Georgia law allows guns in some schools, bars, churches
147 replies, posted
Most gun control in the US is pointless, and something I don't support. One reason, they normally want to limit certain types of guns, not based on crime states, but by looks. Pistols are used very frequently, but have a 3 day waiting period to legally purchase, and in most cases you require a background check. The most shit I've seen people raise about pistols, is limiting ammo capacity, something no criminal gives two shits about. They want to ban assault rifles instead, although no one in the US can just go out and buy an assault rifle without some sort of thing from the ATF. AR-15's, and other civilian rifles based off the military counterparts are literally just normal semi auto rifles, that look like the military version. Again, people also want to limit ammo, but no criminal gives a fuck. The other one I saw was people want to limit how much ammo a person can buy, as well as requiring background checks and registration for ammo. That'll totally go over well if that ever passed. People like me help to stop shit like that from passing because that just inconveniences good people who just want some ammo for one of their hobbies. If I want to buy 2,000 rounds, chances are its because i plan on stocking up, or I plan on shooting all weekend long with some friends at the range. I don't care if that scares you, nor do I care if my "military assault weapon" scares you. Also, to add to the rant, can gun controllers stop using kids to further their goals? When the facts don't support you, don't turn to emotion.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;44670806]I'd disagree with you on that there would be no way to make guns less available to criminals, but by and large I agree with you there.
Slowly building up a registry wouldn't be a bad idea in my opinion, though.[/QUOTE]
Except for the fact that registries have, time and again, proven to be useless when combating gun crime and are only used to confiscate firearms from law-abiding gun owners. Canada is a prime example of both.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;44670806]I'd disagree with you on that there would be no way to make guns less available to criminals, but by and large I agree with you there.
Slowly building up a registry wouldn't be a bad idea in my opinion, though.[/QUOTE]
Registrations have been shown to backfire terribly, and in the cases of places like NY and California, they are being removed or to a certain degree being challenged in the Supreme Court.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;44670806]I'd disagree with you on that there would be no way to make guns less available to criminals, but by and large I agree with you there.
Slowly building up a registry wouldn't be a bad idea in my opinion, though.[/QUOTE]
Gun registries are completely useless. Like literally useless. Even Canada got rid of their longgun registry recently because of how much a useless pos it was. Unless the registry was set up before the first musket entered the country, then the registry wont work because there will be unregistered firearms floating around
furthermore all registries do is turn law abiding people into paper criminals.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;44670721]I suppose you talk from experience? Generally criminals want to run as little a risk as possible.[/QUOTE]
I'd say being robbed at knifepoint in South Chicago and of course being un-armed due to 'tard anti-gun laws would be experience..
What criminal is going to try to make people suffer in an area where he KNOWS people carry firearms?
Like you just said, Criminals want to run as little risk as possible..
[editline]29th April 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Pilot1215;44671048]Most gun control in the US is pointless, and something I don't support. One reason, they normally want to limit certain types of guns, not based on crime states, but by looks. Pistols are used very frequently, but have a 3 day waiting period to legally purchase, and in most cases you require a background check. The most shit I've seen people raise about pistols, is limiting ammo capacity, something no criminal gives two shits about. They want to ban assault rifles instead, although no one in the US can just go out and buy an assault rifle without some sort of thing from the ATF. AR-15's, and other civilian rifles based off the military counterparts are literally just normal semi auto rifles, that look like the military version. Again, people also want to limit ammo, but no criminal gives a fuck. The other one I saw was people want to limit how much ammo a person can buy, as well as requiring background checks and registration for ammo. That'll totally go over well if that ever passed. People like me help to stop shit like that from passing because that just inconveniences good people who just want some ammo for one of their hobbies. If I want to buy 2,000 rounds, chances are its because i plan on stocking up, or I plan on shooting all weekend long with some friends at the range. I don't care if that scares you, nor do I care if my "military assault weapon" scares you. Also, to add to the rant, can gun controllers stop using kids to further their goals? When the facts don't support you, don't turn to emotion.[/QUOTE]
Emotion based arguments:
Talking points for those who are pampered and unreasonably afraid.
[QUOTE=Berque-IL;44675328]I'd say being robbed at knifepoint in South Chicago and of course being un-armed due to 'tard anti-gun laws would be experience..
What criminal is going to try to make people suffer in an area where he KNOWS people carry firearms?
Like you just said, Criminals want to run as little risk as possible..
[/QUOTE]
Were you hurt? Did he dismember you?
What would you rather? Have a knife/gun and risk pointlessly escalating the situation, or hand over your mobile phone and whatever cash you have on you?
