Federal judge bans racist pro-Israel subway advertisement - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Starpluck;43309355]Anything that has "freedom" or "defense" in the name is almost always the opposite. See here: American [B]Freedom [/B]Party, Israel [B]Defense[/B] Force.[/QUOTE] And for the sake of historical completeness, the german Freicorps.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;43309818]Why not public? So only popular opinions should be allowed?[/QUOTE] Or how about none at all.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;43309818]Why not public? So only popular opinions should be allowed?[/QUOTE] Because then it represents everyone and not everyone will agree to its beliefs. I don't agree with what that poster says and I don't want it posted in a public place representing me.

I don't see how it's racist (I've seen people on this site call jihadists and other religious fundamentalists 'primitive', 'savage', or 'backwards' plenty of times and nobody bats an eye, and the ad is pretty specific about who it's talking about with its 'defeat Jihad' tagline), but it's certainly disparaging towards a group so by the established rules it has to go. Stirring up shit with a public ad like that isn't a good idea in the first place.

[QUOTE=catbarf;43309933]I don't see how it's racist (I've seen people on this site call jihadists and other religious fundamentalists 'primitive', 'savage', or 'backwards' plenty of times and nobody bats an eye, and the ad is pretty specific about who it's talking about with its 'defeat Jihad' tagline), but it's certainly disparaging towards a group so by the established rules it has to go. Stirring up shit with a public ad like that isn't a good idea in the first place.[/QUOTE] Just because people elude being banned for racism here doesn't mean the same wording is condoned elsewhere in the world.

[QUOTE=catbarf;43309933]I don't see how it's racist (I've seen people on this site call jihadists and other religious fundamentalists 'primitive', 'savage', or 'backwards' plenty of times and nobody bats an eye, and the ad is pretty specific about who it's talking about with its 'defeat Jihad' tagline), but it's certainly disparaging towards a group so by the established rules it has to go. Stirring up shit with a public ad like that isn't a good idea in the first place.[/QUOTE] Jihad is Arabic for struggle. Nothing more, nothing less. It is used to refer to religious struggle yes but that is not its only meaning. Jihad can easily be applied to the struggle for freedom that the Palestinians desire. This ad pretty much brands anyone and everyone who opposes Israel as savages whether they are peaceful or not.

[QUOTE=catbarf;43309933]I don't see how it's racist (I've seen people on this site call jihadists and other religious fundamentalists 'primitive', 'savage', or 'backwards' plenty of times and nobody bats an eye, and the ad is pretty specific about who it's talking about with its 'defeat Jihad' tagline), but it's certainly disparaging towards a group so by the established rules it has to go. Stirring up shit with a public ad like that isn't a good idea in the first place.[/QUOTE] Because going by the original definition of Jihad in relation to Islam, all Muslims are technically Jihadists, as they all take part in some form of Jihad, or a "struggle in the way of Allah". [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihad[/url] Maybe racist isn't the best word to use here, but it still generalizes a large group of people as savages.

[QUOTE=Starpluck;43309355]Anything that has "freedom" or "defense" in the name is almost always the opposite. See here: American [B]Freedom [/B]Party, Israel [B]Defense[/B] Force.[/QUOTE] would there be an israel if that defense force didn't exist tho?

[QUOTE=Ezhik;43310055]would there be an israel if that defense force didn't exist tho?[/QUOTE] Yeah. This isn't the '60s anymore but that wasn't my point anyways. It's funny to see a 'defense' force that is so fixated on carrying out offense presently.

[QUOTE=Starpluck;43310142]Yeah. This isn't the '60s anymore but that wasn't my point anyways. It's funny to see a "defense" force to be so fixated on offensives presently.[/QUOTE] A lot of nations call their military administrations "Ministry/Department of Defense", I don't see what the big deal is that Israel does the same.

