These dudes want the American Empire to get the fuck out of Vermont...

[Hunterbrute]

[QUOTE=lolwutdude;19627792]Their only equally powerful in the senate, other than that, they're weak. If they become their own country, then who the hell is going to support them? If they secede, they'll anger the shit out of our Government. We'll tax the fuck out of Vermont if they want to ship anything, they'll get absolutely zero support from the Government, and etc. It's what happened long time ago.[/QUOTE]

Yes it may be what happened but as I keep saying a state can be self sufficient, if the Central government continues to violate the rights of the people then those people have the right to fight back. The Revolution showed how people reacted to an over controlling Government, the Civil war showed what happens when enough people disagree with the actions taken by the central government. This could very well be the start of a second civil war.

[toxicpiano]

[QUOTE=yawmwen;19626250]I don't think there is a law against it. We wanted all the colonies to be in willingly, which is why it was so hard even founding the US. New York had a different agenda than Virginia, for example.

Our Culture and Politics are drastically different than Europe's, is what I think he is meaning to say.[/QUOTE]
Yeah but there's more than 50 separate sovereign nations in Europe, they all have different cultures and politics.

[InsanePyro]

Well just hold comfort in that there's no way in hell they'll win...and if they do...*facepalm*

[Hunterbrute]

[QUOTE=InsanePyro;19627890]Well just hold comfort in that there's no way in hell they'll win...and if they do...*facepalm*[/QUOTE]

Could you explain exactly whats comforting about this?

These people are just the beginning if things continue, no one likes the Federal Reserve, no one besides idiots like Socialism. The very fact that the USA is getting Socialist ideals is wrong, the idea that bailouts work is wrong, we are in an unlawful conflict over seas.

Just by one of those points all the states should be wanting out, Im surprised it has taken this long for even the ideas of seceding to catch on.

[Canuhearme?]

[QUOTE=Hunterbrute;19628000]Could you explain exactly whats comforting about this?

These people are just the beginning if things continue, no one likes the Federal Reserve, no one besides idiots like Socialism. The very fact that the USA is getting Socialist ideals is wrong, the idea that bailouts work is wrong, we are in an unlawful conflict over seas.

Just by one of those points all the states should be wanting out, Im surprised it has taken this long for even the ideas of seceding to catch on.[/QUOTE]

I don't remember where I heard this, but it went something like this:

"If you aren't a Socialist at 13 you have no heart, if you are a Socialist at 30 you have no brain."

[Hunterbrute]

[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;19628040]I don't remember where I heard this, but it went something like this:

"If you aren't a Socialist at 13 you have no heart, if you are a Socialist at 30 you have no brain."[/QUOTE]

Haha good quote.

[Trotsky]

[QUOTE=Ferret+;19626582]Since when was America an empire?[/QUOTE]

Since it has 800 military bases spread out through the world.

[editline]07:04PM[/editline]

[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;19628040]I don't remember where I heard this, but it went something like this:

"If you aren't a Socialist at 13 you have no heart, if you are a Socialist at 30 you have no brain."[/QUOTE]

that was Winston Churchill and you fucked up the quote

also, it's a stupid quote, regardless.

[editline]07:04PM[/editline]

[QUOTE=Hunterbrute;19628000]Could you explain exactly whats comforting about this?

These people are just the beginning if things continue, no one likes the Federal Reserve, no one besides idiots like Socialism. The very fact that the USA is getting Socialist ideals is wrong, the idea that bailouts work is wrong, we are in an unlawful conflict over seas.

Just by one of those points all the states should be wanting out, Im surprised it has taken this long for even the ideas of seceding to catch on.[/QUOTE]

hahaha, only idiots like socialism

like Denmark and Sweden

(even though they're doing far better then America... whooops)

[editline]07:05PM[/editline]

you should stop posting

[editline]07:05PM[/editline]

seriously, you have no clue what you're talking about

[Hunterbrute]

[QUOTE=Trotsky;19628135]
hahaha, only idiots like socialism

like Denmark and Sweden

(even though they're doing far better then America... whooops)

[editline]07:05PM[/editline]

you should stop posting[/QUOTE]

Socialism doesnt work, you should stop arguing in favor of a horrible system.

[Trotsky]

[QUOTE=Hunterbrute;19627184]Well you see thats what makes America great, states joined the Union by CHOICE not by FORCE. It is the duty of every state to leave when the Constitution and the Bill of Rights are shit on and looked upon as 200 year old pieces of useless paper, the very fact we have the Federal Reserve is enough to warrant secession from the Union.[/QUOTE]

Indian's joined by choice?

