WikiLeaks Exposes Rumsfeld's Lies - Polidicks

[QUOTE=bravehat;25706527]Such bitter-sweet ironeeeee!!!![/QUOTE] Perhaps you should read the entirety of the post I quoted. :colbert:

[QUOTE=bravehat;25706527]Implying any politician has ever been true to his world, and cared about the people who put them into power.[/QUOTE] It wasn't always that way, and simply because it has in the past 50 years or so doesn't mean we should accept it. Jefferson put it bluntly when he said 'the tree of liberty must be watered by the blood of tyrants'.

I cannot wait until we get a new government or I move out of this shithole of a country. The government's a bunch of shit. European guys, are your politics better than ours? I'm ready to move to Germany or someplace. This is why I will not vote when I'm 18+. :colbert:

[QUOTE=AmericanInfantry;25706975]I cannot wait until we get a new government or I move out of this shithole of a country. The government's a bunch of shit. European guys, are your politics better than ours? I'm ready to move to Germany or someplace. This is why I will not vote when I'm 18+. :colbert:[/QUOTE] Its so ironic that your username is American Infantry Did you just recently go through something that has given you such an opinion

[QUOTE=ShukaidoX;25706825]It wasn't always that way, and simply because it has in the past 50 years or so doesn't mean we should accept it. Jefferson put it bluntly when he said 'the tree of liberty must be watered by the blood of tyrants'.[/QUOTE] K go kill some people. EDIT: If you seriously believe the govt did 9/11 and all these other horrible acts (though the lies about Iraq are legit), then why not go and do something about it?

[QUOTE=MovingSalad;25707030]Its so ironic that your username is American Infantry Did you just recently go through something that has given you such an opinion[/QUOTE] It is ironic but that's besides the point. Point being is that this country is supposedly the "land of the free, home of the brave". No, more like "land of the cheats, home of the cowards". These politicians are so scared to tell what is actually going on so I can have a decent understanding of the situation of how bad this war is. Nope, they decide to blatantly lie to their taxpayers about this shit. Plus I watch George Carlin. May he rest in peace because he gave me this opinion about this country and he allowed many to (hopefully) see how bad it is here with the corrupt political system. I might be voicing my opinion, feel free to go against it. I ain't changing.

It is plausible that 9/11 was a bit of an inside job--how the fuck does a country make the mistake to give tons of money to these people and then "Oh shit they nipped us in the ass, those bastards!" [img]http://jeffersoncorner.smartsolutions.ma/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/saddam-rumsfeld.jpg[/img] Oh shit guys we made an agreement with the wrong "TYRANT"

[QUOTE=MovingSalad;25707157]It is plausible that 9/11 was a bit of an inside job--how the fuck does a country make the mistake to give tons of money to these people and then "Oh shit they nipped us in the ass, those bastards!" [img_thumb]http://jeffersoncorner.smartsolutions.ma/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/saddam-rumsfeld.jpg[/img_thumb] Oh shit guys we made an agreement with the wrong "TYRANT"[/QUOTE] The fuck did Saddam have to do with 9/11? :confused:

Nothing will change until the people stand up against this corrupt, deceitfully opressive fascism. I don't represent anything except myself, and what can I change alone?

[QUOTE=Xen Tricks;25707060]If you seriously believe the govt did 9/11 and all these other horrible acts (though the lies about Iraq are legit), then why not go and do something about it?[/QUOTE] Because they'll lie to our faces about it. No one knows how or what happened during 9/11. If we would try to do an investigation, guess what the government will do? Begins with an "L".

[QUOTE=ShukaidoX;25707198]Nothing will change until the people stand up against this corrupt, deceitfully opressive fascism. I don't represent anything except myself, and what can I change alone?[/QUOTE] That's a shitty attitude, why not go get some people together and do something about it? If you believe the government is so single-mindedly evil, fight back against it. Every one in a group is a single person, and they all think the same as you, "what can I do by myself", until they're in a group. [QUOTE=AmericanInfantry;25707200]Because they'll lie to our faces about it. [b]No one knows how or what happened during 9/11[/b]. If we would try to do an investigation, guess what the government will do? Begins with an "L".[/QUOTE] Seeing as how investigations have been done, and it's pretty conclusive what happened (2 planes slammed into them which fucked things up), I think your hypothesis is a little skewed.

