Donald Trump flips his stance on torture; killing terrorists families - Polidicks

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49879105]AMERICA IS GREAT BECAUSE WE TORTURE ANYONE WHO ISNT AMERICAN WHO LOOKS AT US FUNNY AMERICA AMERICA - wystan [editline]6th March 2016[/editline] Recap the history for us then buckaroo[/QUOTE] If you really want to shoulder blame, blame the French and English for partitioning the Ottoman Empire after World War I. [editline]6th March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Saturn V;49879124]how representative is he of the general american mindset?[/QUOTE] I'm an outlier.

[QUOTE=wystan;49879139]I'm an outlier.[/QUOTE] thank fuck

[QUOTE=J!NX;49879039]here's the total budget of nasa over 50 years VS 2011's military budget[/QUOTE] That isn't the whole military budget though, that's DoD plus 3 unaffiliated government agencies. Nitpicking I know and it doesn't defeat the point that one year of military funding almost outweighs 60 years of space agency. [QUOTE=J!NX;49879039]We are spending more money on a lethal army than we are investing in preserving humanity, and education[/QUOTE] Yeah this is just a chart full of unrelated things. What does the UN budget have to do with anything? A skyscraper? Frankly the thing that angers me is the federal government spending $100 billion of my taxes in an area they have repeatedly shown incompetence in. [editline]6th March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=UnidentifiedFlyingTard;49879058]Are you fucking joking?[/QUOTE] It depends. Military spending is fine if you want to keep the current force projection capabilities and uphold standing military obligations abroad. The forces (especially Navy and Army) are starting to get pretty lean after the latest cuts.

[QUOTE=wystan;49879139]If you really want to shoulder blame, blame the French and English for partitioning the Ottoman Empire after World War I. [editline]6th March 2016[/editline] I'm an outlier.[/QUOTE] No Recap the history that makes america 100% not responsible for anything over there

[QUOTE=Saturn V;49879167]thank fuck[/QUOTE] To be fair, if you could imagine a more moderate version of me, that isn't uncommon. No common person would defend publicly torture to the length I do but I don't reveal my power level in public.

[QUOTE=wystan;49879059]Deterrence, Power projection, etc.[/QUOTE] Torture doesn't deter shit. It has the opposite affect; it alienates allies and hardens the resolve of enemies. Power projection? Do you know what power projection is? It's putting a carrier group in the Persian Gulf to check Iran. It's securing lucrative trade deals with East Asia. It's establishing missile defense systems in Eastern Europe. Torture has nothing to do with projecting power.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;49879169]TIt depends. Military spending is fine if you want to keep the current force projection capabilities and uphold standing military obligations abroad. The forces (especially Navy and Army) are starting to get pretty lean after the latest cuts.[/QUOTE] No it's that he said we don't spend that much on out military when we totally do.

[QUOTE=wystan;49879187]To be fair, if you could imagine a more moderate version of me, that isn't uncommon. No common person would defend publicly torture to the length I do [B]but I don't reveal my power level in public.[/B][/QUOTE] Smart move. You don't want a bunch of anime dudes to show up and start kickin the shit out of you.

[QUOTE=UnidentifiedFlyingTard;49879195]No it's that he said we don't spend that much on out military when we totally do.[/QUOTE] Right, and I'm saying it's quite possible to defend that level of spending with regards to how large our forces are and how spread out they are.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49879182]No Recap the history that makes america 100% not responsible for anything over there[/QUOTE] I love the way you frame your questions, it's so disingenuous. Did I ever try and say we are 100% aren't at fault? You asked for some history and someone to effectively blame, but that wasn't good enough so you rephrase it. Should I blame Canada too because you followed us in? You all declined to go into Iraq, that was a good call. But Afghanistan, Libya, and ISIS (until your joke of a PM decided to stop helping).