[Wallettheifv3]

[QUOTE=Zeke129;19623791]I think your government would let them secede. Civil War 2 in the "world's superpower" would make you the laughing stock of the planet.[/QUOTE]

America is already the laughing stock of the world

[Perfumly]

I don't understand part of the article here.
What's so odd about legalizing gay marriage and having lax gun laws? That's how it should be.

[editline]06:11PM[/editline]

[QUOTE=Wallettheifv3;19628209]America is already the laughing stock of the world[/QUOTE]

USA is the best sry

[Hunterbrute]

[QUOTE=Trotsky;19628195]Indian's joined by choice?[/QUOTE]

Indians werent white people, if you knew about history you would know that racism is a huge part of human history.

[QUOTE=Wallettheifv3;19628209]America is already the laughing stock of the world[/QUOTE]

Going the way of the Romans.

[QUOTE=Perfumly;19628238]
USA is the best sry[/QUOTE]

The foundation of America may be, but the way its being run now is not.

[yawmwen]

[QUOTE=Hunterbrute;19627783]The fuck is everyone on?

Every state has the capabilities to support itself, each state joined the Union on its own by its own choice. I have yet to see a state that could not provide for itself.[/QUOTE]

Even if Vermont had the capability to support itself economically it still cannot politically. In order for a small sovereign nation to survive it's sovereignty has to be recognized. The USA would never recognize Vermont as a sovereign nation, and I doubt many other countries would too(unless they got a benefit from supporting Vermont). Vermont would have a horrible army(compared to her neighbor), no political support, and be right in the middle of a Hostile Empire. She would be gobbled back into the Union in a heartbeat.

[QUOTE=toxicpiano;19627815]Yeah but there's more than 50 separate sovereign nations in Europe, they all have different cultures and politics.[/QUOTE]

True.

[QUOTE=Ferret+;19626582]Since when was America an empire?[/QUOTE]

The USA has been a regional Empire for over a hundred years and a World Empire since WW2.

[editline]06:18PM[/editline]

[QUOTE=Perfumly;19628238]I don't understand part of the article here.
What's so odd about legalizing gay marriage and having lax gun laws? That's how it should be.
[/QUOTE]

It is, but Gay Marriage is considered "Liberal", while lax gun laws are considered "Conservative".

[QUOTE=Wallettheifv3;19628209]America is already the laughing stock of the world[/QUOTE]

Not really. The USA is taken very seriously in global politics.

[Trotsky]

[QUOTE=Hunterbrute;19628176]Socialism doesnt work, you should stop arguing in favor of a horrible system.[/QUOTE]

Geography according to hunterbrute
[url]http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/5025/20070311100827alargebla.gif[/url]

Europe, that democratic socialist continent, never EVER existed

[editline]07:25PM[/editline]

[QUOTE=Hunterbrute;19628245]Indians werent white people, if you knew about history you would know that racism is a huge part of human history.[/QUOTE]

uh, why do you think I mentioned the indians then if I didn't know that?

that's contradictory to your statement.

[editline]07:25PM[/editline]

[QUOTE=Perfumly;19628238]having lax gun laws?[/QUOTE]

like Columbia :D

oh wait :C

[Hunterbrute]

[QUOTE=Trotsky;19628385]
Europe, that democratic socialist continent, never EVER existed
[/QUOTE]

Couldnt have said it better myself.

[QUOTE=Trotsky;19628385]
uh, why do you think I mentioned the indians then if I didn't know that?

that's contradictory to your statement.[/QUOTE]

Bringing up the indians doesnt count, you might as well bring up the slave trade, it wont help your argument.

[Deadly-Virus]

[QUOTE=Trotsky;19628385]Geography according to hunterbrute
[url]http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/5025/20070311100827alargebla.gif[/url]

Europe, that democratic socialist continent, never EVER existed

[editline]07:25PM[/editline]

uh, why do you think I mentioned the indians then if I didn't know that?

that's contradictory to your statement.

[editline]07:25PM[/editline]

like Columbia :D

oh wait :C[/QUOTE]

What what what.

None of the countries in modern-day Europe are socialist. At least not any I know of.

[Wallettheifv3]

[QUOTE=Deadly-Virus;19628458]What what what.

None of the countries in modern-day Europe are socialist. At least not any I know of.[/QUOTE]

iceland

[Trotsky]

[QUOTE=Hunterbrute;19628438]Couldnt have said it better myself.[/QUOTE]

bitch u trollin

[editline]07:38PM[/editline]

[QUOTE=Deadly-Virus;19628458]What what what.

