Donald Trump flips his stance on torture; killing terrorists families - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Fat White Lump;49877860]So you just think that our government enjoys torturing people for fun. Every president for over 100 years funds this because they find it amusing? Wow, that's a bold claim. It's pointless to argue with someone that denies that we have seen results and we've stopped attacks because of information gained from torturing. Get out of here with the racist shit, no where did anyone mention race. Anyone who's a threat the US or has information regarding a threat to the US should have that information extracted no matter the color of their skin.[/QUOTE] They did it because they were operating under incomplete and incorrect information. Look at [B]YOUR OWN FUCKING CIA[/B] and their report on [url=https://web.archive.org/web/20141209165504/http://www.intelligence.senate.gov/study2014/sscistudy1.pdf]"enhanced interrogation techniques"[/url] This is just after the goddamn 911 attacks, when Bush approved the use of torture, lets see what it says hm? Partial summary from Wikipedia: [quote]The CIA's use of its enhanced interrogation techniques was not an effective means of acquiring intelligence or gaining cooperation from detainees. The CIA's justification for the use of its enhanced interrogation techniques rested on inaccurate claims of their effectiveness. The interrogations of CIA detainees were brutal and far worse than the CIA represented to policymakers and others. The conditions of confinement for CIA detainees were harsher than the CIA had represented to policymakers and others. The CIA repeatedly provided inaccurate information to the Department of Justice (DOJ), impeding a proper legal analysis of the CIA's Detention and Interrogation Program. The CIA has actively avoided or impeded congressional oversight of the program. The CIA impeded effective White House oversight and decision-making. The CIA's operation and management of the program complicated, and in some cases impeded, the national security missions of other Executive Branch agencies. The CIA impeded oversight by the CIA's Office of Inspector General. The CIA coordinated the release of classified information to the media, including inaccurate information concerning the effectiveness of the CIA's enhanced interrogation techniques.[/quote]

[QUOTE=kyle877;49877886]Stop saying that! It'll drive FWL away. It's like saying 'Ni!'[/QUOTE] That's specifically what I responded to, I suggest you read my post again.

[QUOTE=Fat White Lump;49877891]One man said it didn't, not the entire CIA. Making things up doesn't make you credible. Slavery wasn't used to get intelligence on threats to US, but good try.[/QUOTE] What no, the 6000 page report was compiled by the United States Senate Select Committee on Intelligence.

[QUOTE=Fat White Lump;49877891]One man said it didn't, not the entire CIA. Making things up doesn't make you credible. Slavery wasn't used to get intelligence on threats to US, but good try.[/QUOTE] nope, but slavery was used to power sectors of the economy so why did we stop??? also where are your sources at [editline]6th March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Fat White Lump;49877896]That's specifically what I responded to, I suggest you read my post again.[/QUOTE] what where let's hear your opinion of Hanns Scharff right here

[QUOTE=kyle877;49877886]Stop saying that! It'll drive FWL away. It's like saying 'Ni!'[/QUOTE] if only it were that easy, it just makes him ignore it completely and switch subjects [QUOTE=wystan;49877918]Because we should absolutely believe what the CIA choses to release to the general public, not like they aren't the most secretive agency we have and have never hide the truth from us before.[/QUOTE] oh god here we go again

[QUOTE=Fat White Lump;49877896]That's specifically what I responded to, I suggest you read my post again.[/QUOTE] All I found was the word 'gullible' on the last page. Nothing about Hanns.

i don't know about you guys, but right about now sounds like an absolutely fantastic time to talk about the interrogation methods of Hanns Scharff!!! what's your input on it Fat White Lump? [editline]6th March 2016[/editline] Man, crazy that they brought him to teach interrogation strategies in the US because he was so successful without using torture! Isn't that strange Fat White Lump?

Because we should absolutely believe what the CIA choses to release to the general public, not like they aren't the most secretive agency we have and have never hide the truth from us before.

