Donald Trump flips his stance on torture; killing terrorists families - Polidicks

[QUOTE=wystan;49876649]And anyone who agrees with Trump is a racist fascist right?[/QUOTE] No, just the sort of impressionable and impulsive person that enables fascists.

hey look who finally showed up. that sure took a while lol

[QUOTE=Fat White Lump;49876617]I'm honestly surprised you don't, I see you get attacked by the Bernie hive mind on a similar level and it's great to see you successfully defend your opinion. Maybe the only difference is you don't have a Trump avatar.[/QUOTE] lol your cute. No, you don't get attacked by the mythical 'Bernie hivemind'. You get attacked by people that are actually legitimately concerned for the future of their country because people are supporting a vehement, bigoted, egotistic, shitflinging, silverspoon, con-man who thinks that he had it just as rough as people that serve in the military because his daddy gave him a 'small' loan of a few million dollars.

[QUOTE=Fat White Lump;49876499] [B]I read the article, and still totally am in favor of waterboarding and even the families if it comes down to it.[/B] I can't seem to find what you guys or CNN is talking about with Trump changing his stance on torture. [/QUOTE] I'm a better American than you are. Let me re-quote what I told you about torture [B]never[/B] being an effective way to extract information from anyone. [QUOTE=EcksDee;49857260]You know why this specific "we must kill them and their families" approach doesn't work? In the case of ISIS, you're not fighting a specific group of people, you're fighting an ideology. An ideology which gains [B]immense[/B] traction from hearing about how the "brave soldiers of america who have ALL the equipment that they need and ONLY the best" are bombing their fellow countrymen indiscriminately (which is what Donald "You need to kill their families" Trump advocates). The fact that their religious beliefs tend to be more radical (due in large part to their lower level of education) only adds even more fuel to the fire. You know what's gonna happen if Trump gets what his childish mind wants? Instead of a percentage of the middle east being radical, his legacy will be turning maybe even tens of percentages of them into america-hating ISIS fuckwits. ISIS is already pretty much on its last legs, and the [B]only reason they're doing those high profile torture executions is so retards like you go all "nuke them"[/B], because their ideology thrives off the pain that you cause them. That's not even saying anything about your 5 year old mentality of answering torture with torture. You wanna know about the most efficient interrogation techniques? The best (meaning most effective, most able to get info from people) interrogator in history was [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanns_Scharff"]Hanns Scharff[/URL], a Luftwaffe interrogator. Try reading up on what he did: "Scharff was opposed to physically abusing prisoners to obtain information." "he portrayed himself as their closest ally in their predicament, telling them that while he would like nothing more than to see them safely deposited in a POW camp" "Some high-profile prisoners were treated to outings to German airfields (one POW was even allowed to take a BF 109 fighter for a trial run), tea with German fighter aces, swimming pool excursions, and luncheons, among other things. Prisoners were treated well medically at the nearby Hohe Mark Hospital, and some POWs were occasionally allowed to visit their comrades at this hospital for company's sake, as well as the better meals provided there. Scharff was best known for taking his prisoners on strolls through the nearby woods, first having them swear an oath of honor that they would not attempt to escape during their walk." And yet, without waterboarding, without shoving food up a prisoner's ass, without blasting psychologically damaging music in their cells 24/7, [B]he became the most successful interrogator of all time[/B] If what you're saying is true, that Trump would be able to kickstart another fucking war there, then I can't possibly imagine a worse candidate for the highest office currently on this planet. [/QUOTE] The only thing that torture does is appease your childish neanderthal eye-for-an-eye mindset.

[QUOTE=Mingebox;49876700]No, just the sort of impressionable and impulsive person that enables fascists.[/QUOTE] way to make a sweeping generalization about the mindset of potentially over a hundred million american citizens

[QUOTE=Chonch;49877309]way to make a sweeping generalization about the mindset of potentially over a hundred million american citizens[/QUOTE] Care to explain otherwise?

I genuinely don't understand how people can advocate killing terrorists' families and still think they have the moral high ground, you're literally [I]supporting murder[/I].

[QUOTE=CatFodder;49877618]I genuinely don't understand how people can advocate killing terrorists' families and still think they have the moral high ground, you're literally [I]supporting murder[/I].[/QUOTE] Who said anything about moral high ground? I just support it. [editline]6th March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=EcksDee;49877242]I'm a better American than you are. Let me re-quote what I told you about torture [B]never[/B] being an effective way to extract information from anyone. The only thing that torture does is appease your childish neanderthal eye-for-an-eye mindset.[/QUOTE] A man has an opinion? I better change mine to be like his so people like me!

[QUOTE=Fat White Lump;49877635]Who said anything about moral high ground? I just support it. [editline]6th March 2016[/editline] A man has an opinion? I better change mine to be like his so people like me![/QUOTE] Well atleast you admit you're a terrible person, then. Acceptance is the first step to improvement.