None of the countries in modern-day Europe are socialist. At least not any I know of.[/QUOTE]

uh

where have you been?

[Cloak_Raider]

[QUOTE=Deadly-Virus;19628458]What what what.

None of the countries in modern-day Europe are socialist. At least not any I know of.[/QUOTE]

Compared to the US, we are.

Also them countries up north are total socialists.

[editline]06:45PM[/editline]

[QUOTE=Hunterbrute;19628438]Couldnt have said it better myself.

Bringing up the indians doesnt count, you might as well bring up the slave trade, it wont help your argument.[/QUOTE]

It will.
You have no argument hunterbrute.

[Lankist]

[QUOTE=w1z v2;19623388]I thought the whole point of the Civil War was to be rid of whackjobs like these.[/QUOTE]

Yes. The entire point of the Civil War was to kill all dissenters.

God forbid somebody say something mildly controversial in a nation that was based upon and thrives in the controversial.

[Cathbadh]

[QUOTE=Ferret+;19626582]Since when was America an empire?[/QUOTE]
Oh, since about 1894.
McKinley: "let's take control of the Pacific while Japan and Russia slap each other around a while."
T. Roosevelt: "Oh, hip hip! Nothing like a good war! Safari-time! Alastair! to my personal time-machine in the Amazon basin! When I get back, [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roosevelt_Corollary"]I'll muck up the Monroe Doctrine to make sure we can impose a de-facto empire.[/URL]"

Spanish empire: "Fuck you America, those islands are ours!"
America: "Nu-uh." *Spanish-American war happens*

Phillipinos, Guamese, Cubans: "Hooray, USA! No more oppressive Spanish rule!"
America: "Yep, how about that. Here, have these ineffective puppet leaders who will blankly authorize all of your natural resources and land for American security and corporate interests."

I could do this all day, and go over the entire 20th century of American rule. This plays itself out over and over again.

[Lankist]

[QUOTE=Cathbadh;19628702]Oh, since about 1894.
McKinley: "let's take control of the Pacific while Japan and Russia slap each other around a while."
T. Roosevelt: "Oh, hip hip! Nothing like a good war! Safari-time! Alastair! to my personal time-machine in the Amazon basin! When I get back, [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roosevelt_Corollary"]I'll muck up the Monroe Doctrine to make sure we can impose a de-facto empire.[/URL]"

Spanish empire: "Fuck you America, those islands are ours!"
America: "Nu-uh." *Spanish-American war happens*

Phillipinos, Guamese, Cubans: "Hooray, USA! No more oppressive Spanish rule!"
America: "Yep, how about that. Here, have these ineffective puppet leaders who will blankly authorize all of your natural resources and land for American security and corporate interests."

I could do this all day, and go over the entire 20th century of American rule. This plays itself out over and over again.[/QUOTE]

Your grasp on history is bafflingly bad. America was an isolationist state, as per our doctrine, until World War 2. We didn't participate in goddamn near anything outside our borders until Pearl Harbor.

[Hunterbrute]

[QUOTE=Cathbadh;19628702]Oh, since about 1894.
McKinley: "let's take control of the Pacific while Japan and Russia slap each other around a while."
T. Roosevelt: "Oh, hip hip! Nothing like a good war! Safari-time! Alastair! to my personal time-machine in the Amazon basin! When I get back, [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roosevelt_Corollary"]I'll muck up the Monroe Doctrine to make sure we can impose a de-facto empire.[/URL]"

Spanish empire: "Fuck you America, those islands are ours!"
America: "Nu-uh." *Spanish-American war happens*

Phillipinos, Guamese, Cubans: "Hooray, USA! No more oppressive Spanish rule!"
America: "Yep, how about that. Here, have these ineffective puppet leaders who will blankly authorize all of your natural resources and land for American security and corporate interests."

I could do this all day, and go over the entire 20th century of American rule. This plays itself out over and over again.[/QUOTE]

Please do continue.

[QUOTE=Lankist;19628721]Your grasp on history is bafflingly bad.[/QUOTE]

It doesnt matter, its completely on topic to this thread.

[Lankist]

[QUOTE=Hunterbrute;19628727]It doesnt matter, its completely on topic to this thread.[/QUOTE]

So as long as it's on topic then he can make shit up and nobody can call him on it? Are you retarded?

[Hunterbrute]

[QUOTE=Lankist;19628755]So as long as it's on topic then he can make shit up and nobody can call him on it? Are you retarded?[/QUOTE]

The fact you responded to it makes it all the better.