[QUOTE=Raidyr;49879169]That isn't the whole military budget though, that's DoD plus 3 unaffiliated government agencies. Nitpicking I know and it doesn't defeat the point that one year of military funding almost outweighs 60 years of space agency. Yeah this is just a chart full of unrelated things. What does the UN budget have to do with anything? A skyscraper?[/QUOTE] It's the military budget compared to other budgets besides I just threw a random chart, didn't entirely mean anything by it :v: just wanted to compare Military VS education and so on

[QUOTE=wystan;49879139]If you really want to shoulder blame, blame the French and English for partitioning the Ottoman Empire after World War I. [editline]6th March 2016[/editline] I'm an outlier.[/QUOTE] This is the problem with you and Fat White Lump, you both dance around what people tell you. I told FWL why people automatically assume he'll be in a thread, he doesn't respond. People sit there and poke a million holes in your logic, you don't respond and go to another question. People ask you to elaborate on something, you just ignore it or answer something else. You don't accept that maybe, just maybe, your logic has flaws. You're letting your overbearing nationalism blind you to the fact that a lot of what Trump has proposed is flawed and dangerous for the country, even though he'll possibly end up flip flopping and doing a 180 after the elections are all over because he knew people like you were an easy vote. Then after people are done poking holes in your logic, you guys sit there and say "b-but people attack us!" No, they're refuting your beliefs because there's factual evidence to prove that your beliefs are flawed. You're not some victim that crazed, libtard bernie sander supporters are purposely going after because they think you're bigoted racists, they're going after you because you're blindly following what Trump is telling you without bothering to stop and think for a second why a Wall dividing us from Mexico that we'll force them to pay for is wrong or why bringing back torture despite it being proven not to work is wrong.

[QUOTE=Spastik2D;49879227]The problem with you and Fat White Lump is that you both dance around what people tell you. I told FWL why people automatically assume he'll be in a thread, he doesn't respond. People sit there and poke a million holes in your logic, you don't respond and go to another question. People ask you to elaborate on something, you just ignore it or answer something else. You don't accept that maybe, just maybe, your logic has flaws. You're letting your overbearing nationalism blind you to the fact that a lot of what Trump has proposed is [B]flawed and dangerous for the country[/B], even though he'll possibly end up flip flopping and doing a 180 after the elections are all over because he knew people like you were an easy vote.[/QUOTE] This can literally be said for all candidates.

[QUOTE=Spastik2D;49879227]This is the problem with you and Fat White Lump is that you both dance around what people tell you. I told FWL why people automatically assume he'll be in a thread, he doesn't respond. People sit there and poke a million holes in your logic, you don't respond and go to another question. People ask you to elaborate on something, you just ignore it or answer something else. You don't accept that maybe, just maybe, your logic has flaws. You're letting your overbearing nationalism blind you to the fact that a lot of what Trump has proposed is flawed and dangerous for the country, even though he'll possibly end up flip flopping and doing a 180 after the elections are all over because he knew people like you were an easy vote. Then after people are done poking holes in your logic, you guys sit there and say "b-but people attack us!" No, they're refuting your beliefs because there's factual evidence to prove that your beliefs are flawed. You're not some victim that crazed, libtard bernie sander supporters are purposely going after because they think you're bigoted racists, they're going after you because you're blindly following what Trump is telling you without bothering to stop and think for a second why a Wall dividing us from Mexico that we'll force them to pay for is wrong or why bringing back torture despite it being proven not to work is wrong.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=wystan;49879234]This can literally be said for all candidates.[/QUOTE] wystan ladies and gentlemen.

[QUOTE=wystan;49879234]This can literally be said for all candidates.[/QUOTE] You're doing it again. You just ignored everything and focused in on one thing. I swear, if you, FWL, and JohnFisher were to come out as 4chan trolls supporting Trump ironically at the end of the elections, I would not be surprised.

[QUOTE=J!NX;49879217]It's the military budget compared to other budgets besides I just threw a random chart, didn't entirely mean anything by it :v: just wanted to compare Military VS education and so on[/QUOTE] Education is primarily done on a state by state basis. Putting money into the Department of Education doesn't necessarily make for a more educated populace, especially when the federal government has shown that they can't quite get it right regarding education regulation and reform. Meanwhile, slightly over half of that DoD funding is compensating soldiers. A full $60 billion is healthcare alone. We can start cutting military funding but you have to be prepared for a smaller, less prepared military that will have to cede some foreign obligations.