[QUOTE=wystan;49877918]Because we should absolutely believe what the CIA choses to release to the general public, not like they aren't the most secretive agency we have and have never hide the truth from us before.[/QUOTE] Why would it be in their interest to lie about torture being ineffective That makes absolutely no sense

[QUOTE=CatFodder;49877929]Why would it be in their interest to lie about torture being ineffective That makes absolutely no sense[/QUOTE] To satiate public outcry.

[QUOTE=wystan;49877930]To satiate public outcry.[/QUOTE] ??? You think the public outcry is beneficial to the CIA?

[QUOTE=wystan;49877918]Because we should absolutely believe what the CIA choses to release to the general public, not like they aren't the most secretive agency we have and have never hide the truth from us before.[/QUOTE] "The report was prepared following a review of 6 million pages of documents, cables, emails, and other materials principally provided by the CIA.[1][15][16] An additional 9400 classified documents repeatedly requested by the SSCI were withheld by the White House under a claim of executive privilege.[14][15]"

[QUOTE=CatFodder;49877933]??? You think the public outcry is beneficial to the CIA?[/QUOTE] Maybe I was unclear, I apologize if I was. Public outcry to torture being conducted, CIA says ok it's bad and doesn't work we'll stop, public ceases to complain.

[QUOTE=wystan;49877930]To satiate public outcry.[/QUOTE] What The thing that would satiate public outcry would be to say "Torture is incredibly effective, we're learning about new things every day!" Then the "It doesn't work" crowd would lose all momentum, leaving just the "It's inhumane" crowd.

[QUOTE=wystan;49877918]Because we should absolutely believe what the CIA choses to release to the general public, not like they aren't the most secretive agency we have and have never hide the truth from us before.[/QUOTE] LOL "yeah but they would want us to believe that their torture strategies have been ineffective, because that means they think we're incompetent or cruel so that we...we can uh, appear more friendly??"

[QUOTE=CatFodder;49877933]??? You think the public outcry is beneficial to the CIA?[/QUOTE] wystan is so bloodthirsty and ignorant that he actually believes that we can trust the cia 100% to torture people and 'extract information' and somehow just kinda only torture [i]the right people[/i], but somehow simultaneously not trust them about [i]whether it even actually works or not[/i] because he's already decided it works despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary by study after study after study (and has stated he welcomes the slaughter of the fuzzily-defined "enemies of america", and doesn't mind at all if ~just a few innocents~ get caught in the massive government torture machine he dreams of, along with a host of self-contradictions and logical paradoxes) you will not get anywhere with him or FWL, they do not believe in facts

I am skeptical to the information the most secretive agency we have decides to give us. I would torture every single person who wants to kill Americans if it meant there was even a CHANCE it could save American lives. You condescending to me or misinterpreting my views isn't going to make you right.

[QUOTE=wystan;49877951]I am skeptical to the information the most secretive agency we have decides to give us. I would torture every single person who wants to kill Americans if it meant there was even a CHANCE it could save American lives.[/QUOTE] And that's the shortsighted naivete that personifies most trump supporters. "I would torture every single person who wants to kill Americans if it meant there was even a CHANCE it could save American lives. I WANT TO BELIEVE IT WORKSSSSS" As opposed to "I would use the methods that actually work for a greater chance of saving even more American lives, but I want to torture them because sociopathy and it feels good to hurt those who oppose us."

[QUOTE=wystan;49877951]I am skeptical to the information the most secretive agency we have decides to give us. I would torture every single person who wants to kill Americans if it meant there was even a CHANCE it could save American lives. You condescending to me or misinterpreting my views isn't going to make you right.[/QUOTE] But every person you torture will create 5 more who now want to kill Americans.

