[QUOTE=SataniX;44736126]Neither would guns though.[/QUOTE]
Are you high or stupid?
If someone breaks into your place and you feel like your life is in danger of course you'd feel safer having a semi-auto 12 guage by your side, it gives you the freedom to choose between letting them rob your place or defend your life or home if it comes to it and gives you more control over the situation.
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;44736139]Are you high or stupid?
If someone breaks into your place and you feel like your life is in danger of course you'd feel safer having a semi-auto 12 guage by your side, it gives you the freedom to choose between letting them rob your place or defend your life or home if it comes to it and gives you more control over the situation.[/QUOTE]
When 'gang bangers' break into your house for whatever reason, I highly doubt you pulling a gun will help deescalate anything. Best case scenario, what happens? You single handedly murder every one of them?
[QUOTE=Masterofstars;44736161]When 'gang bangers' break into your house for whatever reason, I highly doubt you pulling a gun will help deescalate anything. Best case scenario, what happens? You single handedly murder every one of them?[/QUOTE]
Yes, you murder ever single innocent person, taking away their right to live and splattering their innocent brains all over your furniture.
And while pulling a gun on them isn't exactly meant to be a conversation starter, it's meant to be more of a last resort ''Im going to blow this poor lost souls head off'' device. Without the intent of intimidating anyone.
Remember, its up to YOU to kill the intruders in your home. So choose carefully.
I bet that to a lot of these hard anti-gun facepunchers it's inconceivable that someone in Europe would be interested in defending themselves with a firearm, or just have an interest in guns altogether. However, assuming that there are no gun enthusiasts in Europe is foolish, and I'm speaking from personal experience. And it's not like in the whole of Europe you are prohibited to carry a concealed gun.
[editline]6th May 2014[/editline]
The reason I'm saying this is because a lot of dumb people have a mentality of "guns are for Americans and only Americans like guns or would think to use them for protection". A lot of European people I talk to agree that having a gun in the house to protect from intruders is a good strategy.
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;44736182]And while pulling a gun on them isn't exactly meant to be a conversation starter, it's meant to be more of a last resort[/QUOTE]
If force isn't your last resort, you didn't use enough of it.
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;44732949]why would you compare america to the entirety of africa? hell, even the russia-america comparison isn't really that fair
[editline]6th May 2014[/editline]
russia has half the population of america, and like 10% of the amount of guns[/QUOTE]
I love your statistics, please share your numbers!
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;44739251]I love your statistics, please share your numbers![/QUOTE]
funny you say that because the poster i was replying to gave no numbers or statistics either
edit: [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country]wikipedia[/url] is not exactly the best source out there but it's better than nothing
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;44736139]Are you high or stupid?
If someone breaks into your place and you feel like your life is in danger of course you'd feel safer having a semi-auto 12 guage by your side, it gives you the freedom to choose between letting them rob your place or defend your life or home if it comes to it and gives you more control over the situation.[/QUOTE]
It also makes the criminal jumpier and more likely to kill you because he knows that he could possibly die.
Allowing open access to guns is essentially allowing any confrontation to escalate to deadly force. If you feel that that's okay, then so be it. I personally do not wish to live in such a society.
[QUOTE=Headhumpy;44739723]It also makes the criminal jumpier and more likely to kill you because he knows that he could possibly die.
Allowing open access to guns is essentially allowing any confrontation to escalate to deadly force. If you feel that that's okay, then so be it. I personally do not wish to live in such a society.[/QUOTE]Most instances where a firearm is pulled for self-defense are resolved without the firearm ever actually being fired.
[QUOTE=Headhumpy;44739723]It also makes the criminal jumpier and more likely to kill you because he knows that he could possibly die.
Allowing open access to guns is essentially allowing any confrontation to escalate to deadly force. If you feel that that's okay, then so be it. I personally do not wish to live in such a society.[/QUOTE]
How is he going to try and kill you when you shoot him the second you see him?
Do you think most americans defend their house by waving a gun in the robbers face and asking them to leave?
