• Supreme Court Rejects Appeal on Gun Rights
    178 replies, posted
[QUOTE=jimhowl33t;44755747]That's exactly what we've been saying since the beginning, you dirty goblin. You don't really need to kill them (in most cases, anyway) and they're hella more likely to flee if they see an armed homeowner rather than a helpless one. Fucking hell do you even read [editline]8th May 2014[/editline] Because the other side is so much better than that. Riiiiiight.[/QUOTE] A criminal is hella likely to flee no matter what the homeowner is holding because [B]they don't want to get caught or escalate unless needed either[/B]. If they've broken in they probably assume your house is empty, a noise like someone getting up is going to spook them. Not send them into a murderous bloodlust that can only be sated with the flesh of the homeowner without a gun. And idk, we seem to be doing a lot better than you guys, lot less insulting going on here. Much more actual points, sourcing and argument.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;44755667]Ahahahahaha holy shit what the fuck are you even doing guy? Like, for real, what is this? Saying "yo, why the fuck you wanna shoot all the guys just because they're doing the crime on you?" isn't saying "Hey that criminal is a fine sir and you should respect his life choices, in fact he's doing better than you are clearly, as he has the time to break into your home. Also your family are fucking retards.". It's literally just saying "why do you want to escalate that shit? You're gonna have dead guy in your house for a long fucking time, blood is a persistent stain". The mere fact that we can comprehend the (relative) importance of human life over animals, plants, single-celled organisms, etc. is more than enough reason to treat other human life with more respect than "fuck it, there's billions more of you, nobody will miss this one". Humans can be improved, taught, fixed, killing them doesn't allow for this. Attempting to solve the problems that cause the guy to break in to your house in the first place, and making them at least partially productive is more useful than killing them because you're a twitchy fuck. If the guy stealing your TV didn't come straight up to your room to slit your throat, strangle your child and kick your dog, what makes you think they're gonna do it just because you told them to stop stealing your shit? Unless you start threatening them in a way they feel they also need to defend their lives, I don't think they're going to risk a harsher prison sentence. Basic risk assessment, anyone past puberty should have that (barring mental disorder). Most petty thieves are just going to bail the second they think the jig is up, why hang around and risk getting fucked up or arrested? [editline]8th May 2014[/editline] My god, why are all you hardline gun-rights nuts so fucking aggressive? Can you not actually argue? You [B]all[/B] resort to insulting the guys arguing against you, rather than their actual point. I'm not even generalising here, holy shit.[/QUOTE]Did you read his posts at all? Corn is right, he's being fucking dumb about it and deserves to get called out. He doesn't have a clue what he's talking about and for that matter neither do you. Neither of you can do more than spout rhetoric that has no evidential basis in reality and is just to look good. So quit acting like some moral high-road paladin who can see the whole picture that no one else can. Its been said before, but the overwhelming majority of cases where a firearm has to be used for self-defense the firearm is never actually fired because just the presence is enough to scare most intruders away. Second, a large number of places here regard people as having the right to defend ones self and ones property from damage or theft in places where they have a right to be.
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;44755730]Also, what you said supports my argument. If those criminals don't want a murder charge, then does it make a difference whether or not you have a gun?[/QUOTE] One time, my grandma's house got broken into by two guys. She was awake, so was my grandpa, the one with the knife tried to stab my grandma. She managed to grab the guy's hand and scream for help, and that got them to back off since it's an apartment building. But if my grandma hadn't been as brave as she was, that could have seriously ended badly. This is why I said criminals are unpredictable, when someone decides that trying to stab an old lady is more productive than just cancelling the robbery, just how much trust can you really put on these people?