[QUOTE=Lankist;19628755] Are you retarded?[/QUOTE]
dunt maek fun my condishun or imma tell my momy on u.

[Cathbadh]

[QUOTE=Lankist;19628721]Your grasp on history is bafflingly bad. America was an isolationist state, as per our doctrine, until World War 2. We didn't participate in goddamn near anything outside our borders until Pearl Harbor.[/QUOTE]
"As per our doctrine"
You mean the Monroe Doctrine, the doctrine drafted in the early 19th century to establish a state of non-involvement in international affairs? Did you not read the link I posted where TR overturned much of the policy therein?

Are you gonna deny that the Spanish-American war ever happened? In your mind was this Castro guy was just chillin' in Cuba until one day he decided "hey, Cuba should be communist now, since the glorious nation of America hasn't had any claim to Cuba whatsoever!"

[yawmwen]

[QUOTE=Hunterbrute;19628727]
It doesnt matter, its completely on topic to this thread.[/QUOTE]

Vermont actually seceded in 1990 but no one told you. It was because they knew about 9/11 and they tried to prevent it but the US government didn't let them. They are trying to secede again because they know about an asteroid hitting in 2012 but the US government won't do anything.

See? Completely on topic.

[Itachi_Crow]

[QUOTE=Zeke129;19623791]I think your government would let them secede. Civil War 2 in the "world's superpower" would make you the laughing stock of the planet.[/QUOTE]

It wouldn't exactly be a war, considering it's one state versus THE ENTIRE US MILITARY.

Unless they manage to get more states on their side, but I seriously doubt this'll go anywhere.

[yawmwen]

[QUOTE=Lankist;19628721]Your grasp on history is bafflingly bad. America was an isolationist state, as per our doctrine, until World War 2. We didn't participate in goddamn near anything outside our borders until Pearl Harbor.[/QUOTE]

Actually we became isolationist after WW1. Before that we were a regional empire.

[editline]07:04PM[/editline]

[QUOTE=Itachi_Crow;19628868]It wouldn't exactly be a war, considering it's one state versus THE ENTIRE US MILITARY.
[/QUOTE]

It's more like a damn slaughter for any poor Vermont soldier who would have to fight against the USA.

[Lankist]

[QUOTE=Cathbadh;19628831]"As per our doctrine"
You mean the Monroe Doctrine, the doctrine drafted in the early 19th century to establish a state of non-involvement in international affairs? Did you not read the link I posted where TR overturned much of the policy therein?

Are you gonna deny that the Spanish-American war ever happened? In your mind was this Castro guy was just chillin' in Cuba until one day he decided "hey, Cuba should be communist now, since the glorious nation of America hasn't had any claim to Cuba whatsoever!"[/QUOTE]

Bitch I am a lawyer. I know what the goddamn Monroe Doctrine is. You don't seem to know what the hell it is yourself.

The Monroe Doctrine was established as a diplomatic bridge between fledgling and established nations. It was an agreement that, provided Europe would stay out of the affairs of the Americas, the United States would do the same. It was the first step in ensuring PEACE between two states that had just recently fought a war. Additionally, the Monroe Doctrine was a method of extending the olive branch to Mexico and the other nations in Central America that, too, were fighting revolutions with their respective counterparts overseas.

If you had actually read what the Monroe Doctrine fucking was you would realize that Latin America was ON OUR SIDE when it was established, and it allowed all of our young nations to rely on one another for defense against potential future incursion by imperialist states.

Furthermore what you linked was NOT the Monroe Doctrine, but the Roosevelt Corollary, which WASN'T established in 1894 but 1904. The Roosevelt Corollary was only an amendment to the Monroe Doctrine because it flew right in the fact of the doctrine's original purpose, which was to live and let live.

The Spanish American War took place DECADES after the Monroe Doctrine was established and during a period of which Roosevelt began to twist its purpose for lack of more legitimate reasons.

And no, when I referenced "Our Doctrine," it was not the Monroe Doctrine. I was referencing the ground rules that President Washington established during his term, chiefly of which was that America came first and foremost and that we should not get involved in foreign affairs that we otherwise have the option of avoiding.

[editline]02:10PM[/editline]

[QUOTE=yawmwen;19628872]Actually we became isolationist after WW1. Before that we were a regional empire.[/QUOTE]

No, actually, we were isolationist under the order of the first president.

Goddamn you kids need to pay fucking attention in History class. Wikipedia is NOT a legitimate source for this information, especially when you don't read the fucking articles.