• Tesla Voluntarily Recalls Entire Model S Fleet
    51 replies, posted
[QUOTE=rampageturke 2;49154773]none of this means you can just shrug of 25-50k mile critical failures[/QUOTE] No, but big automobile manufacturers do it all the time. That's what I'm saying here. This isn't uncommon, this isn't Tesla being unusually shit, this is just the way cars are.
[QUOTE=RearAdmiral;49153274]Well at least they did the responsible thing and issued a voluntary recall. If the Ford Pinto showed us anything it's that ignoring safety features to save money is not a good idea.[/QUOTE] Dunno, usually people don't give a shit when a corporation puts its profits before peoples lives.
[QUOTE=woolio1;49155198]No, but big automobile manufacturers do it all the time. That's what I'm saying here. This isn't uncommon, this isn't Tesla being unusually shit, this is just the way cars are.[/QUOTE] Really? It seems like it's a big deal when cars have issues after 50k+ miles, but I've never heard of a car, especially one with such praise, that has consistent issues sub 50k.
[QUOTE=Amiga OS;49153671]Build quality has gone up, their design is more on point (more of their products are starting to assume a consistent aesthetic) but as far as I know their customer service is still complete shit so they have to improve there still.[/QUOTE] Their enterprise service for their servers is still god tier. Same with any of their business support really.
The good thing about Tesla is that they are continually making a better car. They make on average 20 changes per week, rather than waiting for the new year model. The drive unit issue is a big deal, but Tesla replaces them for free at the sign of the slightest issue and apparently the drive units going out the past few months are supposed to have the issue resolved. The AWD cars are also much more reliable than the RWD ones and the Model X is only AWD. I wouldn't be surprised if Tesla dropped the RWD Model S variant to.
[QUOTE=Zephyrs;49154605]It's a tri phase electric motor. They were invented in the late 1800s. This is not new technology. And furthermore it's extremely well tested and vetted technology. There's thousands/millions of tri phase motors that have been running in heavy industrial settings nearly continuously for years. The general consensus seems to be that the problems are stemming from an induction problem across the bearing casing leading to excessive wear. This is a problem that has been solved in industrial tri phase motors for the better part of a century. Regardless of the cause, it is inexcusable that a fixed gear ratio drive train with a tri phase motor is [i]consistently[/i] failing after what is, relatively speaking, quite minimal use. One of the major selling points of electric cars is the fact that their drive train is far simpler, and has far fewer pieces that [i]could[/i] fail, let alone actually fail. Telsa has unequivocally failed in this regard. The battery warranty does not cover degradation. It only covers failures. More to the point, who honestly gives a fuck what the warranty is when you have a car that is practically guaranteed to have critical components fail shortly after going out of the warranty? Sure if you are a person who only leases their cars, none of this is important to you, but the fact remains that the Model S (and probably the Model X since the drive train is virtually identical) is extremely failure prone. As for their extended service agreement? Why don't you read it. There's significant deductibles whereas most manufacturers offer no deductible for most items. Tesla also charges the deductible per maintenance issue, not per service visit, unlike nearly every other extended service agreement in existence.[/QUOTE] Drive one. You'll stop caring pretty quickly. Nah but on a serious note you seem like you know what you're talking about, which means you should also know that these industrial developments won't cleanly translate to a car. Presumably these industrial solutions you're citing aren't intended for a vehicle in which every ounce counts, so it's very likely they can't just drop in previous convention. There's also not a lot of 50k+ mile Model S's on the road, and considering Tesla's constant refinement of the car, it's possible massive drive train tweaks have already been implemented and we just don't know it yet.
[QUOTE=Flicky;49153275]While this is all in the name of customer safety and is a very morally respectable thing to do, is such a move entirely necessary for [i]one[/i] seatbelt being connected improperly? Though I guess that's why it's a voluntary recall. I just hope this doesn't do anything to damage Tesla's image, or that of electric cars in general. I can just see some uneducated people saying "well how can I trust an electric car if Tesla had to recall their entire fleet of them?"[/QUOTE] Yes, it's a seat belt, arguably *the* most important and most basic safety feature within a vehicle.
[QUOTE=Supacasey;49157609]Drive one. You'll stop caring pretty quickly. Nah but on a serious note you seem like you know what you're talking about, which means you should also know that these industrial developments won't cleanly translate to a car. Presumably these industrial solutions you're citing aren't intended for a vehicle in which every ounce counts, so it's very likely they can't just drop in previous convention. There's also not a lot of 50k+ mile Model S's on the road, and considering Tesla's constant refinement of the car, it's possible massive drive train tweaks have already been implemented and we just don't know it yet.[/QUOTE] Last I heard the larger drive unit was up to revision "Q". While AC motors aren't completely new technology, most motors in the past have had to deal with a relatively small average to max power ratio. The drive unit in the S has a pretty huge range, on the RWD models this thing is taking ~350KW of energy if you put your foot down going up to 18k RPM, compared to maybe 6KW or so if you are cruising at 30 MPH. It's also being used for regen braking to. Not many applications that I can think of put a motor through such a wide range of conditions.