[QUOTE=Berque-IL;44661188]Do you NEED to have a Facepunch account?
Also, to say that firearms are just straight up incapable of preventing crime is as out of touch as it gets.
Here is just one case out of many where a firearm prevented further human suffering.
[url]http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-man-armed-confronts-mall-shooter-183593571.html[/url]
I'll be happy to provide PLENTY more sources if you'd like..
[editline]27th April 2014[/editline]
No one is forcing them to carry.[/QUOTE]
Not only did you just insult me for no reason whatsoever, you also provided a source that conflicts with your statement. The guy didn't use a firearm at all. He grabbed it, but didn't fire. The gunman probably never even saw it.
But in the off chance you are actually right in that it prevents a lot of crimes, it still doesn't mean a lot.
Take [URL="http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Murders-with-firearms-per-million"]these statistics[/URL] for example.
The US has more murders with firearms than Mexico. By quite a lot too. This is murders per million population. This source is rather outdated though, coming out of 2002. The amount of murders probably decreased a lot. But do you know what also happened in those 12 years? School shootings. What happened after those shootings? Tighter firearm regulations.
Anyway, to cut it short, I am not saying guns can't prevent crimes. I'm just saying in 9/10 cases they won't prevent anything. Even in the source you provided, nothing happened.
[editline]29th April 2014[/editline]
To top it off, I really don't give a shit if you want tighter or more relaxed firearm regulations, because honestly I don't care about those. I just hope you're not genuinely dense enough to ignore everything I'm saying.
[editline]29th April 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Berque-IL;44675328]I'd say being robbed at knifepoint in South Chicago and of course being un-armed due to 'tard anti-gun laws would be experience..
What criminal is going to try to make people suffer in an area where he KNOWS people carry firearms?
Like you just said, Criminals want to run as little risk as possible..
[editline]29th April 2014[/editline]
Emotion based arguments:
Talking points for those who are pampered and unreasonably afraid.[/QUOTE]
Fairly sure it's been proven that pistols are absolutely useless against a target armed with a knife within 15 yards, unless you already have it pointed at him.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;44676521]Were you hurt? Did he dismember you?
What would you rather? Have a knife/gun and risk pointlessly escalating the situation, or hand over your mobile phone and whatever cash you have on you?[/QUOTE]
I'd rather scare a guy off who most likely won't shoot to begin with rather than losing all my ID's, all my bank cards, all the cash on my person, and my $500 cell phone.
[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;44677872]I'd rather scare a guy off who most likely won't shoot to begin with rather than losing all my ID's, all my bank cards, all the cash on my person, and my $500 cell phone.[/QUOTE]
Well, I can't help but think that that an incredibly dumb viewpoint. Get insurance or something - don't risk your life over a few id cards and something that'll be covered by insurance anyway.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;44678033]Well, I can't help but think that that an incredibly dumb viewpoint. Get insurance or something - don't risk your life over a few id cards and something that'll be covered by insurance anyway.[/QUOTE]
What insurance covers items on your person while walking down the street?
[QUOTE=darunner;44679473]What insurance covers items on your person while walking down the street?[/QUOTE]
Non-shit insurance? At least my brother was covered when he got robbed a while back.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;44679570]Non-shit insurance? At least my brother was covered when he got robbed a while back.[/QUOTE]
and they replaced everything from the cash in his wallet to the SD card in his phone?
[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;44679624]and they replaced everything from the cash in his wallet to the SD card in his phone?[/QUOTE]
As far as I remember? Sure, you had to get new IDs yourself, but it's not like that's a huge amount of money. I think the health insurance card is like $50 to replace, but I can't remember whether that applies when you get robbed or not.
Anyway, even without insurance covering that, I wouldn't submit myself to more risk than needed. Call me sheltered or whatever (and I completely understand that poor families can afford neither insurance nor the replacement of stolen goods), but I think you should simply try to minimize risk to your health as much as possible.
And honestly who goes around with all their riches in cash? Get a credit card. I normally go around with $50 in cash tops, and that's basically only when I know I'm gonna need cash. Generally I have nothing but my credit card with me.
[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;44679624]and they replaced everything from the cash in his wallet to the SD card in his phone?[/QUOTE]
I know insurance in the US is one of the biggest piles of awful in the world, but most insurers I've looked at for possessions insurance do cover theft, mugging, etc. and will replace all stolen items (within your policy anyway, so keep that up to date). "My insurance won't cover it" still isn't really a reason to risk escalating a situation and losing your life over a phone that costs a few hundred dollars, if you report the crime the investigation team should try and recover stolen items (though from what you guys keep telling me about the US police, "it's not their job", when it should be).
