[QUOTE=BAZ;37797668]Are you implying that all biological problems can be solved by taking the right drug?
If this is the case you surely are deluded.[/QUOTE]
He's saying psychological problems ARE biological problems.
[QUOTE=bull3tmagn3t;37797266]If I feel better because of a placebo, I don't care.[/QUOTE]
it's all in yourself you know, you just need to believe that you can overcome it
are you seriously [I]this [/I]blind?
this is because making pharmaceuticals costs a shitton of money. a drug going from the pre production phase to FDA approval cost billions of dollars, which means pharmaceutical companies can spend billions on a drug that never gets on the market.
my dad is spiderman so i dont need to wory
[QUOTE=Cushie;37797338]I dont think I'd ever take antidepressants and powerful drugs like that. They seem to have some absolutely horrible side effects and from what I have experienced dont even work that great on some people.[/QUOTE]
From personal experience when the meds you're given are not right for you the side effects are horrible.
I was given anxiety pills and instead of helping I was having borderline split personality issues while under the effects of the pills.
[QUOTE=BAZ;37797522]This is exactly the things drugs are NOT meant for.
These are all psychological symptoms, taking a pill and having them vanish is not going to happen. What needs to happen is YOU need to identify YOU have problems and YOU need to work on them through therapy and/or other means.
Drugs aren't magical potions, they don't fix broken bones.[/QUOTE]
I suffer from clinical depression, or bi-polar disorder depending on which way you think Manic Depressive Disorder got rolled in the latest Psychiatric Catalogue.
It is not a personal thing. It is a profound biological disorder. Other members of my family have similar disorders. No amount of "getting over it" or Freudian psychoanalysis will rectify the root cause of the issue. It is an arrogant claim to assert as much.
In someone who has a less stable life than mine, or a much more severe case, they could easily be imperiled by a "down cycle" and driven to extremes such as self injury or suicide.
You may try to cop out by saying "Ah yes, you're special, but Depression/Anxiety/OCD guy is obviously just a whack who needs to hug himself more often." That type of thinking creates demonstrably unsatisfactory and arbitrary lines in the sand. Psychologically geared drugs serve the purpose of treating psychological disorders. Regardless of their root, biochemical or intellectual.
You are correct. Drugs are not magic potions. They do not cure broken bones. There is not such a range of drugs to solve all biochemical maladies we face. However the field of pharmacopia is so robust that it can treat many symptoms, many disorders, many issues that cannot simply be "talked out" or which do not have the convienance of being "left to heal" in the case of the broken leg.
Or do you want me to break your bones and take away your painkillers? Because relying on painkillers is just deluded. Therapy and holistic practice can solve that.
Other than the standard vaccines I'd never used any medicine up until last month. Last month I used both painkillers and antibiotics for the first time because I was in a life-threatening situation. For most other things I have a deep distrust to the pharmaceutical industry and a firm belief that anything non-life-threatening or permanently damaging will make you stronger.
I think the best thing that can be done under our current legal/academic system would be to run more experiments outside of corporate labs. I want to call this practice of withholding unflattering results data manipulation.
I hope findings like these don't drive people away from immunizations and increase the overall level of distrust in modern medicine/scientific data too much.
Also, in this thread, laymen fight over their opinions on human psychology and psychopharmacology.
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;37797631]there is no distinction between "psychological problem" and "biological problem".[/QUOTE]
yes there are. There are extremely clear distinctions.
[QUOTE=TheBrokenHobo;37797165]Well I can say from experience that I've really lost trust in drugs.
For about 7 months now I've been put on tons of different drugs in order to treat all the fun things that are wrong with me. (Depression, anxiety, OCD to be specific)
Of all the drugs I've been put on none of them have really been very effective, and those that have been effective were negatively effective. They just made me worse.
I'm starting to lose count of how many I've been on and because of that whenever I get put on a new drug I just assume it won't work.
Mostly the side effects have been more apparent than the actual effects. Lethargy is really the main one. There's more even shittier side effects but I doubt any of you care to read a list of such things.