[QUOTE=wystan;49879210]I love the way you frame your questions, it's so disingenuous. Did I ever try and say we are 100% aren't at fault? You asked for some history and someone to effectively blame, but that wasn't good enough so you rephrase it. Should I blame Canada too because you followed us in? You all declined to go into Iraq, that was a good call. But Afghanistan, Libya, and ISIS (until your joke of a PM decided to stop helping).[/QUOTE] your nation called the shots, how do you think it's supposed to go? [editline]6th March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=wystan;49879234]This can literally be said for all candidates.[/QUOTE] Good way to ignore the entire coversation, and nitpick tiny bits of the post to focus on that's so god damn childish "I can't deal with these parts of the post, LET ME IGNORE THEM FOREVER MORE"

[QUOTE=Spastik2D;49879227]This is the problem with you and Fat White Lump is that you both dance around what people tell you. I told FWL why people automatically assume he'll be in a thread, he doesn't respond. People sit there and poke a million holes in your logic, you don't respond and go to another question. People ask you to elaborate on something, you just ignore it or answer something else. You don't accept that maybe, just maybe, your logic has flaws. You're letting your overbearing nationalism blind you to the fact that a lot of what Trump has proposed is flawed and dangerous for the country, even though he'll possibly end up flip flopping and doing a 180 after the elections are all over because he knew people like you were an easy vote. Then after people are done poking holes in your logic, you guys sit there and say "b-but people attack us!" No, they're refuting your beliefs because there's factual evidence to prove that your beliefs are flawed. You're not some victim that crazed, libtard bernie sander supporters are purposely going after because they think you're bigoted racists, they're going after you because you're blindly following what Trump is telling you without bothering to stop and think for a second why a Wall dividing us from Mexico that we'll force them to pay for is wrong or why bringing back torture despite it being proven not to work is wrong.[/QUOTE] Ok fine we'll do this the long way. They aren't hole in my logic, I've tried to keep up with every response and post that had an actual point, if you want clarification just ask, I don't mean to ignore points. My beliefs aren't flawed, they are my beliefs. They are opinions, and they are no more or less valid than yours. I've explained why I defend torture and how I think it should be done, and when. [editline]6th March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49879272]your nation called the shots, how do you think it's supposed to go? [editline]6th March 2016[/editline] Good way to ignore the entire coversation, and nitpick tiny bits of the post to focus on that's so god damn childish "I can't deal with these parts of the post, LET ME IGNORE THEM FOREVER MORE"[/QUOTE] Way to shift blame again.

[QUOTE=wystan;49879291]Ok fine we'll do this the long way. They aren't hole in my logic, I've tried to keep up with every response and post that had an actual point, if you want clarification just ask, I don't mean to ignore points. My beliefs aren't flawed, they are my beliefs. They are opinions, and they are no more or less valid than yours. I've explained why I defend torture and how I think it should be done, and when. [editline]6th March 2016[/editline] Way to shift blame again.[/QUOTE] what makes you think that beliefs can't be wrong when you justify your beliefs using facts that can be either wrong or right?

[QUOTE=Spastik2D;49879251]You're doing it again. You just ignored everything and focused in on one thing. I swear, if you, FWL, and JohnFisher were to come out as 4chan trolls supporting Trump ironically at the end of the elections, I would not be surprised.[/QUOTE] The trolling line again.