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;44676521]Were you hurt? Did he dismember you?
What would you rather? Have a knife/gun and risk pointlessly escalating the situation, or hand over your mobile phone and whatever cash you have on you?[/QUOTE]
No because a fellow Chicagoan with a Glock 19 in his vehicle saw what was going on. He pulled up, withdrew his firearm and immediately scared off my attacker. And THAT's what happens when people can defend themselves.
Me having a firearm is not going to escalate the situation. I've been shooting since I was 6 and did 2 years active duty Army. Why do you just assume that all gun owners are incompetent?
Me having a firearm is going to scare off the attacker, or the attacker will continue to escalate the situation and get shot in the fucking face.
It's REEEEALLY simple shit dude.
Edit:
And no dude..I'm not handing over my wallet like some spineless Chicago liberal. I will not be a fucking victim yet again. Besides, my military ID is in my wallet...I can't get another one because I'm discharged now. Loosing my military ID would be a bad thing as I'm in the process of receiving VA Compensation..
I did hand over my wallet once in a home invasion where me and 5 others saw a good friend get shot and killed right in front of us...couldn't do anything about it because we were hogtied and not legally able to have a firearm in our residence being that we were active duty Army at the time.
Handing over my wallet in that situation was a big fuckup and caused me lots of issues down the road due to losing my military ID.
"derp just hand over ur wallet its not worth itt"
Stop with that fucking shit, dude. It's pussy shit and there's no reason for criminals to get away with it. People just giving away their wallets are the reason more criminals are attracted to a certain part of a state. They know they can prey on the sheep without harm to their life.
I don't know if people these days are just pampered as shit and would rather get raped or beat up than put up a stand, but it's really spineless shit.
[QUOTE=Berque-IL;44680106]No because a fellow Chicagoan with a Glock 19 in his vehicle saw what was going on. He pulled up, withdrew his firearm and immediately scared off my attacker. And THAT's what happens when people can defend themselves.
Me having a firearm is not going to escalate the situation. I've been shooting since I was 6 and did 2 years active duty Army. Why do you just assume that all gun owners are incompetent?
Me having a firearm is going to scare off the attacker, or the attacker will continue to escalate the situation and get shot in the fucking face.
It's REEEEALLY simple shit dude.[/QUOTE]
lmao
Fucking wild west around here.
Shooting the attacker in the face is an escalation as well. Whether it's you or the attacker, there's no need for anyone to die over a smartphone and a few bucks. This isn't a third world country, get a grip.
[QUOTE=Berque-IL;44680106]No because a fellow Chicagoan with a Glock 19 in his vehicle saw what was going on. He pulled up, withdrew his firearm and immediately scared off my attacker. And THAT's what happens when people can defend themselves.
Me having a firearm is not going to escalate the situation. I've been shooting since I was 6 and did 2 years active duty Army. Why do you just assume that all gun owners are incompetent?
Me having a firearm is going to scare off the attacker, or the attacker will continue to escalate the situation and get shot in the fucking face.
It's REEEEALLY simple shit dude.[/QUOTE]
You're at knifepoint, this means the mugger got the drop on you. How is your gun going to scare the mugger away? You flash it to him, he knows you're armed and he's in control, he could just take that from you if needed. You try and draw? You're at knifepoint dumbass, he can just stab your ass before you've drawn, you try and disarm him? Well, as you guys love to point out, life isn't an action film, you're probably gonna get fucked up for moving suddenly.
So, how will a gun solve a mugging? Maybe if someone else comes across you being mugged sure, but muggers aren't totally dense, they won't mug you in broad daylight in the middle of the street, and are likely to run no matter what the person who intervenes is holding.
Also shooting since you're a kid and having military service is irrelevant to the argument, a situation escalating isn't due to incompetence with the firearms, it's due to a total lack of critical thought, "hey, maybe I should risk putting my life in even more danger to save my iPod from this guy!".
You can't accuse others of living in "la-la land" when you see the world like you clearly do. (also I'm pretty sure you're not meant to be here dude)
[editline]29th April 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Berque-IL;44680106]And no dude..I'm not handing over my wallet like some spineless Chicago liberal.[/QUOTE]
lmao get the fuck out of here Savyetski. If you're being mugged, you're a victim no matter the outcome.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;44680159]You're at knifepoint, this means the mugger got the drop on you. How is your gun going to scare the mugger away? You flash it to him, he knows you're armed and he's in control, he could just take that from you if needed. You try and draw? You're at knifepoint dumbass, he can just stab your ass before you've drawn, you try and disarm him? Well, as you guys love to point out, life isn't an action film, you're probably gonna get fucked up for moving suddenly.
