Donald Trump flips his stance on torture; killing terrorists families - Polidicks

[QUOTE=EcksDee;49878492][B]the harm in trying is getting wrong or incomplete information which could KILL AMERICANS [/B]Do you just not get this. Every point of data available says that torture doesn't work, and you people are going "Well, it's the CIA, they're definitely up to something when they were [I]made to release [/I]their documents"[/QUOTE] I think it's been proven that Trump supporters don't actually care about American's.

[QUOTE=wystan;49878465] Not if you do it discretely.[/QUOTE] Ok so once you've tortured someone how do you stop them telling people about it? You just gonna ship them off to a blacksite for the rest of their lives or just take them out back and put a bullet in them? I'm sure their family and friends won't care at all about their sudden disappearance and will absolutely not blame America.

[QUOTE=UnidentifiedFlyingTard;49878501]I think it's been proven that Trump supporters don't actually care about American's.[/QUOTE] Yeah in fact what is this shit? If Americans are getting killed by terrorists on the other side of the planet, it's a travesty. If Americans are getting killed by lackluster access to healthcare and education, it's freedom.

[QUOTE=Fat White Lump;49876617]I'm honestly surprised you don't, I see you get attacked by the Bernie hive mind on a similar level and it's great to see you successfully defend your opinion. Maybe the only difference is you don't have a Trump avatar.[/QUOTE] Dude holy fuck, no one's attacking you because of some Bernie hive mind, they're attacking you because you're pants on head retarded. You could be the same level of retarded for Bernie and we'd still call you out on it.

[QUOTE=CatFodder;49878502]Ok so once you've tortured someone how do you stop them telling people about it? You just gonna ship them off to a blacksite for the rest of their lives or just take them out back and put a bullet in them? I'm sure their family and friends won't care at all about their sudden disappearance and will absolutely not blame America.[/QUOTE] Sure. If they are a potential risk to the safety of Americans don't release them, hold them indefinitely. [QUOTE=CatFodder;49878481]The trouble is, us non-sociopaths are never going to be able to explain to you why pointless cruelty is inherently wrong, as you literally won't be able to understand. It'd be like trying to explain 'red' to a blind person.[/QUOTE] Well it's not pointless. Why should I have sympathy for these people if they are known terrorists who want to kill Americans? [QUOTE=EcksDee;49878492][B]the harm in trying is getting wrong or incomplete information which could KILL AMERICANS [/B]Do you just not get this. Every point of data available says that torture doesn't work, and you people are going "Well, it's the CIA, they're definitely up to something when they were [I]made to release [/I]their documents"[/QUOTE] You think the ones administering the torture aren't aware that the information may be faulty? I still don't see why we shouldn't try. [editline]6th March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=EcksDee;49878507]Yeah in fact what is this shit? If Americans are getting killed by terrorists on the other side of the planet, it's a travesty. If Americans are getting killed by lackluster access to healthcare and education, it's freedom.[/QUOTE] "killed" by lackluster education and healthcare, lol ok. Those causes of death are not comparable and you're foolish for doing so.

[QUOTE=wystan;49878528]You think the ones administering the torture aren't aware that the information may be faulty? I still don't see why we shouldn't try.[/QUOTE] Because even they know people will say anything to stop physical and mental anguish? Even if it's not the truth?

[QUOTE=wystan;49878528]americans americans torturing is PERFECT americans[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=wystan;49877951]I am skeptical to the information the most secretive agency we have decides to give us. I would torture every single person who wants to kill Americans if it meant there was even a CHANCE it could save American lives. You condescending to me or misinterpreting my views isn't going to make you right.[/QUOTE] so you'll do that on a CHANCE but ignore the other CHANCE that the CIA studies are right, CHANCING the lives of Americans who you can't prove need to be in this kind of danger beyond an ideological hunch do you actually care about those Americans or do we need to shove food up your ass until you do

