Donald Trump flips his stance on torture; killing terrorists families - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Damjen;49879336][IMG]https://artistryforfeminismandkittens.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/movingthegoalposts.jpg[/IMG] First it was "torture is good for getting information", then it was "torture is good for reeducation" now it's "torture might work"[/QUOTE] I always said there was a chance. There is literally no reason not to try it if they aren't being cooperative.

[QUOTE=wystan;49879354]If that chance can save American lives, yes. And the rest of what you said is relative. Again, back to relativism. I have no issue with being violent and inhumane to those who would treat me the same.[/QUOTE] Do unto others as you would have done unto yourself. That's a pretty important moral in a popular story book I read at some point.

[QUOTE=Apache249;49879361]What if the person was actually innocent but captured by mistake.[/QUOTE] Then that's deplorable and should never happen again.

[QUOTE=wystan;49879363]I always said there was a chance. There is literally no reason not to try it if they aren't being cooperative.[/QUOTE] YES THERE IS A REASON YOU DENSE TURD. BECAUSE IT'S INHUMANE.

[QUOTE=wystan;49879368]Then that's deplorable and should never happen again.[/QUOTE] But how can you tell the difference between someone witholding information and someone who genuinely has no information while you're torturing them?

[QUOTE=geel9;49879356]don't you guys get it wystan has never actually thought about WHY he likes torture before. he just knew, deep down, he liked the idea of torturing enemy combatants. when his beliefs are challenged, he has to scramble to figure out a logical justification for why he likes torture. problem is, even if you explain why his logic is fucking stupid, it won't change the fact that he loves torture. it's impossible to argue with him because he's a fraud.[/QUOTE] I have no reason to love torture. I want to save Americans by any means necessary.

[QUOTE=wystan;49879368]Then that's deplorable and should never happen again.[/QUOTE] The [b]only possible way[/b] to ensure innocents are not tortured is to not torture anyone. Your [b]only options[/b] are to either torture people and accidentally torture some innocents, or not torture anyone. There is no possible way around this. But me saying this won't matter. You like torture and you don't have a logical justification for it. You pretend to have a logical basis for your love of torture but it's as simple as the fact that you love torture.

[QUOTE=Apache249;49879373]But how can you tell the difference between someone witholding information and someone who genuinely has no information while you're torturing them?[/QUOTE] Doing diligence.

[QUOTE=wystan;49879380]Doing diligence.[/QUOTE] Elaborate

[QUOTE=wystan;49879375]I have no reason to love torture. I want to save Americans by any means necessary.[/QUOTE] You are literally a supervillain. An actual physical example of a motherfucking supervillain. [I][B]Holy shit, you are actually believing in the same stuff that's driven fucking Darth Vader[/B][/I]

[QUOTE=wystan;49879375]I have no reason to love torture. I want to save Americans by any means necessary.[/QUOTE] But diplomacy or anything else are for pussies so "AMERICA MUST TORTURE THEM"

[QUOTE=geel9;49879379]The [b]only possible way[/b] to ensure innocents are not tortured is to not torture anyone. Your [b]only options[/b] are to either torture people and accidentally torture some innocents, or not torture anyone. There is no possible way around this. But me saying this won't matter. You like torture and you don't have a logical justification for it. You pretend to have a logical basis for your love of torture but it's as simple as the fact that you love torture.[/QUOTE] With that reasoning why should we do anything? The only possible way for me not to die in a car accident is to never get in a car, so I should never get in a car. [editline]6th March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49879389]But diplomacy or anything else are for pussies so "AMERICA MUST TORTURE THEM"[/QUOTE] And I'm the one trolling? Diplomacy and all other peaceful avenues should be tried first.

[QUOTE=wystan;49879390]With that reasoning why should we do anything? The only possible way for me not to die in a car accident is to never get in a car, so I should never get in a car.[/QUOTE] Do you read the things you post lmao Chances are good you'll die from something that is not a car accident, regardless of whether or not you drive a car

[QUOTE=Damjen;49879388]You are literally a supervillain. An actual physical example of a motherfucking supervillain. [I][B]Holy shit, you are actually believing in the same stuff that's driven fucking Darth Vader[/B][/I][/QUOTE] Excuse me for loving my country. [editline]6th March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=geel9;49879402]Do you read the things you post lmao Chances are good you'll die from something that is not a car accident, regardless of whether or not you drive a car[/QUOTE] You're the one with the reasoning of if we can't be 100% of something we shouldn't try it.

[QUOTE=wystan;49879404]Excuse me for loving my country. [editline]6th March 2016[/editline] You're the one with the reasoning of if we can't be 100% of something we shouldn't try it.[/QUOTE] You are the one saying "torture of innocents should never happen." If you believe that -- that it should [b]NEVER HAPPEN[/b] -- then the ONLY way to achieve that goal of it "never happening" is to not torture people.

[QUOTE=wystan;49879404]Excuse me for loving my country. [editline]6th March 2016[/editline] You're the one with the reasoning of if we can't be 100% of something we shouldn't try it.[/QUOTE] There is literally no excuse for you. That's not even patriotism at this point, it's just sociopathic torture-lust.