I wasn't quite sure what to expect coming into this thread but yup, that's racist as fuck

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;43310157]A lot of nations call their military administrations "Ministry/Department of Defense", I don't see what the big deal is that Israel does the same.[/QUOTE] It's not just a matter of naming their military as defense, but rather the doublespeak tactic Israel employs with how loosely they use 'defense' even when in direct contradiction. They are categorically known for stealing land/implementing settlements, carrying out consistent aggression and then, in every instance, claim it to be a matter of defense. The West Bank wall constructed under that pretext of security actually annexes 10% of future Palestinian land under the guise of defense. And in in cases where Israel's security conflicted with settlement expansion, Israel opted for the expansion,[URL="http://www.btselem.org/publications/summaries/200512_under_the_guise_of_security"] even at the expense of compromised security.[/URL] It is a pretty big deal when you parade yourself as acting merely all in defense, but would actually favor directly compromising that very "defense" in favor of stealing more land with a straight face. Israel consistently replicates this "defense" tactic in every other flagrant action they commit in order to justify its bullshit. "Why did you demolish Palestinian homes? For defense. Why did you steal land? For defense. Why do you remove Palestinian solar panels? For defense." Why did you unnecessarily annex 10% of Palestinian land? "For defense (actually compromised their defense, and they knew it before hand)"

[QUOTE]Officials ... rejected the ad in November on the basis that it violated the agency’s advertising guidelines, [B]which include rejecting advertisements that demean and disparage individuals and groups, promote alcohol or tobacco, and depict graphic violence.[/B] "The quote plaintiffs selected to express their message does not criticize 'savage' acts but instead contrasts [B]the state of Israel with the 'savages' who oppose or fight against it.[/B]"[/QUOTE] I believe this is what we call demonstrating the problem.

[QUOTE=mugofdoom;43309998]Because going by the original definition of Jihad in relation to Islam, all Muslims are technically Jihadists, as they all take part in some form of Jihad, or a "struggle in the way of Allah". [/QUOTE] If we're going by the original definition (as opposed to how it's commonly used in the West, since ironically comments like 'all Muslims are jihadists' are seen as inflammatory in the US), then that also includes non-Middle Eastern Muslims of all varieties, and also leaves out people from the Middle East who are not Muslim. That's identifying a religion, not a race or ethnicity, and I wouldn't call an ad labeling Christians as savages 'racist'. Offensive, yes, aggressive, yes, inappropriate, definite yes, but religious intolerance and racism aren't synonymous and can't be used interchangeably. [QUOTE=agentalexandre;43309989]This ad pretty much brands anyone and everyone who opposes Israel as savages whether they are peaceful or not.[/QUOTE] Perhaps, but I don't think 'anyone and everyone who opposes Israel' is a race either. I think this forum is just chock-full of white people who oppose Israel (myself included), so that's hardly a group specific to people of Middle Eastern descent. Make no mistake, I think it's a stupid ad and they were right to pull it, but I think some people are projecting their own assumptions onto a pretty sparse ad in calling it racist. It requires the assumption that 'jihad' is referring not just to extremist Muslims and not just to all people who practice Islam, and also that the ad is not referring to everyone who opposes Israel, but specifically to all Muslims of a Middle Eastern descent. Otherwise it's just plain ol' religious intolerance with a healthy dose of stupidity and xenophobia and that's a whole different can of worms. Not everything intolerant of a particular group is racism.

[QUOTE=catbarf;43310308]Make no mistake, I think it's a stupid ad and they were right to pull it, but I think some people are projecting their own assumptions onto a pretty sparse ad in calling it racist. It requires the assumption that 'jihad' is referring not just to extremist Muslims and not just to all people who practice Islam, but specifically to all Muslims of a Middle Eastern descent. Otherwise it's just plain ol' religious intolerance and that's a whole different can of worms.[/QUOTE] You can play dumb and act as if the buddies at SIOA didn't intend to make it racist or you can see it for what it is, drawing Israel's opposers (i.e. Arabs) as savages. The use of 'Jihad' in this ad is purposely ambiguous but to honestly expect shitstains like Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer to merely mean legitimate terrorists is foolish. [quote]The Southern Poverty Law Center named SIOA an anti-Muslim hate group in February 2011, saying that it is a "propaganda powerhouse" that [B]paints [U]moderate Muslims[/U] as radical terrorists.[/B][13][14] The Anti-Defamation League also lists it as a hate group, saying that it "promotes a conspiratorial anti-Muslim agenda [B]under the guise of fighting radical Islam[/B]" and "seeks to rouse public fears by consistently vilifying the Islamic faith and asserting the existence of an Islamic conspiracy to destroy 'American' values."[3][/quote] If this was any other group, possibly, but they have a history of promoting racism under the guise of fighting 'radical Islam' It's obvious they think Israel's moderate opponents are tantamount to bullshit like "Jihadists"

