Trump denounces Cuba, will restrict travel and reinstate embargo - Polidicks

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;52367551]99% sure the post you were referring to was sarcastic. Joking that you can just ruin a country until it suddenly horseshoes itself around to being a paradise through violent revolution. History teaches us that that is never the case, the tyrant is replaced with another tyrant in disguise.[/QUOTE] What I meant was that his logic of "making them poor for a revolution of peace" is bullshit.

Update: Trump's announcement was today. Claims Obama made a "one-sided deal" for Americans and he will be reversing all of it, presumably in time. Commentators saying he "single-handedly reignited" the Cold War in the region, and the move is being opposed by American & Cuban business leaders. Outlined plans to cut off cashflow to Cuba. (Remittances are being sent for now, but it seems Cuban military/security will receive nothing in the deal) [url]http://www.miamiherald.com/news/article156502764.html[/url] [url]http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/national-international/President-Trump-to-Announce-Changes-to-Cuba-Policy-in-Miami-428727063.html[/url] Worth another thread? [editline]a[/editline] Some business groups speaking out on the plan: [quote]"U.S. private sector engagement can be a positive force for the kind of change we all wish to see in Cuba," said Myron Brilliant, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce executive vice president and head of international affairs. "Unfortunately, today's moves actually limit the possibility for positive change on the island and risk ceding growth opportunities to other countries that, frankly, may not share America's interest in a free and democratic Cuba that respects human rights." In Cuba, Granma, the official organ of the nation's Communist Party, covered Friday's speech in a real-time blog, saying "Trump's declarations are a return to imperialist rhetoric and unilateral demands, sending relations between Havana and Washington back into the freezer."[/quote]

[QUOTE=TurtleeyFP;52367817]Update: Trump's announcement was today. Claims Obama made a "one-sided deal" for Americans and he will be reversing all of it, presumably in time. Commentators saying he "single-handedly reignited" the Cold War in the region, and the move is being opposed by American & Cuban business leaders. Outlined plans to cut off cashflow to Cuba. (Remittances are being sent for now, but it seems Cuban military/security will receive nothing in the deal) [url]http://www.miamiherald.com/news/article156502764.html[/url] [url]http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/national-international/President-Trump-to-Announce-Changes-to-Cuba-Policy-in-Miami-428727063.html[/url] Worth another thread? [editline]a[/editline] Some business groups speaking out on the plan:[/QUOTE] "Commentators saying he "single-handedly reignited" the Cold War in the region" There needs to be some kind of punishment for fear mongering. There is zero proof of this, and there is no reason it should be said, the only reason it was said is because they're trying to play on fear.

[QUOTE=FlakTheMighty;52367878]"Commentators saying he "single-handedly reignited" the Cold War in the region" There needs to be some kind of punishment for fear mongering. There is zero proof of this, and there is no reason it should be said, the only reason it was said is because they're trying to play on fear.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.latimes.com/opinion/editorials/la-ed-trump-cuba-obama-20170616-story.html[/url] [url]https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/06/cuba-trump-obama-opening/530568/[/url] It's a common sentiment and might not be one that Trump's administration will rebuke. This embargo is meant to pressure the Cuban government into giving in, and restoring relations to when things were bad for Cuba is certainly a way of doing that. If a supporter were here they might say, "Obama's friendliness was helping human rights violations, now we need to scare them into change."

[QUOTE=FlakTheMighty;52367878]"Commentators saying he "single-handedly reignited" the Cold War in the region" There needs to be some kind of punishment for fear mongering. There is zero proof of this, and there is no reason it should be said, the only reason it was said is because they're trying to play on fear.[/QUOTE] Considering that trump is redoing an embargo that existed throughout the cold war, I don't know that's considered fearmongering

[QUOTE=MarcusSmith;52367690]What I meant was that his logic of "making them poor for a revolution of peace" is bullshit.[/QUOTE] But he was joking. That's what elix is trying to tell you.

[QUOTE=FlakTheMighty;52367878]"Commentators saying he "single-handedly reignited" the Cold War in the region" There needs to be some kind of punishment for fear mongering. There is zero proof of this, and there is no reason it should be said, the only reason it was said is because they're trying to play on fear.[/QUOTE] please look up "Cold War" if you think this is a haughty claim

[QUOTE=kariko;52369711]But he was joking. That's what elix is trying to tell you.[/QUOTE] I am an idiot.

[QUOTE=cis.joshb;52377345]please look up "Cold War" if you think this is a haughty claim[/QUOTE] Yeah, nothing regarding Cuba and the modern day other than administration claims. Only Cold War still going on is between Russia, China, and the US.

