• Tim Farron: (UK) Lib Dems "deserved 9/10" for university fees negotiation
    53 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Memobot;37798006]If degrees such as Engineering or Physics weren't overshadowed and swamped by stupid ones like 'iPod studies' and 'David Beckham' (Yep. They exist!') we should go for it. Unfortunately, those easier ones are being taken which is why the fees are now in place: to pay for the vast numbers that go to uni. Damn, this system is stupid.[/QUOTE] Yeah there are a lot of useless degrees that people take, the problem is they come out of uni with these titles no one gives a shit for and find that they're in 20-50k debt and not a lot of hope of getting a useful job. Most people who take these kind of degrees also are not really sure on a career and are just kind of dossing about. All uni fees do is separate the rich from the poor, its classism and makes sure the rich stay educated and the poor stay ignorant. In fact my friend only did a year at uni because of the amount of money it costs, he's in 8k debt already and working in Curry's cleaning floors. I want to get into culinary arts and professional cookery and become a cook in a establishment somewhere but with the amount of money it costs I'm put off it, I simply don't want to be tied to a bank for years to come. The biggest joke of course is England pays for Scotland and Wales university's, while English kids have to pay.
[QUOTE=RAG Frag;37797066]Some of the other parties were willing to join to make a majority though.[/QUOTE] But the problem with that is while you would have the majority you would have a hard time passing quite a few things. Say they jumped into a Lib/Lab/UKIP collation they wouldn't have any chance of passing anything EU related.
[QUOTE=rampageturke 2;37797874]you don't get charged 9000 for placement years[/QUOTE] That value does not include placement years. Its 3 years for part 1, then average 2 years work placement, then 2 years for part 2, then average of another two years work placement, then 1 final year for part 3. Summed up. 7 years in university 4 years in placement 11 years in total.
I just find it completely retarded that enough people are struggling to find work at the moment, even with an education. So what do they do? Increase the price of a University education by 3x meaning that even less people will have a degree to get a job with. It's fucked up how these people can force us in to a lifetime debt like this and we can't do shit about it, whilst their kids are going to fucking Eton. [editline]25th September 2012[/editline] yes rampageturk, keep stalking me and rating my posts dumb. boy, you sure have shown me how wrong I am.
I've said it before, I'll say it again. Nick Clegg even mentioned it in his apology video. If you believed that pledge, you were a fool. You should have seen it as an obviously empty promise. Given the prevailing financial conditions of the country, any idiot could have seen that students were an easy target, and the occasionally mentioned idea of removing tuition fees entirely was just utter fantasy. At least the conservatives had some realistic ideas when it came to the election. Either way, politics has lost its way in this country simply because of career politicians. All the leaders are, and lots of their subordinates are. We don't need these pricks who go into parliament for their careers, we need people who go in because they actually care about the electorate. I'm not saying some of these career guys don't, but most of them simply lack the understanding of the country that they're in to make any decent effect. I also think that a prime minister not knowing the price of a pint of milk is irrelevant, and a question worthy of tabloid level idiocy. But that's another issue.
[QUOTE=Bobie;37798144]they are a self-described economic libertarian party. not that i care what umbrella they're under really, i know their fiscal and social policies and i disagree with most of them (except for their thoughts education which are actually pretty cool)[/QUOTE] north korea is a self-described democratic people's republic. it is an autocratic hereditary monarchy. look at what they do rather than what they describe themselves as
[QUOTE=Vasili;37797970]lol yeah in spirit, most people cannot even get a job with their useless degrees. Going to uni doesn't mean a lot anymore, its more of a social badge now than anything. That doesn't mean that its acceptable to make education stupidly expensive when most countries in Europe have free uni.[/QUOTE] But you won't be competitive in the market if you don't have one of these social badges, as explained by [URL="http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2729#comic"]SMBC[/URL].