[QUOTE=Fat White Lump;49877635]Who said anything about moral high ground? I just support it. [/QUOTE] Ok so you support murder, can you at least see why a lot of people find that intensely repulsive?

Figures that someone would support trump and his hardon for water boarding considering they've never thought about how it'd feel to be drowned with water constantly.

[QUOTE=Fat White Lump;49877635] A man has an opinion? I better change mine to be like his so people like me![/QUOTE] What the fuck kind of victim are you playing here. Your opinion is [B]objectively wrong[/B] by even the slightest look into either ISIS or the efficacy of torture. There's no "agree to disagree" here. The only reason you support torture isn't because you think that it's an efficient tool in gathering information from prisoners of war, you do it because you're an emotional and petulant child who wants to see every bad man tortured.

[QUOTE=Fat White Lump;49877635]Who said anything about moral high ground? I just support it. [editline]6th March 2016[/editline] A man has an opinion? I better change mine to be like his so people like me![/QUOTE] uh no you didn't actually respond to his post, you just responded to one line of it (the bit with Hanns Scharff is good)

[QUOTE=EcksDee;49877732]What the fuck kind of victim are you playing here. Your opinion is [B]objectively wrong[/B] by even the slightest look into either ISIS or the efficacy of torture. There's no "agree to disagree" here. The only reason you support torture isn't because you think that it's an efficient tool in gathering information from prisoners of war, you do it because you're an emotional and petulant child who wants to see every bad man tortured.[/QUOTE] Opinions can't be objectively wrong. You should really play this: [url]http://pbskids.org/arthur/games/factsopinions/[/url] [editline]6th March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=kyle877;49877641]Well atleast you admit you're a terrible person, then. Acceptance is the first step to improvement.[/QUOTE] I'm not. I'm great.

[QUOTE=Fat White Lump;49877762]Opinions can't be objectively wrong. You should really play this: [url]http://pbskids.org/arthur/games/factsopinions/[/url] [editline]6th March 2016[/editline] I'm not. I'm great.[/QUOTE] yeah i'm afraid your opinion, when it's based on information that isn't correct, can be objectively wrong sorry what's you've said is akin to me saying that i'm of the opinion that barack obama is a lizard, but i can't be objectively wrong [editline]6th March 2016[/editline] so if i said "my opinion is that cashew nuts can solve any medical issue", based on the incorrect information that cashew nuts were medically beneficial, then my opinion would be wrong

[QUOTE=EcksDee;49877732]What the fuck kind of victim are you playing here. Your opinion is [B]objectively wrong[/B] by even the slightest look into either ISIS or the efficacy of torture. There's no "agree to disagree" here. The only reason you support torture isn't because you think that it's an efficient tool in gathering information from prisoners of war, you do it because you're an emotional and petulant child who wants to see every bad man tortured.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Fat White Lump;49877762]Opinions can't be objectively wrong. You should really play this: [url]http://pbskids.org/arthur/games/factsopinions/[/url][/QUOTE] and so it was that facepunch finally dug down to the deepest, innermost reasoning of trump supporters: "feels before reals" [editline]6th March 2016[/editline] built on the grave and fundamental misunderstanding of basically everything about war, politics and human nature that makes the average redneck think you can stop them turrists by committing massive atrocities to ~scare them into submission~ and somehow not simply create more enemies, like we saw in [i][b]every single asymmetrical war we ever fought[/b][/i]

[QUOTE=Fat White Lump;49877762]Opinions can't be objectively wrong. You should really play this: [URL]http://pbskids.org/arthur/games/factsopinions/[/URL] [editline]6th March 2016[/editline] I'm not. I'm great.[/QUOTE] Opinions can be wrong. If it is my opinion that the grass is blue, then my opinion is based on objectively wrong facts, which means that the opinion itself is objectively wrong. Your opinion seems to be that torturing prisoners is a good way to attain information. Your opinion is based on objectively wrong facts, which means that the opinion itself is objectively wrong. You're talking about opinions like they never go past "I like turtles", which can't be an objectively wrong statement because it's not based on anything other than your own subjective experience. Torture, however, has nothing to do with your subjective experience. We have real world stats and data about torture, which shows that once again, [B]you are objectively wrong[/B]

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49877783]yeah i'm afraid your opinion, when it's based on information that isn't correct, can be objectively wrong sorry what's you've said is akin to me saying that i'm of the opinion that barack obama is a lizard, but i can't be objectively wrong [editline]6th March 2016[/editline] so if i said "my opinion is that cashew nuts can solve any medical issue", based on the incorrect information that cashew nuts were medically beneficial, then my opinion would be wrong[/QUOTE] But torture is an effective method of obtaining information. That's why we've been doing it for over 100 years. You are totally free to say you don't like it, and that's fine.I wish we didn't live in a world where we have to use it. But you can't honestly say it doesn't work. [editline]6th March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=EcksDee;49877828]Opinions can be wrong. If it is my opinion that the grass is blue, then my opinion is based on objectively wrong facts, which means that the opinion itself is objectively wrong. Your opinion seems to be that torturing prisoners is a good way to attain information. Your opinion is based on objectively wrong facts, which means that the opinion itself is objectively wrong. You're talking about opinions like they never go past "I like turtles", which can't be an objectively wrong statement because it's not based on anything other than your own subjective experience. Torture, however, has nothing to do with your subjective experience. We have real world stats and data about torture, which shows that once again, [B]you are objectively wrong[/B][/QUOTE] One again, I really think you should play this educational game: [url]http://pbskids.org/arthur/games/factsopinions/[/url]

Just because it's been done for 100 years doesn't make it effective.