I always do my research on any med I'm put on. It's not fun to start taking a pill then to find out the company that manufactures the drug was sued for downplaying the side effects and ended up having to pay out millions.
But I guess the point of all of this is that I really think that any drug, especially those meant to treat mental health problems, should be put under a lot more careful testing. If not they're putting people's minds at risk and that's really not a good thing.[/QUOTE]
I've been in a similar boat. I've been on and off antidepressants since I was five. I just turned 24. Once I hit my teen years, I started noticing a cycle. The drugs would for a few months (except prozac. Fuck prozac), and then they'd stop working, but because of my size, any attempt to up the dosage would result in an overdose. Sadly, I'm having better luck trying to manage by myself than I ever did with medication.
I really think that doctors getting kickbacks to prescribe certain medications should be banned. The only thing that's happening is that the patient is being putting on medication that doesn't work just so the doctor can pad their pockets.
I take Sertraline for panic disorder. How fucked am I?
Yay greed at work
i only take well known drugs like nyquil, tylenol etc...
Having read Dr. Goldacre's book, most of the stuff he wrote in this article isn't much of a surprise, and I'm looking forward to his next one.
On the subject of medicine, my mum takes anti-depressants and anti-anxiety drugs, and they work wonders. She's happier, more social, more relaxed, less stressed. I'm not saying they will work for everyone, but they do work on some people.
I take warfarin myself, but since that's ancient in terms of medication and pretty clearly works and does its job I don't see any issue there. I also was put on a dose of an extremely powerful drug called Actilyse in hospital which literally saved my life, despite having some fairly horrendous side effects.
I'm not for taking medicine unnecessarily, but I don't understand people who don't take drugs when it's clear it would help them.
drugs can be pretty great if you're responsible and educated with them
Mental medication should be a last resort.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;37796818]I try not to take drugs when I'm feeling ill anyway. I'd rather my own immune system beat whatever bug I have if I can help it.[/QUOTE]
Tea and naps and tea and naps
[QUOTE=Appox;37798904]yes there are. There are extremely clear distinctions.[/QUOTE]
dualist detected
[QUOTE=Jo The Shmo;37799268]drugs can be pretty great if you're responsible and educated with them[/QUOTE]
I think most people expect drugs to just cure everything. Take the people who take SSRI's, i think alot of people expect it to be some magic drug that will just start making them happy all the time despite having no friends and feeling shit about themselves all the time. Taking prozac or something but continuing to be a shut-in nerd isn't going to fix anything however if people start actually start doing shit to avoid the depression to begin with like getting off the computer, finding a more social hobby than PC gaming or w/e the drugs can really help smooth things out once you get going and stop you from slipping back into it. I was always a social retard who was heavily depressed till i start taking anti-depressants started making an effort by putting on a fake smile and trying to not be such a moody cunt who no one wants to hang around with. A year later I didn't even choose to stop taking them, i just noticed one day i hadn't taken them for about 2 weeks purely because i didn't need them and stopped finding them necessary to be happy.
[QUOTE=meppers;37798959]i only take well known drugs like nyquil, tylenol etc...[/QUOTE]
well known =/= safe
[QUOTE=TheBrokenHobo;37797165]For about 7 months now I've been put on tons of different drugs in order to treat all the fun things that are wrong with me. (Depression, anxiety, OCD to be specific)
Of all the drugs I've been put on none of them have really been very effective, and those that have been effective were negatively effective. They just made me worse.[/QUOTE]
I know the feel bro. I have had insomnia since I was a kid and sleep does not come easily to me. Medication serves to only increase the feelings of depression and lethargy, so I took a different approach and found ways to work around it. Not perfect but I understand the pain.
[QUOTE=BAZ;37797522]This is exactly the things drugs are NOT meant for.
These are all psychological symptoms, taking a pill and having them vanish is not going to happen. What needs to happen is YOU need to identify YOU have problems and YOU need to work on them through therapy and/or other means.