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;44755708]Except human life isn't special in the least bit. There are 7billionish of us on this planet, one death is literally nothing. No-one but their family cares, to imply that you do is a flat out lie. I have less reapect for someone who breaks in BECAUSE THEY MADE THE CONCIOUS DECISION. In a country where shooting someone for breaking in is completely and totally legal, you breaking in screams "im too fucking stupid to continue existing , please kill me" by the way, the ability to be improved doesn't make you a better species, my dog can be improved, and it doesn't go around breaking into peoples houses.[/QUOTE] Someone breaking into your house isn't doing it to antagonise you (normally), they're doing it because the system has failed them and they need to survive. You just got unlucky that your place looked empty enough and robabble enough. Breaking in is usually an act of desperation, not an act of "I forfeit my life to you oh honourable gunman, please put me out of my pitiful existence". Sure you can improve a dog, but it's still dumb as bricks for the most part. It relies on you for a lot of shit still. If you improve a human you can make them self sufficient, you can solve their reliance on crime, and eventually they can return to the same society that fixed them.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;44755761]Can you not go a post without strawmanning hard or what?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=hexpunK;44755761]Owning a gun with the express purpose of "self defence" is something I don't agree with because why straight up kill the guy just for being shifty? If he makes an attempt on your life, sure go for it, but just for hovering around after being threatened with [B]fucking death[/B] whilst he works out what's going on isn't great.[/QUOTE] Are you seriously blithely unaware of how ironic this is? Can you point to me where all the gun owners are suggesting you should just unload on someone for 'being shifty', or that every home intrusion absolutely must immediately result in instant death? Fuck, I've openly advocated using lethal force in self-defense and even I would prefer to subdue an intruder non-violently and wait for the police to show up. The point is to have that capability if it becomes [i]absolutely necessary[/i]. The only person straw-manning here is you, and you [i]keep doing it[/i]. [quote]You all resort to insulting the guys arguing against you, rather than their actual point. I'm not even generalising here, holy shit. [/quote]
[QUOTE=hexpunK;44755761]Owning a gun with the express purpose of "self defence" is something I don't agree with because why straight up kill the guy just for being shifty?[/QUOTE] In my eyes, that doesn't count as self defence. That's just an excuse for murder. That's why I said, you tell him to back off and if he values his own life, he will. If he tries to attack you, your life is in danger and you are free to shoot, and are more likely to successfully defend yourself than if you had a baseball bat or a knife.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;44755783]And idk, we seem to be doing a lot better than you guys, lot less insulting going on here. Much more actual points, sourcing and argument.[/QUOTE]Uhh, no? What sourcing and what points have actually held up other than as pure rhetoric?
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;44755793]And your side of the argument always strawmans about people just "coming down stairs and blowing the dude away" no, you give them instructions, failing to comply is hostile which will get them shot.[/QUOTE] Considering your attitude in these threads, there's a reason people are assuming you're the "blow them away" kind. You are literally incapable of showing empathy to strangers or something going by these gems of posts you like to write.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;44755825]Uhh, no? What sourcing and what points have actually held up other than as pure rhetoric?[/QUOTE] In the numerous threads of olde, and earlier posts in this threads there are actual sources for statistics related to crime rates involving firearm, murder, burglary, mugging, etc. Not my fault if you've not paid attention here really. Arguing this shit is getting tiring as fuck as it does just go in circles.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;44755761]Nope. Nobody has ever said that. What the fuck is wrong with you guys? Can you not go a post without strawmanning hard or what?[/QUOTE] Are you for real? His was a reply to an argument that was, in a nutshell, "using violence against criminals is bad" and all you did was laugh at him. How is that [I]not[/I] valuing the life of some random cunt above that of your loved ones? [QUOTE] If he makes an attempt on your life, sure go for it, but just for hovering around after being threatened with [B]fucking death[/B] whilst he works out what's going on isn't great.