[QUOTE=wystan;49879291]Ok fine we'll do this the long way. They aren't hole in my logic, I've tried to keep up with every response and post that had an actual point, if you want clarification just ask, I don't mean to ignore points. My beliefs aren't flawed, they are my beliefs. They are opinions, and they are no more or less valid than yours. I've explained why I defend torture and how I think it should be done, and when.[/QUOTE] If I believed the sky was green, that would be a flawed belief. Stop hiding behind "MY OPINIONS!" and start dealing in facts. I know "Motivation" means more than facts to you though so I'm asking a lot of you, arent' I? [editline]6th March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=wystan;49879301]The trolling line again.[/QUOTE] Because you ignored his entire point. His entire, fucking point. That's what fucking trolls do. [editline]6th March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=wystan;49879291] Way to shift blame again.[/QUOTE] Not really I guess it's "shifting the blame" to accept the actions of your own nation, right?

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49879303]If I believed the sky was green, that would be a flawed belief. Stop hiding behind "MY OPINIONS!" and start dealing in facts. I know "Motivation" means more than facts to you though so I'm asking a lot of you, arent' I?[/QUOTE] You can't prove with 100% certainty that torture is ineffective, there is always a chance. The sky is literally blue, and if you want to be pedantic you could say it is green in some situations. [editline]6th March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49879303]If I believed the sky was green, that would be a flawed belief. Stop hiding behind "MY OPINIONS!" and start dealing in facts. I know "Motivation" means more than facts to you though so I'm asking a lot of you, arent' I? [editline]6th March 2016[/editline] Because you ignored his entire point. His entire, fucking point. That's what fucking trolls do. [editline]6th March 2016[/editline] Not really I guess it's "shifting the blame" to accept the actions of your own nation, right?[/QUOTE] You literally didn't accept that Canada is by extension at fault also and didn't accept the actions of your nation.

[QUOTE=wystan;49879301]The trolling line again.[/QUOTE] Maybe if you stopped acting like a troll people would stop calling you a troll.

[QUOTE=wystan;49879316]You can't prove with 100% certainty that torture is ineffective, there is always a chance. The sky is literally blue, and if you want to be pedantic you could say it is green in some situations. [editline]6th March 2016[/editline] You literally didn't accept that Canada is by extension at fault and didn't accept the actions of your nation.[/QUOTE] omg r u srs So as long as there's a .0000001 percent chance that HORRIBLY VIOLENT AND INHUMANE TORTURE WILL WORK, you're going to be there with your little picket sign?

[QUOTE=wystan;49879316]You can't prove with 100% certainty that torture is ineffective, there is always a chance. The sky is literally blue, and if you want to be pedantic you could say it is green in some situations. [/QUOTE] [IMG]https://artistryforfeminismandkittens.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/movingthegoalposts.jpg[/IMG] First it was "torture is good for getting information", then it was "torture is good for reeducation" now it's "torture might work"

wystan just want's an excuse to use torture.

[QUOTE=kyle877;49879331]omg r u srs So as long as there's a .0000001 percent chance that HORRIBLY VIOLENT AND INHUMANE TORTURE WILL WORK, you're going to be there with your little picket sign?[/QUOTE] If that chance can save American lives, yes. And the rest of what you said is relative. Again, back to relativism. I have no issue with being violent and inhumane to those who would treat me the same.

don't you guys get it wystan has never actually thought about WHY he likes torture before. he just knew, deep down, he liked the idea of torturing enemy combatants. when his beliefs are challenged, he has to scramble to figure out a logical justification for why he likes torture. problem is, even if you explain why his logic is fucking stupid, it won't change the fact that he loves torture. it's impossible to argue with him because he's a fraud.

[QUOTE=wystan;49879316]You can't prove with 100% certainty that torture is ineffective, there is always a chance. The sky is literally blue, and if you want to be pedantic you could say it is green in some situations. [/QUOTE] Do you not get it. You're the one that said intelligence agents must be diligent in their work. That diligence is what makes the 90% that gives good info with the Hanns method also lead into the 0.1% of torture information that is not completely useless. [B]Torture is NOT going to fucking unlock the doors to whole new schemes against your country.[/B]

[QUOTE=wystan;49879354]If that chance can save American lives, yes. And the rest of what you said is relative. Again, back to relativism. I have no issue with being violent and inhumane to those who would treat me the same.[/QUOTE] What if the person was actually innocent but captured by mistake.