[QUOTE=Amiga OS;49153671]Build quality has gone up, their design is more on point (more of their products are starting to assume a consistent aesthetic) but as far as I know their customer service is still complete shit so they have to improve there still.[/QUOTE] My dad got a brand spankin new 12" dell ultrabook at work, it's quite nice. The 6420s and 30s were ugly af.
Apparently Tesla have sent out people to a few Superchargers in the U.S and will check this issue for you and resolve it if necessary while your car charges.
How ridiculous. Recalling thousands of cars over a [i]single[/i] loose bolt is a massive waste of time and resources. Hit the offending bolt with the proper tool, send the customer on their way, go back to fucking around with silly 'land the lifter' rocket projects. [editline]23rd November 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Forumaster;49158810]Yes, it's a seat belt, arguably *the* most important and most basic safety feature within a vehicle.[/QUOTE] It's also only one bolt on one car. The proper response is to tighten that particular bolt and send the owner on their way, not recall thousands upon thousands of cars in a MASSIVE waste of time and resources. Shit happens from time to time. You don't see thousands upon thousands of cars getting recalled because the assembly line robots didn't torque a single rod bolt. No, that specific car just gets a warranty engine replacement and it's back on the road. It's no different here. One loose bolt on one car is not indicative of a problem worth recalling so many cars. Just tighten the offending bolt and call it a day, perhaps doublecheck the assembly line robot as well. People already look at recalls with annoyance and disdain as it is. Best to have a good reason to issue one, and I'm sorry but one loose bolt on one car is not a good reason to do that. It's only going to make people laugh at recalls even more.
[QUOTE=TestECull;49169558]How ridiculous. Recalling thousands of cars over a [i]single[/i] loose bolt is a massive waste of time and resources. Hit the offending bolt with the proper tool, send the customer on their way, go back to fucking around with silly 'land the lifter' rocket projects. [editline]23rd November 2015[/editline] It's also only one bolt on one car. The proper response is to tighten that particular bolt and send the owner on their way, not recall thousands upon thousands of cars in a MASSIVE waste of time and resources. Shit happens from time to time. You don't see thousands upon thousands of cars getting recalled because the assembly line robots didn't torque a single rod bolt. No, that specific car just gets a warranty engine replacement and it's back on the road. It's no different here. One loose bolt on one car is not indicative of a problem worth recalling so many cars. Just tighten the offending bolt and call it a day, perhaps doublecheck the assembly line robot as well. People already look at recalls with annoyance and disdain as it is. Best to have a good reason to issue one, and I'm sorry but one loose bolt on one car is not a good reason to do that. It's only going to make people laugh at recalls even more.[/QUOTE] This is a voluntary recall dude. If you want to, you can get it checked. Otherwise you don't have to. I don't see how you frame this as anything but good customer service.
[QUOTE=TestECull;49169558]How ridiculous. Recalling thousands of cars over a [i]single[/i] loose bolt is a massive waste of time and resources. [B]Hit the offending bolt with the proper tool, send the customer on their way[/B], go back to fucking around with silly 'land the lifter' rocket projects. [/QUOTE] Literally what they're doing. You're not even reading the full source before posting are you.
[QUOTE=TestECull;49169558]How ridiculous. Recalling thousands of cars over a [i]single[/i] loose bolt is a massive waste of time and resources. Hit the offending bolt with the proper tool, send the customer on their way, go back to fucking around with silly 'land the lifter' rocket projects.[/QUOTE] [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AKC2oWEhyw]That's exactly what they're doing.[/url] They've sent technicians out to popular superchargers, who do a quick few minute check while the vehicle is charging. Otherwise, it's just something that will be done as part of a standard service, unless you wish to send it in early. It's not like they're replacing the cars or anything, just adding an extra checkbox to the service list. I know you have a hate boner for tesla, and electric cars as a concept, but this is just pathetic.
[QUOTE=TestECull;49169558]How ridiculous. Recalling thousands of cars over a [i]single[/i] loose bolt is a massive waste of time and resources. Hit the offending bolt with the proper tool, send the customer on their way, go back to fucking around with silly 'land the lifter' rocket projects. [editline]23rd November 2015[/editline] It's also only one bolt on one car. The proper response is to tighten that particular bolt and send the owner on their way, not recall thousands upon thousands of cars in a MASSIVE waste of time and resources. Shit happens from time to time. You don't see thousands upon thousands of cars getting recalled because the assembly line robots didn't torque a single rod bolt. No, that specific car just gets a warranty engine replacement and it's back on the road. It's no different here. One loose bolt on one car is not indicative of a problem worth recalling so many cars. Just tighten the offending bolt and call it a day, perhaps doublecheck the assembly line robot as well. People already look at recalls with annoyance and disdain as it is. Best to have a good reason to issue one, and I'm sorry but one loose bolt on one car is not a good reason to do that. It's only going to make people laugh at recalls even more.[/QUOTE] Try to fucking read next time, thanks.