[QUOTE=wystan;49877951]I am skeptical to the information the most secretive agency we have decides to give us. I would torture every single person who wants to kill Americans if it meant there was even a CHANCE it could save American lives. You condescending to me or misinterpreting my views isn't going to make you right.[/QUOTE] you're right but the studies that show that torture is ineffective, and produces bad information that could kill americans do make us right! [editline]6th March 2016[/editline] also yeah, as mentioned "i don't trust the CIA when they release information, but i trust them when torturing people"

[QUOTE=CatFodder;49877965]But every person you torture will create 5 more who now want to kill Americans.[/QUOTE] On top of now having bad/incomplete information from the one person you did torture. [QUOTE=wystan;49877951]You condescending to me or misinterpreting my views isn't going to make you right.[/QUOTE] Yeah, you're right. You being wrong according to every single available set of data from anywhere in the world makes me right.

[QUOTE=CatFodder;49877965]But every person you torture will create 5 more who now want to kill Americans.[/QUOTE] wystan has, in fact, already held forth on this subject: you just gotta torture/kill them too and then keep going until there's no one left on the planet :terrists:

[QUOTE=wystan;49877918]Because we should absolutely believe what the CIA choses to release to the general public, not like they aren't the most secretive agency we have and have never hide the truth from us before.[/QUOTE] so you're plugging your ears and going lalala?

[QUOTE=Wealth + Taste;49868562]Is it illegal to campaign as a staunch conservative, and then once you're in office renege on all your promises and enact a bunch of liberal reform?[/QUOTE] No. It worked for Chester A Arthur who had gotten the position of Vice President for a campaign favor. Once he became president after James Garfield was assassinated by someone who wanted a campaign favor, Arthur ended the Spoils System. It could happen, but it's not likely. [QUOTE=sgman91;49868295]... And no one should be surprised. The guy has no foundation. He just says whatever he thinks people want to hear.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Headhumpy;49868318]Much like a certain Democratic candidate.[/QUOTE] You mean Hillary Clinton? I couldn't agree more.

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49877966]you're right but the studies that show that torture is ineffective, and produces bad information that could kill americans do make us right! [editline]6th March 2016[/editline] also yeah, as mentioned "i don't trust the CIA when they release information, but i trust them when torturing people"[/QUOTE] Trust and skepticism are two different things, and these are two different tasks. [QUOTE=EcksDee;49877962]And that's the shortsighted naivete that personifies most trump supporters. "I would torture every single person who wants to kill Americans if it meant there was even a CHANCE it could save American lives. I WANT TO BELIEVE IT WORKSSSSS" As opposed to "I would use the methods that actually work for a greater chance of saving even more American lives, but I want to torture them because sociopathy and it feels good to hurt those who oppose us."[/QUOTE] And that's the sweeping generalization made by the other side. I don't think torture should be the first option, but it should never be left out, what's the harm (lol) in trying? [QUOTE=CatFodder;49877965]But every person you torture will create 5 more who now want to kill Americans.[/QUOTE] Not if you do it discretely.

[QUOTE=wystan;49878465]what's the harm (lol) in trying?[/QUOTE] you are disgusting thank god i wasnt drinking anything when i read that

[QUOTE=wystan;49878465] And that's the sweeping generalization made by the other side. I don't think torture should be the first option, but it should never be left out, what's the harm (lol) in trying? [/QUOTE] The trouble is, us non-sociopaths are never going to be able to explain to you why pointless cruelty is inherently wrong, as you literally won't be able to understand. It'd be like trying to explain 'red' to a blind person.

[QUOTE=Fat White Lump;49877762]I'm not. I'm great.[/QUOTE] You support murder, you are not great, you're an awful human being.

[QUOTE=wystan;49878465] And that's the sweeping generalization made by the other side. I don't think torture should be the first option, but it should never be left out, what's the harm (lol) in trying? [/QUOTE] [B]the harm in trying is getting wrong or incomplete information which could KILL AMERICANS [/B]Do you just not get this. Every point of data available says that torture doesn't work, and you people are going "Well, it's the CIA, they're definitely up to something when they were [I]made to release [/I]their documents"

[QUOTE=wystan;49878465]Trust and skepticism are two different things, and these are two different tasks. And that's the sweeping generalization made by the other side. I don't think torture should be the first option, but it should never be left out, what's the harm (lol) in trying? Not if you do it discretely.[/QUOTE] seek mental help