So, how will a gun solve a mugging? Maybe if someone else comes across you being mugged sure, but muggers aren't totally dense, they won't mug you in broad daylight in the middle of the street, and are likely to run no matter what the person who intervenes is holding.
Also shooting since you're a kid and having military service is irrelevant to the argument, a situation escalating isn't due to incompetence with the firearms, it's due to a total lack of critical thought, "hey, maybe I should risk putting my life in even more danger to save my iPod from this guy!".
You can't accuse others of living in "la-la land" when you see the world like you clearly do. (also I'm pretty sure you're not meant to be here dude)
[editline]29th April 2014[/editline]
lmao get the fuck out of here Savyetski. If you're being mugged, you're a victim no matter the outcome.[/QUOTE]
I don't know dude.
Ask this grandma how a gun vs. knife situation works and then proceed to take your baby blue eyes off my gun rights.
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKxBxwnVu-E[/url]
[quote]You can't accuse others of living in "la-la land" when you see the world like you clearly do. (also I'm pretty sure you're not meant to be here dude)[/quote]
WTF are you even saying?
I can absolutely accuse people of being pampered and living in la-la land when it comes to firearms. I've been the victim of violent crime more than once now, one instance which was at the end of a gun. So yeah, I'd say I certainly can have an opinion on the matter.
[QUOTE=Berque-IL;44680226]I don't know dude.
Ask this grandma how a gun vs. knife situation works and then proceed to take your baby blue eyes off my gun rights.
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKxBxwnVu-E[/url][/QUOTE]
Rurrr rrrurrrr coming to get your guns rurrr liberal freedom for all. Britain stronk.
man I love some anecdotal evidence, it totally helps me know who to listen to and who not to. I mean, I know you're bad at this because you've been perma'd for it in the past, but you just keep doing it anyway.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;44680245]Rurrr rrrurrrr coming to get your guns rurrr liberal freedom for all. Britain stronk.
man I love some anecdotal evidence, it totally helps me know who to listen to and who not to. I mean, I know you're bad at this because you've been perma'd for it in the past, but you just keep doing it anyway.[/QUOTE]
ruuurr ruuurrr...anyone who owns a gun is a nut and gives handjobs on a daily basis to other nutjob idiot Americans.
See, I can play your stupid fucking games as well.
Are you going to keep crying or actually watch the real world situation that I just presented for you?
[QUOTE=Berque-IL;44680261]Are you going to keep crying or actually watch the real world situation that I just presented for you?[/QUOTE]
Are you going to find some real statistics or just keep citing anecdotes? Stats are pretty fucking real world, anecdotes are cherry picked "results".
[editline]29th April 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Berque-IL;44680226]WTF are you even saying?
I can absolutely accuse people of being pampered and living in la-la land when it comes to firearms. I've been the victim of violent crime more than once now, one instance which was at the end of a gun. So yeah, I'd say I certainly can have an opinion on the matter.[/QUOTE]
Cool, you're allowed opinions on the matter, but you always resort to insulting people who don't share that opinion. Like, every time. Accusing anyone who doesn't think guns are the solution to the worlds problems of living in "la-la" land is the ultimate in handwavium.
[url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/01/chicago-homicide-rate-2014_n_5070438.html[/url]
"Citing newly-released police data, the Sun-Times reports Chicago's first quarter of 2014 tallied the lowest number of homicides since 1958. The numbers reflect six fewer homicides than the same period in 2013, and 55 fewer homicides since the same time in 2012. "
I don't care if it was winter when concealed carry was passed in illinois...why did many criminals all of sudden stop pulling their shit in unison as soon as it was passed?
Guns in a bar with Drunk people is never any good
[QUOTE=hexpunK;44680267]Are you going to find some real statistics or just keep citing anecdotes? Stats are pretty fucking real world, anecdotes are cherry picked "results".
[editline]29th April 2014[/editline]
Cool, you're allowed opinions on the matter, but you always resort to insulting people who don't share that opinion. Like, every time. Accusing anyone who doesn't think guns are the solution to the worlds problems of living in "la-la" land is the ultimate in handwavium.[/QUOTE]
Bro, I really don't give a shit if someones solution to crime [b]isn't[/b] using a firearm.
The people that live in la-la land are the ones that take a single anecdotal case, like a kid bringing a gun to school and they say stupid shit like "oh see you guys..this is why no civilian should be allowed to own any firearm evur". I just saw this stupid shit here on FP the other day.
As far as insulting people!?
