A woman who wanted to save ducks faces 14 years in prison for causing death of two motorcyclist. - Polidicks

i dunno about imaginary world but the real world has proven again and again that deterrence doesn't work in the justice system [editline]22nd June 2014[/editline] and the idea of destroying a young womans life to deter other people from stopping to save ducks seems ridiculous

I've seen this exact thing happen with big trucks stalled and congesting an entire lane. People don't see the vehicle until they switch lanes to pass and then it's too late to stop.

The ducks are at fault for walking in the road

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;45182324]i dunno about imaginary world but the real world has proven again and again that deterrence doesn't work in the justice system[/QUOTE] Okay show me the proof then. This is hell of a claim to make that the fear of getting caught and punished ISN'T DOING ANYTHING. That's exactly what's stopping lots of people from dodging fares to stealing and fucking murder. [QUOTE=Lachz0r;45182324]and the idea of destroying a young womans life to deter other people from stopping to save ducks seems ridiculous[/QUOTE] Because it's not about deterring people from saving ducks, are you insane?

don't you have a "dead" lane in american highway?

all she needed was her licence revoked, community service and a fine not a fucking 14 year sentence she didn't intend on getting

People are saying "She didn't intend on it happening." Regardless of wether it was intentional or not, people died.

[QUOTE=RustledJimmys;45182544]People are saying "She didn't intend on it happening." Regardless of wether it was intentional or not, people died.[/QUOTE] Yes but this was purely accidental, manslaughter is what she's facing but when people are convicted of manslaughter its mostly because their actions meant to hurt the person not kill them In this instance the Woman never wanted anyone to die and was just trying to save some ducks, it's a little different I know everyone will pick the shit out of this comment but whatever

[QUOTE=fruxodaily;45182550]Yes but this was purely accidental, manslaughter is what she's facing but when people are convicted of manslaughter its mostly because their actions meant to hurt the person not kill them In this instance the Woman never wanted anyone to die and was just trying to save some ducks, it's a little different I know everyone will pick the shit out of this comment but whatever[/QUOTE] That puts it in a better light, sorry.

so that's 3 lives ended

Both are dumb, the motorbikers are pretty fucking dull if they can't notice a parked car. If the motorbikers were what a normal driver should be, they wouldn't be dead. or perhaps they were both blind in one eye?

Prison doesn't help anybody here. Put her on probation, give her a lifetime driving ban, and make her do community service to raise money for the family and charities. Regardless of what you think of her, putting her in jail is going to cost the taxpayer ~$30,000 a year while she could be put to some use in society.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;45181479]What happens if her car had broken down instead of her doing something stupid? What about the motorbike which was estimated at possibly almost 40km/h over the speed limit? It seems like a collision of two people doing stupid things, but I would've thought that the higher onus would be on the moving driver considering that if the car had stopped for a proper reason, like a break down, they still would've collided considering all facts were otherwise the same?[/QUOTE] What happens if her car happened to be hijacked by terrorists? What happens if those terrorists happen to be working for the CIA? What happens if those undercover terrorist turn out to be al qaeda 00 operatives under cover in the CIA? What if I told you there was an impending attack on America and the U.S. government was using ducks to cover it all up? Directed by M Night Shyamalan...

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;45181284]Not really. From what I am reading, the lady did not even wave off people or show them that see had a plan to pull over. She literally stopped dead in the middle of traffic, and began waving the ducks into her car. From this we also see the fact that the people infront of the motorcyclist were paying attention to the women, and the motorcyclist were not paying attention at all, and went full speed into the cars infront of them. It seems like all parties are at fault here, but the lady is the biggest idiot of them all.[/QUOTE] yeah, but how does putting her in jail for 14 (or even 7, if she does 50%) of her life help this not happen again in any way?

[QUOTE=ultra_bright;45182874]What happens if her car happened to be hijacked by terrorists? What happens if those terrorists happen to be working for the CIA? What happens if those undercover terrorist turn out to be al qaeda 00 operatives under cover in the CIA? What if I told you there was an impending attack on America and the U.S. government was using ducks to cover it all up?[/QUOTE] Funny, but I think you may have missed the point.