[QUOTE=Starpluck;43310352]You can play dumb and act as if the buddies at SIOA didn't intend to make it racist or you can see it for what it is, drawing Israel's opposes (i.e. Arabs) as savages.[/QUOTE] I didn't know much about ADMA/SIOA before reading this article, so I wasn't 'playing dumb', just going by what's in the ad, as someone who just sees it in the subway would. After doing a bit of research I can see that yeah, they're exactly the sort to paint with a broad brush and use racism as a rhetorical tactic. Not really surprised. I guess it's the difference between an ad saying 'Help eradicate vermin' being paid for by Orkin versus being paid for by neo-nazis. I didn't realize who these assholes were, so that's my mistake.

wow that is hilarious I wish they put it up all around native reservations and south africa too

[QUOTE=catbarf;43310517]I didn't know much about ADMA/SIOA before reading this article, so I wasn't 'playing dumb', just going by what's in the ad, as someone who just sees it in the subway would. After doing a bit of research I can see that yeah, they're exactly the sort to paint with a broad brush and use racism as a rhetorical tactic. Not really surprised. I guess it's the difference between an ad saying 'Help eradicate vermin' being paid for by Orkin versus being paid for by neo-nazis. I didn't realize who these assholes were, so that's my mistake.[/QUOTE] Fair enough, my bad for assuming.

I don't see it being racist specifically in this case at all. While the contrast between that of the "civilized man" being Israel, and the "savage" being that of Radical Islam doesn't seem that wrong to me in itself considering how savage the jihadists actually are, what bothers me is the allusion to the historical genocides and wars fought between western colonizers and tribes around the world in the previous two centuries. Following that Israel can be pretty savage themselves when it comes to people living in their own territory, I can see why people would be offended. Personally I'll support anything that combats religious extremism though - especially the worst kind of religious fanaticism, radical Islam. In the end though it's just wartime propaganda from a racist organization.

I saw this ad on the side of a bus in Portland once. Made me sick to my stomach. I believe Israel has the right to exist, but fuck Zionists, we shouldn't be constantly defending every terrible thing that they do. If people in Israel learned that their country would stop getting support if it kept up what it's doing, maybe they'd elect less extremist assholes to their government.

[QUOTE=Starpluck;43309259][IMG]http://c.o0bg.com/rf/image_371w/Boston/2011-2020/2013/11/07/BostonGlobe.com/Metro/Images/D.C.BusAd.jpg[/IMG] [/QUOTE] The irony is so thick that it can be used as a building material that can replace bricks.

[QUOTE=O Cheerios O;43316597]The irony is so thick that it can be used as a building material that can replace bricks.[/QUOTE] Careful, they'll take that irony and use it to build walls around Palestinian territory.

Support Jihad Defeat Israel [sp]I'm gonna get the NSA knocking at my door now, aren't I?[/sp]

[QUOTE=Paul McCartney;43309309]Wow that's an extremely ironic name. American Freedom Defense Initiative. They're not American, They're not for Freedom, and they're Offensive rather than defensive.[/QUOTE] But the real question is... is it an initiative?

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;43317258]Careful, they'll take that irony and use it to build walls around Palestinian territory.[/QUOTE] Pretty sure they already do that, except mixed with rebar'd concrete.

There was a big fuss made by the jewish community when a Palestine awareness poster was approved and posted in one of the Canada Line stations. [img]http://www.theprovince.com/cms/binary/8844912.jpg[/img] While it was up they had to replace it several times because it was either vandalized or stolen.

[QUOTE=pentium;43319455]There was a big fuss made by the jewish community when a Palestine awareness poster was approved and posted in one of the Canada Line stations. [img]http://www.theprovince.com/cms/binary/8844912.jpg[/img] While it was up they had to replace it several times because it was either vandalized or stolen.[/QUOTE] That is a bit less blatant and hyperbolic, though. If it had said "LAND STOLEN BY THE JEWISH IMPERIALISTS" or something it'd be more comparable.