[QUOTE=TestECull;49169558]How ridiculous. Recalling thousands of cars over a [I]single[/I] loose bolt is a massive waste of time and resources. Hit the offending bolt with the proper tool, send the customer on their way, go back to fucking around with silly 'land the lifter' rocket projects. [editline]23rd November 2015[/editline] It's also only one bolt on one car. The proper response is to tighten that particular bolt and send the owner on their way, not recall thousands upon thousands of cars in a MASSIVE waste of time and resources. Shit happens from time to time. You don't see thousands upon thousands of cars getting recalled because the assembly line robots didn't torque a single rod bolt. No, that specific car just gets a warranty engine replacement and it's back on the road. It's no different here. One loose bolt on one car is not indicative of a problem worth recalling so many cars. Just tighten the offending bolt and call it a day, perhaps doublecheck the assembly line robot as well. People already look at recalls with annoyance and disdain as it is. Best to have a good reason to issue one, and I'm sorry but one loose bolt on one car is not a good reason to do that. It's only going to make people laugh at recalls even more.[/QUOTE] and this is why no one likes you. it's not like they could force you to bring your car in anyway.
[QUOTE=Zephyrs;49154605]It's a tri phase electric motor. They were invented in the late 1800s. This is not new technology. And furthermore it's extremely well tested and vetted technology. There's thousands/millions of tri phase motors that have been running in heavy industrial settings nearly continuously for years. The general consensus seems to be that the problems are stemming from an induction problem across the bearing casing leading to excessive wear. This is a problem that has been solved in industrial tri phase motors for the better part of a century. Regardless of the cause, it is inexcusable that a fixed gear ratio drive train with a tri phase motor is [I]consistently[/I] failing after what is, relatively speaking, quite minimal use. One of the major selling points of electric cars is the fact that their drive train is far simpler, and has far fewer pieces that [I]could[/I] fail, let alone actually fail. Telsa has unequivocally failed in this regard. The battery warranty does not cover degradation. It only covers failures. More to the point, who honestly gives a fuck what the warranty is when you have a car that is practically guaranteed to have critical components fail shortly after going out of the warranty? Sure if you are a person who only leases their cars, none of this is important to you, but the fact remains that the Model S (and probably the Model X since the drive train is virtually identical) is extremely failure prone. As for their extended service agreement? Why don't you read it. There's significant deductibles whereas most manufacturers offer no deductible for most items. Tesla also charges the deductible per maintenance issue, not per service visit, unlike nearly every other extended service agreement in existence.[/QUOTE] Industrial motors are built for constant use with few start/stop cycles. Cars, on the other hand, start and stop very regularly. The usage profile is very different. Not to mention industrial motors are bolted to a concrete floor, which in turn usually rests directly on the Earth. Again, very different usage conditions compared to a car where the whole assembly accelerates and decelerates.
[QUOTE=Headhumpy;49171636]Industrial motors are built for constant use with few start/stop cycles. Cars, on the other hand, start and stop very regularly. The usage profile is very different.[/QUOTE] The start/stop cycle will vary tremendously depending on what the motor is doing. There are plenty of cases where motors spin up and down constantly, and there are plenty of cases where the motors are subjected to wildly variable amounts of extreme torque. Hydraulic systems are something that spring immediately to mind. Granted, a car is on the extreme end of what your typical motor will go through, but that brings us back full circle to the following point. Again, it's not exactly new tech, and one of, if not [i]the[/i] major selling point of EVs is high reliability leading to very low costs of operation. That doesn't mean a car has to be reliable. It just means that if you are unable deliver that, you have a luxury toy, and nothing more. [QUOTE=Headhumpy;49171636]Not to mention industrial motors are bolted to a concrete floor, which in turn usually rests directly on the Earth. Again, very different usage conditions compared to a car where the whole assembly accelerates and decelerates.[/QUOTE] The motor is moving relative to the earth.... what of it? That's just a frame of reference. It's irrelevant. The motor isn't moving relative to what it's bolted onto in either case. The g forces from hitting potholes, accelerating/braking, and other things like that pale in comparison to the internal stresses the motor will generate itself during basic operation. By that logic all of these motors should fall apart because the Earth is moving relative to the frame of reference of the sun, the solar system orbits the galaxy, the galaxy is accelerating away from some other random galaxy on the edge of the observable universe, etc.
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