[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;49878535]Because even they know people will say anything to stop physical and mental anguish? Even if it's not the truth?[/QUOTE] But why not try? Keeping them in a cell is indefinitely doesn't do much, and if easy questioning doesn't work, and if interrogating doesn't work and they are being uncooperative, why not try? I don't think torture should be the first option, that would be cruel. At least give people the chance to comply.

what is wrong with you? no seriously wtf

[QUOTE=wystan;49878549][B]But why not try? [/B]Keeping them in a cell is indefinitely doesn't do much, and if easy questioning doesn't work, and if interrogating doesn't work and they are being uncooperative, why not try? I don't think torture should be the first option, that would be cruel. At least give people the chance to comply.[/QUOTE] Because it doesn't work. How hard is that to get into your skull?

[QUOTE=wystan;49878528]You think the ones administering the torture aren't aware that the information may be faulty? I still don't see why we shouldn't try.[/QUOTE] i don't know they might say the information is good for PR purposes!!!

[QUOTE=UnidentifiedFlyingTard;49878555]Because it doesn't work. How hard is that to get into your skull?[/QUOTE] hey it MIGHT work, that's good enough right? right?

[QUOTE=wystan;49878549]But why not try? Keeping them in a cell is indefinitely doesn't do much, and if easy questioning doesn't work, and if interrogating doesn't work and they are being uncooperative, why not try? I don't think torture should be the first option, that would be cruel. At least give people the chance to comply.[/QUOTE] Because it's not fucking worth it you dolt. When you torture people, you're not gaining anything other than contempt and hatred, not hard information or anything substantial that could help. All torture does is give sadists like you an excuse to be a terrible person to others, and try to excuse their actions as "the greater good". Fuck that.

[QUOTE=Saturn V;49878564]hey it MIGHT work, that's good enough right? right?[/QUOTE] Some guy on the internet said torture MIGHT work? shit I'll get my jug of water.

It's worth a shot. Why should I have sympathy for these people?

[QUOTE=wystan;49878528] You think the ones administering the torture aren't aware that the information may be faulty? I still don't see why we shouldn't try. [/QUOTE] Wow ok, so we got you to admit that torture is faulty, and gives you faulty information, next let's get you to admit that [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanns_Scharff]Hanns Scharff[/url] was the most productive and efficient interrogator of all time. [QUOTE]"killed" by lackluster education and healthcare, lol ok. Those causes of death are not comparable and you're foolish for doing so.[/QUOTE] Yeah, killed. the American public education system is one of the worst on the planet and leads to A: huge black ghettos where unemployment and crime rate are through the roof, black on black homicide is the greatest it's been in history, all because young kids have nowhere to learn to apply themselves in life. And B: People like you Now if you're honestly going to say that "not being able to access medication that could save one's life" isn't "an american getting killed because of lackluster access to healthcare" then you're so delusional it's not even funny. If I got a deathly illness here in [B]ESTONIA[/B] of all places, a former soviet block, I could go to a doctor, get it diagnosed, and go home with medicine that doesn't bankrupt my family lineage for three generations. If one of your [B]fellow countrymen[/B] got the same illness, they'd charge him 5000 dollars for a visit, 10 000 for medical scans, 200 000 for medication. Meanwhile the care that they would get for these exorbitant prices would be [I]of lower quality than I would get here for near-free[/I]

[QUOTE=wystan;49878584]It's worth a shot. Why should I have sympathy for these people?[/QUOTE] Because they're human beings, it's been proven to be ineffective, and has to this very day helped with a grand total of 0(ZERO) terrorist attacks being thwarted.

[QUOTE=wystan;49878584]It's worth a shot. Why should I have sympathy for these people?[/QUOTE] Even if you don't have sympathy, try to have a fucking brain. A leads to bad info at the cost of huge amounts of human suffering B leads to good info at no cost whatsoever Which do you choose you sociopath?