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWoQWoRjfGs&feature=player_detailpage[/media]
[QUOTE=Bobie;37798001]libertarianism is reason enough to dislike UKIP. it's the exact opposite of what the uk needs and is a pony filled dreamland for those who dislike taxes and fail to understand reality or scientific fact. if UKIP came into power the defence budget would increase exponentially, the NHS would be sold off and the rich would cease to have as many regulations douse all of this in nationalism and racism and you get UKIP[/QUOTE] My god, the ignorance. UKIP would sell off the NHS? They firmly support the NHS and public services, they would have a reform of the NHS to a state where the local NHS branches are controlled by county health boards who are democratically elected as part of the Local Elections. There would be no cuts to NHS budget, just reforming of the way it is run. They will also give people the option to opt out of the NHS and be given coupons which they can spend on private healthcare. So you were severely wrong on the NHS. You are right they will increase Defence budget, by 40% so adding another 1% of GDP to the Defence. Over the last 10 years the Navy and RAF have been viciously cut and should be restored to the level they used to be at in 2001 so we have the capability to defend ourselves and assist our allies. People always say "Oh we have loads of allies, we don't need a massive navy!" or "Oh, who would we ever go to war with?" but look back to 1982! Nobody helped us and the British public never expected such a war to ever happen. And when you say Nationalism I assume you mean traditional Boots and Uniforms nationalism or what UKIP call Blood and Soil Nationalism. The only nationalism UKIP promote is Civic Nationalism which is where anyone from any background, ethnicity or religion ect who wishes to identify themselves as British can be part of the British culture and be proud of that. The whole idea of UKIP being racist is also absurd, another commonly used term is xenophobic which again is absolutely absurd. Any party official who has ever been racist or xenophobic has been expelled from the party and there is a ban on anyone who used to be part of a genuinely racist, nationalist or xenophobic organisation/party from joining e.g BNP, NF, EDL. Maybe you should read their manifesto before you throw shit at them. There are some policies that I disagree with aswell but they are still closer to my views than any other party out there which has a real chance of changing something in Britain.
[QUOTE=Scrappa;37807310]My god, the ignorance. You are right they will increase Defence budget, by 40% so adding another 1% of GDP to the Defence. Over the last 10 years the Navy and RAF have been viciously cut and should be restored to the level they used to be at in 2001 so we have the capability to defend ourselves and assist our allies. People always say "Oh we have loads of allies, we don't need a massive navy!" or "Oh, who would we ever go to war with?" but look back to 1982! Nobody helped us and the British public never expected such a war to ever happen.[/QUOTE] In 1982 we actually got help from America and Chile, let alone France suspending any further Exocet shipments, and had either Invincible or Hermes taken an Exocet, then the US would've provided the USS Iwo Jima as a replacement for the duration of the war. People just think there wasn't any help because it wasn't a US CVBG sailing down with us or anything.
[QUOTE=Scrappa;37807310]My god, the ignorance. UKIP would sell off the NHS? They firmly support the NHS and public services, they would have a reform of the NHS to a state where the local NHS branches are controlled by county health boards who are democratically elected as part of the Local Elections. There would be no cuts to NHS budget, just reforming of the way it is run. They will also give people the option to opt out of the NHS and be given coupons which they can spend on private healthcare. So you were severely wrong on the NHS. You are right they will increase Defence budget, by 40% so adding another 1% of GDP to the Defence. Over the last 10 years the Navy and RAF have been viciously cut and should be restored to the level they used to be at in 2001 so we have the capability to defend ourselves and assist our allies. People always say "Oh we have loads of allies, we don't need a massive navy!" or "Oh, who would we ever go to war with?" but look back to 1982! Nobody helped us and the British public never expected such a war to ever happen. And when you say Nationalism I assume you mean traditional Boots and Uniforms nationalism or what UKIP call Blood and Soil Nationalism. The only nationalism UKIP promote is Civic Nationalism which is where anyone from any background, ethnicity or religion ect who wishes to identify themselves as British can be part of the British culture and be proud of that. The whole idea of UKIP being racist is also absurd, another commonly used term is xenophobic which again is absolutely absurd. Any party official who has ever been racist or xenophobic has been expelled from the party and there is a ban on anyone who used to be part of a genuinely racist, nationalist or xenophobic organisation/party from joining e.g BNP, NF, EDL. Maybe you should read their manifesto before you throw shit at them. There are some policies that I disagree with aswell but they are still closer to my views than any other party out there which has a real chance of changing something in Britain.[/QUOTE] Does this not also assume that by virtue, you must be against the EU?