[QUOTE=Rocko's;52364157]Why the fuck is he doing this? There is literally no reason for him to shit on the[B] progress Obama made[/B]. Stop meddling in shit that doesn't concern you, and stop ruining things that we repaired, bloody twat.[/QUOTE] There's your reason.

My sister and several of my friends in college were able to openly travel to Cuba after Obama lifted the sanctions, and all of them talked about how excited local Cubans were about the embargo ending. My sister brought a cigar back (that we haven't smoked yet), and one of my friends shared his [I]fucking delicious[/I] Cuban rum with me. I want more of that rum, since it's genuinely the best rum I've ever had, and I want to go to Cuba. Fuckin' hell, Trump.

[QUOTE=NeonpieDFTBA;52387403]There's your reason.[/QUOTE] Yeah, it has nothing to do with it being the longstanding policy for decades with an entire party that has continuously wanted it... definitely just because Obama. I see no reason to think lifting the embargo without any requirements will help the people of Cuba. Remember, the embargo from much of Europe has been down for a while now, and we've seen no improvement.

[QUOTE=sgman91;52388080]Yeah, it has nothing to do with it being the longstanding policy for decades with an entire party that has continuously wanted it... definitely just because Obama. I see no reason to think lifting the embargo without any requirements will help the people of Cuba. Remember, the embargo from much of Europe has been down for a while now, and we've seen no improvement.[/QUOTE] Geographically the closest trading partner to Cuba is south american nations and the USA. The USA has a huge role to play on the ideological culture that takes root in Cuba. What does isolating them again do? How does that help? How does that do what you're suggesting a very short disassembly of said embargo would do? I mean it really seems like there's no reason to continue supporting this, and it seems like it wouldn't do any harm to keep it open, it might even help, but nope, can't have that for... what reasons again? Tradition?

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52388209]Geographically the closest trading partner to Cuba is south american nations and the USA. The USA has a huge role to play on the ideological culture that takes root in Cuba. What does isolating them again do? How does that help? How does that do what you're suggesting a very short disassembly of said embargo would do? I mean it really seems like there's no reason to continue supporting this, and it seems like it wouldn't do any harm to keep it open, it might even help, but nope, can't have that for... what reasons again? Tradition?[/QUOTE] Oh, I'm fine with attempting diplomacy with them, but we should require concessions by the government if they want anything from us. Giving in to them isn't going to do anything but make the oppressive government even more wealthy.

[QUOTE=Trebgarta;52390364]The government will eventually concede slowly as human development drives democratic thought. Unlike North Korea. However, if there were a chance to crack open NK as much as Cuba under Obama, that would achieve unbelievable progress.[/QUOTE] There's no reason to think that will happen. It's simply not the given assumption that you guys seem to think it is. Why hasn't the open trade between the rest of the world and Cuba made the government "concede slowly?" The EU is it's second largest trading partner. If anything, the EU has recognized that their position of opening up relations with Cuba, that started in 1996, has failed completely.

[QUOTE=sgman91;52390612]There's no reason to think that will happen. It's simply not the given assumption that you guys seem to think it is. Why hasn't the open trade between the rest of the world and Cuba made the government "concede slowly?" The EU is it's second largest trading partner. If anything, the EU has recognized that their position of opening up relations with Cuba, that started in 1996, has failed completely.[/QUOTE] Okay, so just shut them off from the rest of the world like they're north korea for what reasons again? I know for a fact you've never been to Cuba. I have. There's nothing helping them by doing this, and there's no point in punishing the people there either.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52391020]Okay, so just shut them off from the rest of the world like they're north korea for what reasons again? I know for a fact you've never been to Cuba. I have. There's nothing helping them by doing this, and there's no point in punishing the people there either.[/QUOTE] As if you being to Cuba matters for one second. If you want to play the "I've been to Cuba" card, then go ask the cuban refugees what they think of it. They've been there too, and probably a lot longer than you have. We use leverage against them, yes. I'm not willing to enrich the government of Cuba while gaining nothing for us or the people of Cuba.

[QUOTE=sgman91;52391146]As if you being to Cuba matters for one second. If you want to play the "I've been to Cuba" card, then go ask the cuban refugees what they think of it. They've been there too, and probably a lot longer than you have. We use leverage against them, yes. I'm not willing to enrich the government of Cuba while gaining nothing for us or the people of Cuba.[/QUOTE] The US gains another trading partner with cheap quality medicine, and other goods. The US gains influence over their economy and policy. I don't understand what your goal is other than "This is what the status quo has been, we should go back to it because it's the status quo"

[QUOTE=sgman91;52391146]go ask the cuban refugees what they think of it[/QUOTE] But don't ask them whether they think the US should open up borders to Cuba. Then you might find refugees from the country who welcome the idea.