suspicious, Zimmerman's decision to shoot Martin), Zimmerman's decision to ignore the dispatcher should be a fairly huge piece of evidence in this case.[/QUOTE] And Martin's decision to beat the shit out of someone with a gun is any more reasonable than Zimmerman dismissing the advice of the dispatcher?

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41229414]Considering that the quality of Zimmerman's judgement is a huge part of this case (Zimmerman's judgement that Martin was suspicious, Zimmerman's decision to shoot Martin), Zimmerman's decision to ignore the dispatcher should be a pretty big black mark against Zimmerman's interpretation of events.[/QUOTE] The prosecution can't use it in court. Character evidence is not admissible by the prosecution unless the defense "opens the door" for it.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41229414]The fact that he would not follow that advice cast serious doubts on the quality of Zimmerman's judgement. Considering that the quality of Zimmerman's judgement is a huge part of this case (Zimmerman's judgement that Martin was suspicious, Zimmerman's decision to shoot Martin), Zimmerman's decision to ignore the dispatcher should be a fairly huge piece of evidence in this case.[/QUOTE] (according to zimmerman) he didn't disobey the dispatcher. at the time when the dispatcher said "don't follow him" (or words to that effect), zimmerman had already lost track of where trayvon was; he wasn't following him (or if their trajectories were parallel, zimmerman did not know this). he was attempting to find a signpost so that the dispatches would know where he was.

[QUOTE=Protocol7;41229444]And Martin's decision to beat the shit out of someone with a gun is any more reasonable than Zimmerman dismissing the advice of the dispatcher?[/QUOTE] If someone came at me with a gun I'd be fighting for my life too if I felt like I didn't have a way to escape.

Just to interject, we should stop talking as if we're certain that Zimmerman dismissed the dispatchers advice. Dispatcher: Are you following him? Zimmerman: Yeah Dispatcher: we don't need you to do that Zimmerman: [del]lolno I'm gonna shoot this kid[/del] ok [QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41229460]If someone came at me with a gun I'd be fighting for my life too if I felt like I didn't have a way to escape.[/QUOTE] Okay, I guess we forgot about the fact that its unproven that Zimmerman was chasing after Trayvon with a drawn weapon or even a visible weapon.

[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;41229449](according to zimmerman) he didn't disobey the dispatcher. at the time when the dispatcher said "don't follow him" (or words to that effect).[/QUOTE] It was "we don't need you to do that", which isn't an order at all.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41229460]If someone came at me with a gun I'd be fighting for my life too if I felt like I didn't have a way to escape.[/QUOTE] And yet you haven't proved that Zimmerman approached him with the gun drawn, and all accounts point to the fact that Zimmerman didn't have his gun drawn until Martin was slamming his head into the ground.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41229460]If someone came at me with a gun I'd be fighting for my life too if I felt like I didn't have a way to escape.[/QUOTE] Because you know without a doubt that's what Zimmerman did. You must have been there, you seem to know so much stuff that all the 3rd party sources we read didn't report on.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41229460]If someone came at me with a gun I'd be fighting for my life too if I felt like I didn't have a way to escape.[/QUOTE] Again, there's no evidence that Zimmerman came at him brandishing his weapon. If you have proof of that, the case would be going a different direction.

[QUOTE=Protocol7;41229479]And yet you haven't proved that Zimmerman approached him with the gun drawn, and all accounts point to the fact that Zimmerman didn't have his gun drawn until Martin was slamming his head into the ground.[/QUOTE] From what I heard as well, Martin tried to grab the gun from Zimmerman's coat mid fight once he saw it.

Its like nobody on facepunch has been in a fight before or something. If you think zimmerman's use of a fucking gun in this case was justified please NEVER buy a gun.

[QUOTE=Protocol7;41229479]And yet you haven't proved that Zimmerman approached him with the gun drawn, and all accounts point to the fact that Zimmerman didn't have his gun drawn until Martin was slamming his head into the ground.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Neo Kabuto;41229493]Again, there's no evidence that Zimmerman came at him brandishing his weapon. If you have proof of that, the case would be going a different direction.[/QUOTE] THE ONLY ACCOUNT WE HAVE IS ZIMMERMANS which should be fairly fucking suspect considering the fact that ZIMMERMAN IS ON TRIAL FOR MUDER

[QUOTE=Iago;41229519]Its like nobody on facepunch has been in a fight before or something. If you think zimmerman's use of a fucking gun in this case was justified please NEVER buy a gun.[/QUOTE] I don't think you have been in one either because it's pretty fucking easy to severely wound someone by slamming their head on solid concrete a good few times.