[QUOTE=Headhumpy;44739723]Allowing open access to guns is essentially allowing any confrontation to escalate to deadly force. If you feel that that's okay, then so be it. I personally do not wish to live in such a society.[/QUOTE]
Unless you can find a way to keep all guns, knives, crowbars, baseball bats, and other potential makeshift weapons out of the hands of criminals, then any confrontation can already escalate to deadly force, whether you choose to live in a gun-allowing society or not.
There's this weird idea several posters, almost exclusively European, have repeated, which is the implication that guns are the sole factor in violence, and that by living in a country with heavy gun control that they have no need of protection and are immune to violent crime. Even just looking at the UK, in 2009 alone official crime statistics show 23,000 burglaries resulted in violence inflicted upon a homeowner. They came face-to-face without violence, usually because the homeowner had no means of resistance, in another 34,000 burglaries. The decision to rely upon the police does not guarantee safety, even in a country that heavily restricts the use of firearms.
If you prefer that situation then that's your choice, but your personal decision to roll the dice and hope you're not a victim does not in any way condemn those who prefer to take matters into their own hands.
even if police could get there the second you called what criminal is going to react positively to you saying "hold on let me call the cops real quick" while he's bashing your head into the concrete? the choice is basically between guns and an omnipresent police force and if you'd prefer the latter then there's little country called North Korea that you should check out.
[QUOTE=James xX;44732019]Why do Americans feel the need to be armed in the first place? Surely if they have a problem with a group such as harassment or threats they could seek help from the police?
I guess what I'm saying is, there are services set up to protect the people, why should the people therefore feel the need to also protect themselves?[/QUOTE]
Because those services have slow response times, and often in really bad situations, they arrive too late. Law Enforcement's job isn't to protect you, btw. My guns give me a better chance then nothing, not to mention, firearms happen to be a hobby of mine. I like shooting, etc.
[QUOTE=catbarf;44740153]Unless you can find a way to keep all guns, knives, crowbars, baseball bats, and other potential makeshift weapons out of the hands of criminals, then any confrontation can already escalate to deadly force, whether you choose to live in a gun-allowing society or not.
There's this weird idea several posters, almost exclusively European, have repeated, which is the implication that guns are the sole factor in violence, and that by living in a country with heavy gun control that they have no need of protection and are immune to violent crime. Even just looking at the UK, in 2009 alone official crime statistics show 23,000 burglaries resulted in violence inflicted upon a homeowner. They came face-to-face without violence, usually because the homeowner had no means of resistance, in another 34,000 burglaries. The decision to rely upon the police does not guarantee safety, even in a country that heavily restricts the use of firearms.
If you prefer that situation then that's your choice, but your personal decision to roll the dice and hope you're not a victim does not in any way condemn those who prefer to take matters into their own hands.[/QUOTE]
The difference is that it is far, far easier for a confrontation to turn deadly when guns are involved. I am not saying that they are the sole factor in violence, but having them around tends to turn things far more violent than they need to be.
Your decision to take matters into your own hands also affects the lives of those who would rather live in a gun-free society. The sword cuts both ways.
I think gun culture in the US (and FP) is ridiculous
[QUOTE=proboardslol;44740819]I think gun culture in the US (and FP) is ridiculous[/QUOTE]
It is ridiculous but saying that, there's nothing really wrong with gun ownership. But the complete fetishism (correct word?) and dick waving of your constitutional rights (openly carrying an AR-15 into a fast food restaurant when it really isn't necessary) just puts a really poor image on gun activists.
I would be okay with people having action-based loaded (ie not automatic or semi-automatic) rifles, but access to even semi-autos, as well as any pistol or revolver (ie concealables), shouldn't be available. You can go hunting and defend your home with a rifle (how often would you ever have to do this though, like never?), you don't need a pistol or assault rifle.
[QUOTE=James xX;44732019]Why do Americans feel the need to be armed in the first place? Surely if they have a problem with a group such as harassment or threats they could seek help from the police?[/QUOTE]
You'd better throw away all of your fire extinguishers right now then. If your house is on fire, you don't need fire extinguishers. Just call the Fire Department. Surely if your house is on fire you should seek help from the Fire Department. :downs:
[QUOTE=Quark:;44741061]You'd better throw away all of your fire extinguishers right now then. If your house is on fire, you don't need fire extinguishers. Just call the Fire Department. Surely if your house is on fire you should seek help from the Fire Department. :downs:[/QUOTE]
Actually, I don't even have a fire extinguisher in my unit or anywhere else in the unit block, and I don't know a single person who has a fire extinguisher in their house. Poor argument.