[QUOTE=wystan;49878584]It's worth a shot. Why should I have sympathy for these people?[/QUOTE] haha let's dehumanize people

[QUOTE=wystan;49878584]It's worth a shot. Why should I have sympathy for these people?[/QUOTE] Shit man why have sympathy for anyone. Anyone could be a terrorist, let's torture everyone just because it's worth a fucking shot.

[QUOTE=wystan;49878584]It's worth a shot. Why should I have sympathy for these people?[/QUOTE] With this many people telling you "stop being a psycho" you really have to wonder if you're actually reasonable or a sadistic freakazoid.

[QUOTE=UnidentifiedFlyingTard;49878555]Because it doesn't work. How hard is that to get into your skull?[/QUOTE] Hard, apparently. Nigh impossible. I wonder if it's possible to torture the stupid out of another human being? We should try this sometime. And hey-- if they die, so what? According to the mentality of someone like Wystan or Lump, it doesn't matter. You're going to make chips fly when you cut wood, so whatever. If they die, they die. Their problem, not ours. No great loss in the end.

highlights from the last thread [url]https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1505002[/url] [QUOTE=wystan;49692847]Like I said prior, they likely already were terrorists. Also that is [B]the beauty of waterboarding[/B], it's effects aren't permanent.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=wystan;49692582]If they are in a situation were they are being tortured, it is most likely they aren't innocent to begin with[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=wystan;49693000]Gonna speak for all waterboarded persons? Again, I have no sympathy for those who want to kill me and my countrymen.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=wystan;49692973][B]the beauty of waterboarding[/B][/QUOTE] [QUOTE=wystan;49693368][QUOTE=wystan;49693182]Said it already. Torture has more uses outside info gathering.[/quote]Reeducation, imprisonment with a lesser chance of escape, propaganda usage, punishment. Again, not saying it's right, but a necessary evil[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=wystan;49693359][QUOTE=wystan;49693333]Please define sociopath for me.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Damjen;49693344][URL="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sociopath"]Source[/URL][/QUOTE] Yea, I'm none of these things within my community.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=wystan;49693382]You're going to tell me? Ok. I'm not anti-social, not a criminal, I have empathy and sympathy for literally everyone who isn't determined to kill me and my fellow citizens.[/QUOTE] [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1505002&p=49700338&viewfull=1#post49700338"]lets not forget this[/URL]

[QUOTE=EcksDee;49878591]Wow ok, so we got you to admit that torture is faulty, and gives you faulty information, next let's get you to admit that [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanns_Scharff]Hanns Scharff[/url] was the most productive and efficient interrogator of all time. Yeah, killed. the American public education system is one of the worst on the planet and leads to A: huge black ghettos where unemployment and crime rate are through the roof, black on black homicide is the greatest it's been in history, all because young kids have nowhere to learn to apply themselves in life. And B: People like you Now if you're honestly going to say that "not being able to access medication that could save one's life" isn't "an american getting killed because of lackluster access to healthcare" then you're so delusional it's not even funny. If I got a deathly illness here in [B]ESTONIA[/B] of all places, a former soviet block, I could go to a doctor, get it diagnosed, and go home with medicine that doesn't bankrupt my family lineage for three generations. If one of your [B]fellow countrymen[/B] got the same illness, they'd charge him 5000 dollars for a visit, 10 000 for medical scans, 200 000 for medication. Meanwhile the care that they would get for these exorbitant prices would be [I]of lower quality than I would get here for near-free[/I][/QUOTE] I read the Hanns Scharff thing, and I enjoyed the read, like I said earlier, lead with that, if they aren't being cooperative and give nothing, escalate. The black poverty bit, that is such a messy issue and our education system is not the cause of that, that is such a bigger issue that I would love to get into some other time but I won't for the sake of this thread, but I can personally tell you the problem with that demographic is not our public education system. As for the big fun issue of healthcare. Estonia is not a comparable nation to the US, from all my reading about Estonia it seems like a wonderful place, I really like how y'all actually spend the required amount on Defense for being a part of NATO. But providing healthcare for a nation that is less populated than some of our cities is not comparable to providing healthcare for the third most populated nation on Earth. I wish it were cheaper too, not free, but cheaper. From what I hear though the wait times in Europe where it is free can be abysmal, again a nation like yours may circumvent that, but at least here if you got the money to pay, you can get treated well and fast, it's not as exaggerated as you make it seem. [editline]6th March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=kyle877;49878617]With this many people telling you "stop being a psycho" you really have to wonder if you're actually reasonable or a sadistic freakazoid.[/QUOTE] [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum[/url] I'm not a sadist.