[QUOTE=SweetSwifter;25706015]So many 'controversial, dangerous and secretetive' documents leaked. Where's the revolution, the riots, the destruction of the white house? I don't feel that these leaks have ANY effect, other then the media whining about it. Is this just me? If so, I guess I'm just blind then. Maybe it also helps that I don't live in the US. If this is the case, can an American please elaborate.[/QUOTE] "Just (#)more years and this guy's out of office" Part of the reason we have a democracy is to prevent violent uprisings from happening.

[QUOTE=Itszutak;25707244]"Just (#)more years and this guy's out of office" Part of the reason we have a democracy is to prevent violent uprisings from happening.[/QUOTE] That and people still don't realize that despite our two party system you're really only getting the lesser of two evils. [editline]28th October 2010[/editline] [QUOTE=Xen Tricks;25707232]That's a shitty attitude, why not go get some people together and do something about it? If you believe the government is so single-mindedly evil, fight back against it. Every one in a group is a single person, and they all think the same as you, "what can I do by myself", until they're in a group. [/QUOTE] My point was that if one guy like me tried shooting up washington nothing would be accomplished. Until the people come together against it then the real change can be made by the will of the people.

So the government used propaganda to bolster support for an unpopular war? And people actually died during that civil war Iraq had? I'm shocked. [QUOTE=AmericanInfantry;25706975] This is why I will not vote when I'm 18+. :colbert:[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=ShukaidoX;25707198]Nothing will change until the people stand up against this corrupt, deceitfully opressive fascism. I don't represent anything except myself, and what can I change alone?[/QUOTE] The whole idea of a democracy is, if you want something to change, you get involved. The administration might not be perfect, but our systems still work perfectly fine. If you want to change something, you [i]should[/i] vote and you [i]should[/i] get involved in other ways. [quote]My point was that if one guy like me tried shooting up washington nothing would be accomplished. Until the people come together against it then the real change can be made by the will of the people[/quote] Well, they're sure as hell not waiting for you. Get some people together yourself. [i]Participation[/i].

[QUOTE=Xen Tricks;25707232]That's a shitty attitude, why not go get some people together and do something about it? If you believe the government is so single-mindedly evil, fight back against it. Every one in a group is a single person, and they all think the same as you, "what can I do by myself", until they're in a group.[/QUOTE] While his attitude may be shit, yours is unrealistic. You dont just get up and gather people to throw a revolution overnight. Especially in the US. Not everyone has the passion, the means and the motive to do such things. It'd require a huge amount of dedication, and people are just too afraid to lose everything they have, their job, their friends or even their freedom if the police decides to throw you in jail for treason. And a criminal record is the last thing you want in times like these where the economy is getting worse and worse, meaning lower employment rates. I bet a huge percentage of people may not even agree that the US needs a revolution. Comparing it to other revolutionists and why they wanted to overthrow their corrupted governments, the US' situation isn't half bad.

[QUOTE=ShukaidoX;25707367]That and people still don't realize that despite our two party system you're really only getting the lesser of two evils. [editline]28th October 2010[/editline] My point was that if one guy like me tried shooting up washington nothing would be accomplished. Until the people come together against it then the real change can be made by the will of the people.[/QUOTE] And I'm saying you be the catalyst for that change if you want it so bad. Saying "change won't happen till the people want it" is pointless because the people will never want it unless something makes them. [QUOTE=Melnek;25707789]While his attitude may be shit, yours is unrealistic. You dont just get up and gather people to throw a revolution overnight. Especially in the US. Not everyone has the passion, the means and the motive to do such things. It'd require a huge amount of dedication, and people are just too afraid to lose everything they have, their job, their friends or even their freedom if the police decides to throw you in jail for treason. And a criminal record is the last thing you want in times like these where the economy is getting worse and worse, meaning lower employment rates. I bet a huge percentage of people may not even agree that the US needs a revolution. Comparing it to other revolutionists and why they wanted to overthrow their corrupted governments, the US' situation isn't half bad.[/QUOTE] Yea, I know. I'm just saying if he thinks it's in such a bad shape, he should do something. I don't particularly like America right now, but I wouldn't violently revolt. He led me to believe he would because of the blood of the tyrants comment.

[QUOTE=Snuffy;25707754] The whole idea of a democracy is, if you want something to change, you get involved. The administration might not be perfect, but our systems still work perfectly fine. If you want to change something, you [i]should[/i] vote and you [i]should[/i] get involved in other ways.[/QUOTE] Sure, but what do you do when both parts of the system serve the same corporations, lobbyists, etc and no matter who you elect, shitty shit just keeps on getting shittier.