[/QUOTE] And again you demonstrate a severe lack of reading capabilities, because (let me write this in biiiig letters just to make sure it gets through) THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO DO AND WHAT MOST GUN OWNERS ADVOCATE. STEP 1: POINT GUN STEP 2: TELL HIM TO GET THE FUCK OUT STEP 3: IS HE GETTING THE FUCK OUT? - IF YES: GOOD, CALL THE COPS AND DESCRIBE THE BURGLAR AND WHAT JUST HAPPENED. - IF NO: REPEAT STEP 2 - IF HE'S LUNGING AT YOUR FACE: ACTIVATE BOOMSTICK AND POKE A HOLE IN THE WANKER That's what we've all been saying since the beginning. And if you really think we're all "shoot first, ask question later" psychothic motherfuckers, then your wonderfully unbiased opinions can take a long and happy hike. [editline]8th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=hexpunK;44755831]Considering your attitude in these threads[/QUOTE] Something something pot and kettle something.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;44755834]Or you can remove the potential threat to you without firing upon them, unless they fail to comply with instructions. Having a gun doesn't mean you're going to shoot someone, it means you're prepared to but not that you're automatically killing everyone in sight. Its not like you can't hold the guy at gunpoint and call the cops.[/QUOTE] Right, a good solution. Most of these arguments seem to stem from the fact that a lot of the posts in support seem to be dripping in a weird fetishisation of being the hero or something. Like, all you guys ever seem to mention is that you're ready to kill someone when needed, none of the reasonable solutions or anything. [editline]8th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=jimhowl33t;44755852]That's what we've all been saying since the beginning. And if you really think we're all "shoot first, ask question later" psychothic motherfuckers, then your wonderfully unbiased opinions can take a long and happy hike.[/QUOTE] I calls them as they make themselves visible. Having such a "eh, who cares" approach to killing others just because you may need to doesn't exactly scream "I'm a healthy human being" to me. [QUOTE=jimhowl33t;44755852]Something something pot and kettle something.[/QUOTE] Nah, yeah this is totally a constructive line of argument. We should continue this on stage or something. Or not, it's getting fucking dumb again.
This thread is chaos.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;44755850]would i shoot the guy automatically? No, i didn't in the past and I wouldn't start now. Will I shoot him the second he fails to comply with instructions? Yes, absolutely. I've got a wife and kids to care for, they mean far more to me than some fuck off the street[/QUOTE] So, you tell the guy to stop and get out. He responds by freezing up because he's got a gun pointed at his face. What do you take that as? I mean, it's probably not a problem, he's just shat himself and isn't harmful. But he's not complying any more, so is that a threatening action to you? [editline]8th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=MR2;44755896]This thread is chaos.[/QUOTE] They always are. We thrive off this shit as a forum I think.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;44732430]Having to strap a weapon designed to kill or at least maim others to yourself to feel safe isn't healthy.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=hexpunK;44755866]Right, a good solution. Most of these arguments seem to stem from the fact that a lot of the posts in support seem to be dripping in a weird fetishisation of being the hero or something. Like, all you guys ever seem to mention is that you're ready to kill someone when needed, none of the reasonable solutions or anything.[/QUOTE] First you accuse gun owners of being mentally unbalanced psychopaths who feel a need to murder people to feel safe, then when it is pointed out that shooting people is never the first resort you backpedal and call it 'a good solution' while still lamenting these nebulous psychopaths you've never identified and painting anyone who says they'd be willing to use a gun to defend themselves as some insane Rambo-wannabe, then [i]you[/i] bitch about straw manning.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;44755809]Someone breaking into your house isn't doing it to antagonise you[/QUOTE] Breaking into your house trying to steal your shit isn't classed as antagonizing, sure. [QUOTE]they're doing it because the system has failed them and they need to survive.[/QUOTE] Some of them, maybe. Most of them? Lol no. [QUOTE]You just got unlucky that your place looked empty enough and robabble enough.[/QUOTE] Just like people get raped because they look slutty, right?