[QUOTE=kyle877;49877840]Just because it's been done for 100 years doesn't make it effective.[/QUOTE] Why else do you think we do it?

[QUOTE=Fat White Lump;49877842]Why else do you think we do it?[/QUOTE] why do charismatic christians still think they're immune to venom despite how many get killed each year kissing snakes? why do the chinese still drive tigers and sharks extinct trying to cure their impotence problem, despite absolutely no scientific evidence whatosever? cmon i can give you examples all day (for you immediately ignore and move the goalposts because you're an intellectually dishonest child) y'know it really is pointless to argue with someone who has flat-out decided to deny facts and studies and evidence in favor of "i wanna torture brown people!!!"

[QUOTE=kyle877;49877641]Well atleast you admit you're a terrible person, then. Acceptance is the first step to improvement.[/QUOTE] -snip- i'm just gonna keep watching, long as wall of text that was essentially nonconstructive anyway

[QUOTE=Fat White Lump;49877842]Why else do you think we do it?[/QUOTE] Because it's easy.

[QUOTE=Fat White Lump;49877833]But torture is an effective method of obtaining information. That's why we've been doing it for over 100 years. You are totally free to say you don't like it, and that's fine.I wish we didn't live in a world where we have to use it. But you can't honestly say it doesn't work. [editline]6th March 2016[/editline] One again, I really think you should play this educational game: [url]http://pbskids.org/arthur/games/factsopinions/[/url][/QUOTE] no, it doesn't [url]http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674743908[/url] [url]http://theweek.com/articles/441396/why-torture-doesnt-work-definitive-guide[/url] [url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/8833108/Torture-is-not-wrong-it-just-doesnt-work-says-former-interrogator.html[/url] [url]http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/dec/09/senate-committee-cia-torture-does-not-work[/url] [editline]6th March 2016[/editline] i can honestly say that it doesn't work, because everyone intelligent who has looked into the subject has said that it doesn't work

[QUOTE=Luni;49877845]why do charismatic christians still think they're immune to venom despite how many get killed each year kissing snakes? y'know it really is pointless to argue with someone who has flat-out decided to deny facts and studies and evidence in favor of "i wanna torture brown people!!!"[/QUOTE] So you just think that our government enjoys torturing people for fun. Every president for over 100 years funds this because they find it amusing? Wow, that's a bold claim. It's pointless to argue with someone that denies that we have seen results and we've stopped attacks because of information gained from torturing. Get out of here with the racist shit, no where did anyone mention race. Anyone who's a threat the US or has information regarding a threat to the US should have that information extracted no matter the color of their skin.

[I]even the fucking CIA admitted that their torture techniques DID NOT WORK[/I] [editline]6th March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Fat White Lump;49877842]Why else do you think we do it?[/QUOTE] reminder: we had slavery for over 100 years

[QUOTE=Fat White Lump;49877833]But torture is an effective method of obtaining information. That's why we've been doing it for over 100 years. You are totally free to say you don't like it, and that's fine.I wish we didn't live in a world where we have to use it. But you can't honestly say it doesn't work.[/QUOTE] [url=http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11948-004-0011-y#page-1]no[/url] [url=http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10781910701665766]it's[/url] [url=http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1468-5930.2006.00355.x/abstract;jsessionid=4C9B1DFF5FA8CEA54AE2CCABF8019681.f01t03?userIsAuthenticated=false&deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=]not[/url] [url=https://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/pdf/intel_interrrogation_sept-1992.pdf]effective[/url] It's never been effective, and only gives you misleading, incorrect or incomplete information. WHEREAS, the nazi interrogator that you [I]ignored[/I] conveniently, got complete information from high ranking trained military officials without physically harming them.

oh yeah, you haven't responded to the bit about Hanns Scharff. Hanns Scharff Hanns Scharff Hanns Scharff Hanns Scharff

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49877883]oh yeah, you haven't responded to the bit about Hanns Scharff. Hanns Scharff Hanns Scharff Hanns Scharff Hanns Scharff[/QUOTE] Stop saying that! It'll drive FWL away. It's like saying 'Ni!'

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49877861][I]even the fucking CIA admitted that their torture techniques DID NOT WORK[/I] [editline]6th March 2016[/editline] reminder: we had slavery for over 100 years[/QUOTE] One man said it didn't, not the entire CIA. Making things up doesn't make you credible. Slavery wasn't used to get intelligence on threats to US, but good try.