For the record, witnesses interviewed have also said she didn't have her hazard lights on. She literally just came to a stop in the passing lane with her door open to corral some ducks. I think that's where criminal negligence and all that comes into play. She wasn't charged with manslaughter, but criminal negligence causing death and dangerous driving causing death.

[QUOTE=Kinversulath;45183378]For the record, witnesses interviewed have also said she didn't have her hazard lights on. She literally just came to a stop in the passing lane with her door open to corral some ducks.[/QUOTE] That makes it sound like the motorcyclist ran into an open door, or tried to avoid it when they really just hit the car dear rear. [img]http://wpmedia.news.nationalpost.com/2014/06/emma-czornoba-car.jpg[/img] The speed the motorcycle must've been doing to do that much damage would've been ridiculous.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;45181479]What happens if her car had broken down instead of her doing something stupid?[/QUOTE] You pull over to the right hand margin if you possibly can. Otherwise you get far off the road on the left, as in outside of the safety margin and into the grass, and in some states you can still get fined for it (I was with a friend when his headgasket blew on the Mass Pike in gridlock traffic. He got a ticket because he went to the left. Fought it and won, but that's another story.) She stopped [i]in[/i] the left hand lane. That's so utterly stupid that she should have her drivers license revoked permanently regardless of anything else. You don't do that. Ever.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;45183397][B]That makes it sound like the motorcyclist ran into an open door, or tried to avoid it when they really just hit the car dear rear.[/B] [IMG]http://wpmedia.news.nationalpost.com/2014/06/emma-czornoba-car.jpg[/IMG] The speed the motorcycle must've been doing to do that much damage would've been ridiculous.[/QUOTE] How does anything I said make it sound like that? Also, the maximum you can get for dangerous driving causing death is life I believe. Criminal negligence has a maximum of 14 years. Also considering that we're talking about two motercycles going +100km/h hitting a stationary vehicle, that type of damage doesn't really surprise me at all. What amazes me is reading that she was surprised at the verdict. She legitimately felt that the jury was going to clear her. EDIT: Nevermind, dangerous driving is max 14 years, criminal negligence is max life.

[QUOTE=fruxodaily;45182550]Yes but this was purely accidental, manslaughter is what she's facing but when people are convicted of manslaughter its mostly because their actions meant to hurt the person not kill them In this instance the Woman never wanted anyone to die and was just trying to save some ducks, it's a little different I know everyone will pick the shit out of this comment but whatever[/QUOTE] Intent isn't necessarily required to charge someone for manslaughter, a gross amount of negligence can also qualify. She's mostly likely either being charged with involuntary manslaughter (Accidental but caused by your negligence) or constructive manslaughter (Still accidental but caused while you were breaking another law) I'm not familiar with US road laws so someone else can probably tell you which one.

She's an idiot but she didn't have any malicious intent, I'd say give her 4 years and take away her license forever.

She should have her license revoked for a decade or something, but not jailed, that's just ridiculous. There is also a measure of responsibility on the motorcyclists because you have to be aware and be defensive of people doing dumbass things like stopping on the road to 'help' ducks or look at deer with their children. Jailing doesn't right the wrong, but revoking her privileges of driving would keep this from happening again just the same as jail would.

While her intentions were angelic, the way she went about it was just pretty dumb. I promised myself that if I ever seen an animal crossing the street I'd attempt to help, but at least I'd be safe about it while waving down traffic and alerting people that I'm stopping. but, that said, as recently stated in this thread the motorcyclists seem at fault for speeding WAY over the speed limit and not paying an ounce of attention. I'd have given her maybe 3-5 years for involuntary manslaugter... Not 14 for the negligence of motorcyclists and environmental unawareness.