[QUOTE=catbarf;44755912]First you accuse gun owners of being mentally unbalanced psychopaths who feel a need to murder people to feel safe, then when it is pointed out that shooting people is never the first resort you backpedal and call it 'a good solution' while still lamenting these nebulous psychopaths you've never identified and painting anyone who says they'd be willing to use a gun to defend themselves as some insane Rambo-wannabe, then [i]you[/i] bitch about straw manning.[/QUOTE] I never retracted the statement I made earlier. Having to strap a firearm to yourself to feel safe in your home or in public doesn't seem like something a healthy mind would consider. However, at least not shooting people the second you feel remotely threatened by them stops some of the stupidity. Come on, I know how to debate in an informal shitpit like this, if I'm gonna retract a statement, it'll be explicitly retracted. [editline]8th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=jimhowl33t;44755931]Breaking into your house trying to steal your shit isn't classed as antagonizing, sure. Some of them, maybe. Most of them? Lol no. Just like people get raped because they look slutty, right?[/QUOTE] Nice attempt to spin that to victim blaming. But that's a no go. You're not quite Fox News, they still hold the crown as King of Spin. Rape is a power thing, it's not a "coorrr I like er, betteh get mi dik in there!!" thing. Theft is a "holy shit I could use some money, that place looks like I won't die if I go in, I'll try that" thing. If I wanted to be a major cock I would try spinning your argument as a trivialisation of rape, but I'm not gonna try because it won't help mine so it's not worth the effort. As for "some of them, maybe". Well, it depends on your area, but it can easily be most of them. People with stuff don't tend to just break in to places and steal shit, there's no reason other than ~adventure~, and you can do so much better than petty theft if you want that. No, it's quite likely they need money for food, drugs, whatever, and have no actual way of earning it (no job, no benefits system, etc.). Rich kids are like, the one big exception here, but they're fucking assholes normally, outliers suck. Is the criminal breaking in to your shit just to cause a nuisance to you in particular? Are you being targeted by a small group repeatedly because they know you or something? Antagonistic behaviour. Is it a one off thing, or are the intruders clearly unrelated? Antagonistic in the broadest sense, sure, but they aren't doing it to piss you in particular off.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;44755944]Nice attempt to spin that to victim blaming.[/QUOTE] Pray tell, how is "You just got unlucky that your place looked empty enough and robabble enough" not victim blaming?
[QUOTE=jimhowl33t;44756053]Pray tell, how is "You just got unlucky that your place looked empty enough and robabble enough" not victim blaming?[/QUOTE] Because it's "you got unlucky your house looked like that to the guy", not "your fault your house looked that way". Your house isn't going to look "empty enough and robbable enough" to everyone, just the guy who happened to break in. Nothing you can really do about it, maybe invest in security stuff if you're super concerned? It's not like your actions had any play in the guy thinking "yeah, this place might be empty, I'm going in." [editline]8th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=ilikecorn;44755943]You can repeat your self, you're allowed to use judgement. For the record I always used the command "get on the ground" not get out, the two time's i've done it my wife was on the phone with the police while i held him at gunpoint in the kitchen. Firing is a last resort, but something you've got to be ready to do.[/QUOTE] This is good. I'm actually starting to understand more about your choices, rather than just seeing "nah fuck em, criminals are all scum hurr" like so many other posters insist on posting in these threads for some fucking reason. I'm not willing to drop my thing of "the fact you think you need a gun isn't good", because it's not. It shows massive problems societally that should preferably be solved. But at least it's showing an actual insight into your processes.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;44756104]Because it's "you got unlucky your house looked like that to the guy", not "your fault your house looked that way".[/QUOTE] You're still defending the actions of a criminal based on his opinion of my house. I don't see how that justifies a burglary. [QUOTE]Nothing you can really do about it[/QUOTE] Sure I can. By defending my house with force, even lethal if necessary. [QUOTE]maybe invest in security stuff if you're super concerned?[/QUOTE] A home defense gun is an excellent example of security stuff. Not everyone can afford reinforced doors and windows.
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