Drugs aren't magical potions, they don't fix broken bones.[/QUOTE]
They aren't symptoms you dipshit, they are disorders. Big difference. "Therapy" isn't a catch-all solution that works for everyone: I went to sleep clinics and talked out just about everything that has ever happened to me with therapists and absolutely nothing was accomplished. I had to find my own solutions, which was a learning process that took years.
[QUOTE=SadisticGecko;37798940]I've been in a similar boat. I've been on and off antidepressants since I was five. I just turned 24. Once I hit my teen years, I started noticing a cycle. The drugs would for a few months (except prozac. Fuck prozac), and then they'd stop working, but because of my size, any attempt to up the dosage would result in an overdose. Sadly, I'm having better luck trying to manage by myself than I ever did with medication.
I really think that doctors getting kickbacks to prescribe certain medications should be banned. The only thing that's happening is that the patient is being putting on medication that doesn't work just so the doctor can pad their pockets.[/QUOTE]
If your drugs are working on cycles it could mean that you have SAD or bi-polar disorder as opposed to regular depression. Not a diagnosis but a good thing to keep in mind, as my family doctor made the same mistake for my sisters (giving anti-depressants for bi-polar disorder, which doesn't work very well)
Prescribing a pill or medicine for every little ailment or what have you is extremely foolish, since I know a few people who fucked over their immune system because they were given anti-biotics for every little sneeze or cough they had.
The only drugs I take on a regular basis are Vyvanse(I hyper focus bad to the point where I'll forget to drink/eat for a day+) though I am weaning off it. I also take Amitriptyline for nerve pain (chronic pain due to stupid nerves and some other stuff) and the occasional pain killer.
There was a TED talk with this doctor that discovered the drug company was hiding the negative results in publications. Don't remember the name.
The amount of misinformed people and tinfoil hats in this thread I mind blowing.
[QUOTE=BAZ;37797522]This is exactly the things drugs are NOT meant for.
These are all psychological symptoms, taking a pill and having them vanish is not going to happen. What needs to happen is YOU need to identify YOU have problems and YOU need to work on them through therapy and/or other means.
Drugs aren't magical potions, they don't fix broken bones.[/QUOTE]
Psychological drugs should be administered to give you space away from your anxiety/depression/OCD so that you have some mental clarity and can more easily, through therapy, learn to deal with the problem. So then, when you come off the drugs as recommended by your therapist, you will be more able to deal with the problems.
It's like taking a man out of a combat-zone to give him training in a 'safe' environment. You then put him back into the 'dangerous' environment and he's better equipped to deal with it.
I'm really against the notion of getting on anti-depressants/-anxiety drugs as a permanent solution.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;37796818]I try not to take drugs when I'm feeling ill anyway. I'd rather my own immune system beat whatever bug I have if I can help it.[/QUOTE]
Like a true libertarian... :v:
[QUOTE=Madman_Andre;37802891]Like a true libertarian... :v:[/QUOTE]
You don't have to be a libertarian to dislike unnecessary use of medicine
[QUOTE=BAZ;37797522]This is exactly the things drugs are NOT meant for.
These are all psychological symptoms, taking a pill and having them vanish is not going to happen. What needs to happen is YOU need to identify YOU have problems and YOU need to work on them through therapy and/or other means.
Drugs aren't magical potions, they don't fix broken bones.[/QUOTE]
Psst you're a retard who knows nothing about his situation and is making a large assumption that his situation is purely psychological. Do you know this for a fact or are you just talking out your ass? (rhetorical question, it's the latter)
For all you know his problems could be hormonal and then that is a case where it definitely can be fixed by drug administration.
[QUOTE=Madman_Andre;37802891]Like a true libertarian... :v:[/QUOTE]
It's really not a good idea to use drugs for every little infection though.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;37796818]I try not to take drugs when I'm feeling ill anyway. I'd rather my own immune system beat whatever bug I have if I can help it.[/QUOTE]
this mindset is incredibly endangering, and you should feel horrible for saying it. if the doctor says 'you have the flu/a cold, take these weak antibiotics' then yeah, maybe don't take them. but jesus, if it's strep, or an ear infection? you could potentially contract a fatal disease, or have permanent hearing damage.
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