[QUOTE=Antdawg;44741085]Actually, I don't even have a fire extinguisher in my unit or anywhere else in the unit block, and I don't know a single person who has a fire extinguisher in their house. Poor argument.[/QUOTE]
that's actually like, really fucking unsafe
[QUOTE=Antdawg;44741085]Actually, I don't even have a fire extinguisher in my unit or anywhere else in the unit block, and I don't know a single person who has a fire extinguisher in their house. Poor argument.[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure you could get fined for that.
[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;44741227]that's actually like, really fucking unsafe[/QUOTE]
I live life on the edge. That's also why I only have my car insured for third party personal injuries, and no third party property or comprehensive.
And I don't know about the US but you'd probably be laughed at for being super paranoid if you kept a fire extinguisher in your house here. In your shed or garage would be acceptable though.
[editline]7th May 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;44741263]I'm pretty sure you could get fined for that.[/QUOTE]
Have you noticed my flagdog. Your silly rules don't apply here.
Just because you're not in the US, doesn't make it any less of a fire hazard. Better safe than sorry.
[QUOTE=Antdawg;44741276]Have you noticed my flagdog. Your silly rules don't apply here.[/QUOTE]
Our "silly rules" are meant to keep people safe and alive by stopping fires before they consume the whole house.
I understand that there are more instances where you can't rely on police response time in the USA (citation needed to compare with other countries).
I honestly feel safer knowing that firearms are restricted here though, and don't feel the need to own one because of that.
[QUOTE=Duck M.;44732457]The background check proposal that shouldve passed wouldve been a start. As long as it's a thorough process, because really one should be required for something that requires the responsibility that a gun does.[/QUOTE]
Background checks are required when buying from a gun dealer in all 50 states, and many states have rules regarding them when buying from an individual. Also, about all states that have carry permits require background checks before getting them as wel.
[QUOTE=Antdawg;44733514]Do guns really stop crimes?[/QUOTE]
500,000 to 3 million times per year, according to a 2013 report from the Center for Disease Control, whom Obama funded the study for using an Executive Order.
[url]http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=18319&page=R1[/url]
[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;44741332]Just because you're not in the US, doesn't make it any less of a fire hazard. Better safe than sorry.
Our "silly rules" are meant to keep people safe and alive.[/QUOTE]
Your silly rules like the stand your ground law which means you can get away with murdering someone?
[QUOTE=Antdawg;44741370]Your silly rules like the stand your ground law which means you can get away with murdering someone?[/QUOTE]
One bad law makes every other law bad.
[QUOTE=Antdawg;44741370]Your silly rules like the stand your ground law which means you can get away with murdering someone?[/QUOTE]
Literally what does that have to do with basic personal safety :v:
[QUOTE=Antdawg;44741370]Your silly rules like the stand your ground law which means you can get away with murdering someone?[/QUOTE]
God are you ignorant on how stand your ground works. Either that or you're just purposely trying to start shit.
[QUOTE=Duck M.;44741404]Literally what does that have to do with basic personal safety :v:[/QUOTE]
Literally because it means someone's going to end up in a hospital or six feet under? Of course it's relevant to basic personal safety, we're in a thread about gun rights after all.
[QUOTE=Antdawg;44741370]Your silly rules like the stand your ground law which means you can get away with murdering someone?[/QUOTE]
You're pretty misinformed, learn something about laws before stirring shit up about them on a forum. SYG prevents you from going to jail because your instinct makes you kill an attacker when you had the option of just running away. If you've ever been in a situation like that, you'd notice that in hindsight, you weren't really thinking at all, but reacting. Some people react by drawing and firing their weapon at the threat, others run.
I actually have a relative that went to jail because he shot a guy(didn't kill him) that was attacking him, and the police were 30 minutes away. He spent 2 months in jail, paid a bigass fine, and was stripped of his right to carry a firearm for life. He was crippled from knee surgery and was outside, which threw castle law right out the window.
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