[QUOTE=Melnek;25707789]While his attitude may be shit, yours is unrealistic. You dont just get up and gather people to throw a revolution overnight. Especially in the US. Not everyone has the passion, the means and the motive to do such things. It'd require a huge amount of dedication, and people are just too afraid to lose everything they have, their job, their friends or even their freedom if the police decides to throw you in jail for treason. And a criminal record is the last thing you want in times like these where the economy is getting worse and worse, meaning lower employment rates. I bet a huge percentage of people may not even agree that the US needs a revolution. Comparing it to other revolutionists and why they wanted to overthrow their corrupted governments, the US' situation isn't half bad.[/QUOTE] The survivors of the Civil Rights Movement, I'm sure, would like to disagree. That's a ridiculously cynical view that creates more problems than it explains. [QUOTE=ShukaidoX;25707859]Sure, but what do you do when both parts of the system serve the same corporations, lobbyists, etc and no matter who you elect, shitty shit just keeps on getting shittier.[/QUOTE] There's more to participating in a democracy than voting. Write your congressman. Find a candidate you like, and sponsor him to your friends. Go to debates. Go to speeches. Go to town hall meetings. Donate money. Those are all forms of political participation. You don't have to just vote.

[QUOTE=Xen Tricks;25707837] Yea, I know. I'm just saying if he thinks it's in such a bad shape, he should do something. I don't particularly like America right now, but I wouldn't violently revolt. He led me to believe he would because of the blood of the tyrants comment.[/QUOTE] I did a report once on a girl who distributed fliers exposing nazi crimes etc... she was caught posting them one day at her university and was sentenced to death for slandering the nazi party or something. This is a new era, with new technology. Posting fliers won't do anymore. To maximize the spread of knowledge in this day and age one must use the internet. That's what I do here, on facepunch.

[QUOTE=ShukaidoX;25708002]I did a report once on a girl who distributed fliers exposing nazi crimes etc... she was caught posting them one day at her university and was sentenced to death for slandering the nazi party or something. This is a new era, with new technology. Posting fliers won't do anymore. To maximize the spread of knowledge in this day and age one must use the internet. That's what I do here, on facepunch.[/QUOTE] Now you're just trying to justify your actions to yourself. You're accomplishing nothing here by just posting, you've seen the board's reaction to it. Add in the fact that half the people here are in Britain, and it's more than useless. Go out into your community, go bug your local politicians, do something to raise support in a real manner. Just sitting at home and complaining that the government is evil will get you nowhere.

[QUOTE=Snuffy;25707945] There's more to participating in a democracy than voting. Write your congressman. Find a candidate you like, and sponsor him to your friends. Go to debates. Go to speeches. Go to town hall meetings. Donate money. Those are all forms of political participation. You don't have to just vote.[/QUOTE] Oh sure, lemme write my letter to the congressmen with an enclosed check of $500 to show my support. Oh? What's that? Congress passed a bill that corporations can donate as much as they want, and chevron already sent $400,000,000 to have the bill shot down? Well darn..

[QUOTE=ShukaidoX;25708167]Oh sure, lemme write my letter to the congressmen with an enclosed check of $500 to show my support. Oh? What's that? Congress passed a bill that corporations can donate as much as they want, and chevron already sent $400,000,000 to have the bill shot down? Well darn..[/QUOTE] Ok, so you're saying there's nothing you can do, because everyone is bought out? Then why do you bother pointing out the government's crimes if there's nothing anyone can do, and we're just screwed? Either go out and do what you can, anything, get other people to help and try and make a difference, or stop posting about it and caring. If all you can do is impotently say "the government is evil" while lounging in your chair, then you have nothing to offer.

[QUOTE=ShukaidoX;25708167]Oh sure, lemme write my letter to the congressmen with an enclosed check of $500 to show my support. Oh? What's that? Congress passed a bill that corporations can donate as much as they want, and chevron already sent $400,000,000 to have the bill shot down? Well darn..[/QUOTE] Hey, guess what? Not everybody is an evil, greedy bastard looking for power! Because not a lot of people bother participating more than voting in elections, most representatives actually don't get a lot of mail. A lot of people might have views on an issue, but only a few ever bother to make their voice heard, and one of those could be you. Stop being such a goddamned cynic for a moment and actually try to change something. If you don't bother doing anything, guess what happens. You know what? Things keep carrying on as normal. You can't do anything by just whining on some foreign forum.