[b]"Rurrr rrrurrrr coming to get your guns rurrr liberal freedom for all."[/b]
Yeah, that's kind of a personal insult..especially when several US Politicians have openly shown that they openly advocate gun confiscation.
[editline]29th April 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Mio Akiyama;44680356]Guns in a bar with Drunk people is never any good[/QUOTE]
I completely agree.
[QUOTE=Berque-IL;44680327][url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/01/chicago-homicide-rate-2014_n_5070438.html[/url]
"Citing newly-released police data, the Sun-Times reports Chicago's first quarter of 2014 tallied the lowest number of homicides since 1958. The numbers reflect six fewer homicides than the same period in 2013, and 55 fewer homicides since the same time in 2012. "
I don't care if it was winter when concealed carry was passed in illinois...why did many criminals all of sudden stop pulling their shit in unison as soon as it was passed?[/QUOTE]
Well done for actually putting the work in. That was nice.
Okay, so this is over the first quarter right? 6 fewer homicides compared to 2013 isn't much, 55 since 2012 shows a trend, looking at the historic data there's been a downwards trend for the last decade anyway, 2012 is an exceptionally high year for some reason.
[quote=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Chicago#Murders]
2003: 601[35]
2004: 453[35]
2005: 451[35]
2006: 471[35]
2007: 448[35]
2008: 513[35]
2009: 459[35]
2010: 436[35]
2011: 435[35]
2012: 516[36]
2013: 415[37]
[/quote]
But there's been a declining trend in homicide for the last decade anyway, so perhaps it wasn't the introduction of concealed carry? Others factors may have had a much greater impact, it's been a fairly consistent decline barring 3 outlying years. Criminals are still likely to continue mugging in fairly high numbers because it's Chicago, it'll take more than CC to fix that problem, it's a socio-economic one. They'll just be packing themselves when they can now so they don't have to risk their knives being out of range of their victim.
[editline]29th April 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Berque-IL;44680377]As far as insulting people!?
[b]"Rurrr rrrurrrr coming to get your guns rurrr liberal freedom for all."[/b]
Yeah, that's kind of a personal insult..especially when several US Politicians have openly shown that they openly advocate gun confiscation.[/QUOTE]
You took that personally? Ahahaha holy fucking shit guy. The second you start taking that shit personally, I start getting concerned for your damn mental well-being. It's fucking guns, it's not your right to participate or freedom of speech we're talking about here. It's fucking weapons. That wasn't even an insult, anybody can see that's satire of the stereotypes. Much like you keep doing about "liberals".
[QUOTE=Berque-IL;44680327][url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/01/chicago-homicide-rate-2014_n_5070438.html[/url]
"Citing newly-released police data, the Sun-Times reports Chicago's first quarter of 2014 tallied the lowest number of homicides since 1958. The numbers reflect six fewer homicides than the same period in 2013, and 55 fewer homicides since the same time in 2012. "
I don't care if it was winter when concealed carry was passed in illinois...why did many criminals all of sudden stop pulling their shit in unison as soon as it was passed?[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/vhnQmcb.png[/IMG]
It's easy when you cherry pick your years.
Same as Hexpunk's data, just in a graph. I like those.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;44680416]You took that personally? Ahahaha holy fucking shit guy. The second you start taking that shit personally, I start getting concerned for your damn mental well-being. It's fucking guns, it's not your right to participate or freedom of speech we're talking about here. It's fucking weapons. That wasn't even an insult, anybody can see that's satire of the stereotypes. Much like you keep doing about "liberals".[/QUOTE]
Actually, the right to bear arms is the same as your right to free speech. They are both constitutional rights.
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;44680465]Actually, the right to bear arms is the same as your right to free speech. They are both constitutional rights.[/QUOTE]
The constitution gets changed a ton. Anything written in it is not concrete. And saying the right to own weapons is on par with the right to freely criticize the guys in charge is just silly. It was a document written in a time of paranoia that we'd be back, or that your newly installed government would pull a Britain and start fucking you over again. It was written to be changed for the times, not to stagnate as the conservatives would like.
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;44680465]Actually, the right to bear arms is the same as your right to free speech. They are both constitutional rights.[/QUOTE]
Sure, I'd say freedom of speech is a bit more important. You might say that "Oh, but the 2nd amendment protects free speech", but what's more important? The guard or the thing being guarded? And I'd also argue that the 2nd amendment doesn't in any way serve that purpose today anyway.
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;44680465]Actually, the right to bear arms is the same as your right to free speech. They are both constitutional rights.[/QUOTE]
Sshhh...this is a logic free zone....
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