[QUOTE=wystan;49878638]From what I hear though the wait times in Europe where it is free can be abysmal[/quote] what you hear is shit

[QUOTE=Saturn V;49878664]what you hear is shit[/QUOTE] That's why I didn't say it with any certainty, I don't pretend to know how things work over in countries I don't live. If only other posters could do the same.

[QUOTE=wystan;49878638]I read the Hanns Scharff thing, and I enjoyed the read, like I said earlier, lead with that, if they aren't being cooperative and give nothing, escalate. The black poverty bit, that is such a messy issue and our education system is not the cause of that, that is such a bigger issue that I would love to get into some other time but I won't for the sake of this thread, but I can personally tell you the problem with that demographic is not our public education system. As for the big fun issue of healthcare. Estonia is not a comparable nation to the US, from all my reading about Estonia it seems like a wonderful place, I really like how y'all actually spend the required amount on Defense for being a part of NATO. But providing healthcare for a nation that is less populated than some of our cities is not comparable to providing healthcare for the third most populated nation on Earth. I wish it were cheaper too, not free, but cheaper. From what I hear though the wait times in Europe where it is free can be abysmal, again a nation like yours may circumvent that, but at least here if you got the money to pay, you can get treated well and fast, it's not as exaggerated as you make it seem.[/QUOTE] Estonia is several times poorer per capita than the US. If you got everyone to pay their fare share (like we do) then it would just scale up. Providing healthcare isn't a logarithmic line. [quote]if they aren't being cooperative and give nothing, escalate. [/quote] Yeah see there's the problem, blatantly copying from [url=https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1505002&p=49700338&viewfull=1#post49700338]Zukriuchen's post[/url]: "all the useful intelligence came from traditional non-violent questioning, and that his later waterboarding produced nothing further of value." [URL]http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/dec/09/senate-committee-cia-torture-does-not-work[/URL] "torture does not produce reliable information largely because of the severity with which it impairs the ability to think. Extreme pain, cold, sleep deprivation and fear of torture itself all damage memory, mood and cognition. Torture does not persuade people to make a reasoned decision to cooperate, but produces panic, dissociation, unconsciousness and long-term neurological damage. It also produces an intense desire to keep talking to prevent further torture." [URL]https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22830471-200-torture-doesnt-work-says-science-why-are-we-still-doing-it/[/URL] "He left jail burning with the determination to wage transnational jihad to destroy these regimes and their backers, calling for war against all those who used these methods against Muslims." [URL]http://www.salon.com/2014/12/17/rula_jebreal_torture_defenders_are_driving_america_to_moral_suicide_partner/[/URL] You can't win against data. Human beings in general just [I]are not[/I] vending machines that pop out information when you beat them enough. There's way more to our brains than that.

[QUOTE=wystan;49878672]That's why I didn't say it with any certainty, I don't pretend to know how things work over in countries I don't live. If only other posters could do the same.[/QUOTE] i can respect that but you do realise torture is the same everywhere in the universe and it's bad

[QUOTE=wystan;49878638] [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum[/url] I'm not a sadist.[/QUOTE] You advocate the ruthless, ineffective interrogative torture of other human beings. You're a sadist.