[QUOTE=wystan;49879375]I have no reason to love torture. I want to save Americans by any means necessary.[/QUOTE] OH OH OH WE HAVE A NEW DEVELOPMENT IN WYSTAN'S MINDSET. Ok so "save Americans by any means necessary." apparently includes torture which is almost never effective and where it is effective the info gathered was already previously known. However it doesn't include providing a reasonable standard of living to the 45000 Americans that die each year due to being unable to access healthcare. “The Institute of Medicine, using older studies, estimated that one American dies every 30 minutes from lack of health insurance,” remarked David Himmelstein, study co-author, associate professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School, and a primary care physician at Cambridge Health Alliance. “Even this grim figure is an underestimate — now one dies every 12 minutes.” During the time you've been defending torture, [B]tens of Americans have died due to PEOPLE WHO VOTE LIKE YOU MEANWHILE,[/B]50 US citizens died of terror related attacks in the last 7 years

[QUOTE=wystan;49877930]To satiate public outcry.[/QUOTE] "We're going to make up some bullshit stories about how torture is ineffective to ease the fears of the populace, while also making them want us to stop using torture methods that they now believe are ineffective even though they really are and could save American lives so we'll just keep doing it anyway without telling them". Concrete planning.

[QUOTE=wystan;49879404]Excuse me for loving my country. [editline]6th March 2016[/editline] You're the one with the reasoning of if we can't be 100% of something we shouldn't try it.[/QUOTE] Men like you invaded my country in 1939.

[QUOTE=wystan;49879390]With that reasoning why should we do anything? The only possible way for me not to die in a car accident is to never get in a car, so I should never get in a car. [editline]6th March 2016[/editline] And I'm the one trolling? Diplomacy and all other peaceful avenues should be tried first.[/QUOTE] if you allow innocents to be tortured, as the US has done hundreds of times, then you clearly don't give a fuck about "diplomacy" Not to mention, you keep advocating for torture as the be all end all based on your emotional connection to torture.

Donald trump is a genius. He knew that southern states vote first so he should appeal to them with extreme right wing nonsense, then after they vote he "evolves" on a bunch of other opinions that will appeal to the northern states. Alienating some voters along the way won't matter because most voters are uninformed and just vote party line.

[QUOTE=EcksDee;49879422]OH OH OH WE HAVE A NEW DEVELOPMENT IN WYSTAN'S MINDSET. Ok so "save Americans by any means necessary." apparently includes torture which is almost never effective and where it is effective the info gathered was already previously known. However it doesn't include providing a reasonable standard of living to the 45000 Americans that die each year due to being unable to access healthcare. “The Institute of Medicine, using older studies, estimated that one American dies every 30 minutes from lack of health insurance,” remarked David Himmelstein, study co-author, associate professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School, and a primary care physician at Cambridge Health Alliance. “Even this grim figure is an underestimate — now one dies every 12 minutes.” During the time you've been defending torture, [B]tens of Americans have died due to PEOPLE WHO VOTE LIKE YOU[/B][/QUOTE] The first number's math is wrong, if an American dies every 30 minutes, then there would be a total of 17,520 dead, but that's the old stat so whatever. With the updated one of ever 12 minutes we get 43,800, which is still lower than the original number. And when you think of that in scale that's literally .01% of the population. [QUOTE=geel9;49879418]You are the one saying "torture of innocents should never happen." If you believe that -- that it should [b]NEVER HAPPEN[/b] -- then the ONLY way to achieve that goal of it "never happening" is to not torture people.[/QUOTE] You can always take steps to minimize these chances.

[QUOTE=Damjen;49879388]You are literally a supervillain. An actual physical example of a motherfucking supervillain. [I][B]Holy shit, you are actually believing in the same stuff that's driven fucking Darth Vader[/B][/I][/QUOTE] I don't know about that, he's more like those rogue AI you see in movies who interpret "must not harm a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm" as "must not harm humanity or, through inaction, allow humanity to come to harm", which is where you get the whole "robot subjugation" thing. Think "I, Robot". (shit film I know, but the premise is the same in that they believe they're doing legitimate good for the whole by deliberately harming a relative few, which either way is still fucked up)

[QUOTE=wystan;49879457] You can always take steps to minimize these chances.[/QUOTE] Then you do not believe that torture of innocents should never happen. You are a liar.

[QUOTE=wystan;49879363]I always said there was a chance. There is literally no reason not to try it if they aren't being cooperative.[/QUOTE] Except the fact that it doesn't fucking work.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49879439]if you allow innocents to be tortured, as the US has done hundreds of times, then you clearly don't give a fuck about "diplomacy" Not to mention, you keep advocating for torture as the be all end all based on your emotional connection to torture.[/QUOTE] That makes no sense, you can support both you know. I never said it is the be all end all, it should just be an option.

[QUOTE=wystan;49879464]That makes no sense, you can support both you know. I never said it is the be all end all, it should just be an option.[/QUOTE] It's an option that makes diplomacy impossible down the line because your enemy won't talk to you if you fucking tortured them so no I don't believe you do

[QUOTE=wystan;49879457]The first number's math is wrong, if an American dies every 30 minutes, then there would be a total of 17,520 dead, but that's the old stat so whatever. With the updated one of ever 12 minutes we get 43,800, which is still lower than the original number. And when you think of that in scale that's literally .01% of the population. [/QUOTE] [B]You've already lost everything you stand for by first saying "save Americans by any means necessary" and then going "It's just 0.1% of the population"[/B] Meanwhile, lets take the, around 150 US citizens who died of terror attacks in the past 6 years (the 50 was a typo sry). 150 us citizens who died in the past 6 years is 0.000046% of the population. That's 0.000046% IN THE PAST 6 YEARS. Meanwhile, extrapolate 40000 back 6 years, it's instead 0.08% (rounded up)

[QUOTE=geel9;49879461]Then you do not believe that torture of innocents should never happen. You are a liar.[/QUOTE] I believe it should never happen, but you are convinced it could, and I supposed you're right, it could. So we should take great caution in making sure it doesn't.

[QUOTE=wystan;49879464]That makes no sense, you can support both you know. I never said it is the be all end all, it should just be an option.[/QUOTE] And I'm going to ask you again, since you failed to answer last time. How can you tell the difference between someone who's actually withholding information and someone who is innocent and actually doesn't know.