Surprised there was no shoulder to pull into, that sucks. I'm a wildlife rescuer myself and I often have to pull over to rescue various animals from the middle of motorways, but there is almost ALWAYS some kind of shoulder to pull over to. Even then, always have the hazards on because you just never know, and I keep warning triangles in my car at all times (EVERYONE should regardless of what you drive or where you drive, seriously) which I place nearby. I've never had someone yell or beep at me or anything for parking on a really tight shoulder either. In fact, people often pull over themselves to see if I need extra help or thank me for doing it. I'm guessing perhaps these people who died weren't paying as much attention to the road as they should have, regardless of what happened. The article doesn't seem to say if this happened during the day or night? Or if she was dead in the center of the lane or half off onto some kind of shoulder. These are all important questions I think. Just a shitty situation overall really, but personally, I wouldn't put this woman in jail because of it. Guilty of negligence? Technically. Deserving to rot in prison for it? No, I don't believe so. I can guarantee you she's already suffered and is still suffering enough emotional turmoil over this as anyone else. Being responsible for someone's death/s like that can sometimes totally break a person.

and to think, 2 people would be alive and she wouldn't be in prison if she had [I]just fucking pulled over[/I]. It's still illegal to pull into the median but at least it isn't [I]manslaughter.[/I] [editline]22nd June 2014[/editline] guess that was too much for her tiny brain to process though. "oh look ducks! better slam my fucking brakes on and not even put my hazard lights on either!"

She definitely exhibited negligence but 14 years is excessive. It isn't going to act as a deterrent because the whole point of negligence is that you didn't plan for things to happen that way. Suspending her license and having her do some kind of community service, like speaking in Drivers' Ed classes about what happened, would do everyone far more good.

[QUOTE=TheDecryptor;45181526]In this case they drove directly into a parked car, is adding a light to it going to make it any more visible? I'm assuming this happened during daytime though, if it was at night then obviously the situation is different.[/QUOTE] Of course it'll make it more visible! Think about it, which are you more likely to notice when you're driving? An immobile, possibly neutral colored car, or an immobile car with bright as fuck flashing lights on every side of it? Peoples' eyes miss all sorts of things. Anything that draws attention to an obstacle helps.

[QUOTE=RayvenQ;45181412]Depends where you hit the car, I hit a car on my bike once, missed the body of the car though. Even with protective gear, at those speeds, it's going to be brutal on you and still probably fatal. Also, I'm not sure how prevelant protective gear is in Canada (other than a helmet).[/QUOTE] Quebec's motorcycle laws only require a helmet, but protective gear is common and affordable, and other bikers will give you shit for not taking care of yourself. [QUOTE=TheDecryptor;45181481]And what was the speed limit on the highway? Over here 120km/h limits are relatively rare.[/QUOTE] So far I haven't seen a highway in Quebec that is over 100 km/h. 113 won't always get you a ticket, but it's definitely risky and if you're on a bike the cops are less likely to take it easy on you. Overall I'd have to say 14 years is ridiculous, because it doesn't help anyone. The wife of the man even said herself it won't fix anything, and I appreciate how practical she is being considering it all.

It's not about intent guys, by the sounds of thigns she parked her car on the highway which is illegal and then turned it off without leaving her blinkers on which is also highly illegal (under 70 blinkers are required in canada). She might not have had intent to kill them, but she broke multiple traffic laws that are in place to stop shit like this. She dould've pulled over onto the median in front of or behind the ducks and saved two lives, but she parked in the lane. the intent wasnt there, but negligence is negligence, at 14 years she'll get out on good behaviour pretty soon.

[QUOTE=A_Pigeon;45185817]It's not about intent guys, by the sounds of thigns she parked her car on the highway which is illegal and then turned it off without leaving her blinkers on which is also highly illegal (under 70 blinkers are required in canada). She might not have had intent to kill them, but she broke multiple traffic laws that are in place to stop shit like this. She dould've pulled over onto the median in front of or behind the ducks and saved two lives, but she parked in the lane. the intent wasnt there, but negligence is negligence, at 14 years she'll get out on good behaviour pretty soon.[/QUOTE] Another way to think about it is that running over ducks is not against the law in most cases, but stopping in the middle of the road with no shoulder is always against the law.