[QUOTE=Snuffy;25707945]The survivors of the Civil Rights Movement, I'm sure, would like to disagree. That's a ridiculously cynical view that creates more problems than it explains.[/QUOTE] You've completely missed my point. When put in perspective, the situation the US is in right now is really, really not that bad that it absolutely must throw a revolution right this instant. People have too much to lose than they have to gain. No matter how cynical you think that sounds. And what problems exactly does it create? Do elaborate.

[QUOTE=Xen Tricks;25708236]Ok, so you're saying there's nothing you can do, because everyone is bought out? Then why do you bother pointing out the government's crimes if there's nothing anyone can do, and we're just screwed? Either go out and do what you can, anything, get other people to help and try and make a difference, or stop posting about it and caring. If all you can do is impotently say "the government is evil" while lounging in your chair, then you have nothing to offer.[/QUOTE] I'm posting all of this from my G2. That should say something. Not exactly lounging, and actually, I don't find this subject funny at all. I already said what people can do, they just need to be united to do it. All that I can do is offer my message to those who would listen, if you don't want to listen then leave the thread.

[QUOTE=AmericanInfantry;25707200]Because they'll lie to our faces about it. No one knows how or what happened during 9/11. If we would try to do an investigation, guess what the government will do? Begins with an "L".[/QUOTE] Love?

[QUOTE=Snuffy;25708309]Hey, guess what? Not everybody is an evil, greedy bastard looking for power![/QUOTE] Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

[QUOTE=ShukaidoX;25708684]I'm posting all of this from my G2. That should say something. Not exactly lounging, and actually, I don't find this subject funny at all. I already said what people can do, they just need to be united to do it. All that I can do is offer my message to those who would listen, if you don't want to listen then leave the thread.[/QUOTE] You're missing my point entirely. You're doing nothing to unite people, you keep saying you want something to happen and people have to be united but nothing will get done unless they're united and it's just one big circular discussion. People [i]aren't[/i] listening to your message, you've seen the reception you get here. Maybe 5 people out of every topic you post agree with you, if that. You don't even have a message, all you do is say the government is evil and has done this and that, but nothing comes of it. Like i've said a dozen times, go out and actually do something if you believe this, be the change you want to see. Raging against the US government on a forum where half the people are British, if not more, is pretty pointless. If you truly want to spread your message, if you truly want change, you would go out in the physical world and do something. All your excuses about bought off politicians are just that, excuses.

[QUOTE=MovingSalad;25705525]You guys are terrible at illustrating sarcasm through words. How the fuck am I supposed to tell what tone you're saying it. Conveying sarcasm takes objectivity and a certain obvious "In your face" look to it when it is described in words.[/QUOTE] I instantly detected it.

[QUOTE=Melnek;25708441]You've completely missed my point... People have too much to lose than they have to gain. No matter how cynical you think that sounds[/quote] Like the Civil Rights protestors didn't have anything to lose? They didn't have to worry about getting hosed down in the streets, losing their jobs, getting shot or being bombed in church? [quote]When put in perspective, the situation the US is in right now is really, really not that bad that it absolutely must throw a revolution right this instant.[/quote] I think this is true, but I don't agree with your reasons. [quote]And what problems exactly does it create? Do elaborate.[/QUOTE] Well, you said: [quote]It'd require a huge amount of dedication, and people are just too afraid to lose everything they have, their job, their friends or even their freedom if the police decides to throw you in jail for treason. And a criminal record is the last thing you want in times like these where the economy is getting worse and worse, meaning lower employment rates. [/quote] I think those are all pretty selfish reasons. If I revolt, I lose this, I lose that, I won't be happy, et cetera. People don't protest because they don't have anything to lose, they protest because they want to change something. To me, your argument seems to be "everyone is driven by basic motives; no one really wants change". People do want change, and not always for their personal betterment. It seems fairly elitist, and that's where the problems come from, whether it's "I'm not an elite, my opinions doesn't matter" or "I am an elite, you're all filthy uneducated proles" or "People are animals and don't care about the government- it's a democracy, so why should I?" [QUOTE=ShukaidoX;25708684]. All that I can do is offer my message to those who would listen, if you don't want to listen then leave the thread.[/QUOTE] I think you, of all people, should have already learned that "In The News" is Facepunch's central debating zone [editline]3:50PM[/editline] Debate with your peers! That's another way to get involved.