[QUOTE=Iago;41229519]Its like nobody on facepunch has been in a fight before or something. If you think zimmerman's use of a fucking gun in this case was justified please NEVER buy a gun.[/QUOTE] Getting your face pummeled and head bashed into the concrete seems like the kind of situation you want to end fast

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41229533]THE ONLY ACCOUNT WE HAVE IS ZIMMERMANS which should be fairly fucking suspect considering the fact that ZIMMERMAN IS ON TRIAL FOR MUDER[/QUOTE] It should! But when there's no account in favor of the prosecution whatsoever...

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41229460]If someone came at me with a gun I'd be fighting for my life too if I felt like I didn't have a way to escape.[/QUOTE] if the situation was as you describe then trayvon had many opportunities to escape. all the conditions favored him - it was dark and rainy, there were many places to hide (evidenced by the fact that zimmerman kept losing sight of trayvon) and zimmerman had no flashlight. he wouldnt have been able to hit the broad side of a barn, let alone a moving target.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41229533]THE ONLY ACCOUNT WE HAVE IS ZIMMERMANS which should be fairly fucking suspect considering the fact that ZIMMERMAN IS ON TRIAL FOR MUDER[/QUOTE] And this suddenly makes your assertion that he came at Martin with a gun more reliable? This is basically two street vendors trying to sell shit, each arguing that their own shit is better than the other's shit.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41229533]THE ONLY ACCOUNT WE HAVE IS ZIMMERMANS which should be fairly fucking suspect considering the fact that ZIMMERMAN IS ON TRIAL FOR MUDER[/QUOTE] there were numerous witnesses i mean yeah eyewitness accounts aren't the most reliable thing but to claim that zimmerman's testimony exists in a vacuum is ludicrous

[QUOTE=Iago;41229519]Its like nobody on facepunch has been in a fight before or something. If you think zimmerman's use of a fucking gun in this case was justified please NEVER buy a gun.[/QUOTE] uh if some random asshole is slamming my head in to the ground and I have a gun on me you bet I'm gonna use it to get the guy off of me. Most anyone would I'm sure. Then again, if you want to just hope he stops beating on you before your head is jelly on the concrete, that's your right I suppose.

[QUOTE=BusterBluth;41229540]Getting your face pummeled and head bashed into the concrete seems like the kind of situation you want to end fast[/QUOTE] You ain't got a right to end it with a fatal gunshot if you're the one who started it.

[QUOTE=benwaddi;41229334]Observations made by Zimmerman, observations do not need burden of proof since they are subjective (plus made before the crime occurred so he is not changing stories). There are no differing viewpoints that clash with what Zimmerman has claimed so his is the default version of events. The burden of proof is on the prosecution and anyone trying to disclaim Zimmerman. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_burden_of_proof[/url][/QUOTE] Well gee isn't it convenient for Zimmerman that the only guy who can tell the other side of the story is dead.

Everyone keeps bringing up racism but Zimmerman did not mention race until after he was asked to. [quote]We’ve had some break-ins in my neighborhood and there’s a real suspicious guy. It’s Retreat View Circle. The best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he’s up to no good or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around looking about. [00:25] 911 dispatcher: OK, is he White, Black, or Hispanic? Zimmerman: He looks black. 911 dispatcher: Did you see what he was wearing? Zimmerman: Yeah, a dark hoodie like a gray hoodie. He wore jeans or sweat pants and white tennis shoes. He’s here now … he’s just staring. [00:42] 911 dispatcher: He’s just walking around the area, the houses? OK. Zimmerman: Now he’s staring at me. [00:48] 911 dispatcher: OK, you said that’s 1111 Retreat View or 111? Zimmerman: That’s the clubhouse. 911 dispatcher: He’s near the clubhouse now? Zimmerman: Yeah, now he’s coming toward me. He’s got his hands in his waist band. And he’s a black male.[1:03][/quote] Standing or wandering around in the rain is kind of suspicious. Suspecting a person who is black is not the same as suspecting a person because they are black.

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;41229605]Well gee isn't it convenient for Zimmerman that the only guy who can tell the other side of the story is dead.[/QUOTE] Ya know, just ignore the witnesses and all.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41229602]You ain't got a right to end it with a fatal gunshot if you're the one who started it.[/QUOTE] (which you have [B]still[/B] not demonstrated, despite the evidence against it)

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41229602]You ain't got a right to end it with a fatal gunshot if you're the one who started it.[/QUOTE] Where is your proof that he started it? I am serious, I really want to see it, because right now your argument is on par with Zimmerman's on the basis that neither of them can be verified.