[QUOTE=Scrappa;37807310]You are right they will increase Defence budget, by 40% so adding another 1% of GDP to the Defence. Over the last 10 years the Navy and RAF have been viciously cut and should be restored to the level they used to be at in 2001 so we have the capability to defend ourselves and assist our allies. People always say "Oh we have loads of allies, we don't need a massive navy!" or "Oh, who would we ever go to war with?" but look back to 1982! Nobody helped us and the British public never expected such a war to ever happen.[/QUOTE] This is absolute nonsense, every metric used to measure how warlike the human race is shows that we are becoming less so at each passing moment. Besides, what makes the UK so special in that it needs to have nuclear weapons and a grand army and navy and inflated defense budget when we're really a nobody in the international arena nowadays? Yeah we've got the security council veto but that's a holdover from when we used to have an Empire. We could learn a couple things from the rest of Europe - they don't have gigantic militaries and nor should we.
[QUOTE=Megafan;37808594]Does this not also assume that by virtue, you must be against the EU?[/QUOTE] UKIP aren't big fans of further European centralization. [editline]26th September 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;37808695]This is absolute nonsense, every metric used to measure how warlike the human race is shows that we are becoming less so at each passing moment. Besides, what makes the UK so special in that it needs to have nuclear weapons and a grand army and navy and inflated defense budget when we're really a nobody in the international arena nowadays? Yeah we've got the security council veto but that's a holdover from when we used to have an Empire. We could learn a couple things from the rest of Europe - they don't have gigantic militaries and nor should we.[/QUOTE] That's mainly because Europe and us have the United States right there to support us.
[QUOTE=Thom12255;37808707]UKIP aren't big fans of further European centralization.[/QUOTE] And what good is that going to accomplish?
[QUOTE=rexxar;37797057]The problem with UK politics is that we don't have any party leader that's even remotely likeable, at least in the three major parties. David Cameron? Jesus christ I'm fed up of that smug grin and posh-boy attitude. Nick Clegg? His surname sounds like something you throw up and Ed Milliband looks like Ray Romano.[/QUOTE] I could spin that around and say the problem with US politics is it's some shallow ego-fest
[QUOTE=rexxar;37797057]The problem with UK politics is that we don't have any party leader that's even remotely likeable, at least in the three major parties. David Cameron? Jesus christ I'm fed up of that smug grin and posh-boy attitude. Nick Clegg? His surname sounds like something you throw up and Ed Milliband looks like Ray Romano. 3 misses. These politicians aren't in anyway relatable to, and I'm dreading the next elections.[/QUOTE] Of those 3, Ray Romano is probably my favourite. That and I think they only call him 'Red Ed' because 'Red' just so happens to rhyme with 'Ed'. Stating the obvious. Or, you could just vote Green, SDLP, Plaid Cymru, or SNP, depending on where you live.
[QUOTE=Megafan;37808873]Of those 3, Ray Romano is probably my favourite. That and I think they only call him 'Red Ed' because 'Red' just so happens to rhyme with 'Ed'. Stating the obvious. Or, you could just vote Green, SDLP, Plaid Cymru, or SNP, depending on where you live.[/QUOTE] SNP will run scotland into the ground if they get their way.
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;37808900]SNP will run scotland into the ground if they get their way.[/QUOTE] Okay, then vote Scottish Labour or whatever you prefer, but how specifically will they run Scotland into the ground?
[QUOTE=Megafan;37808963]Okay, then vote Scottish Labour or whatever you prefer, but how specifically will they run Scotland into the ground?[/QUOTE] Seceding from the Union will do nobody any good at all, their campaign is built around lies and deception.
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;37808695]We could learn a couple things from the rest of Europe - they don't have gigantic militaries and nor should we.[/QUOTE] Notice how as the general European country's defense budget has gone down, the general US defense budget has gone up to make up the gap. I'm sick and tired of people getting all angry about the US being so "militaristic" in comparison to Europe when the reason is very simply because Europe refuses to pull it's own weight in NATO.
[QUOTE=Megafan;37808873]Of those 3, Ray Romano is probably my favourite. That and I think they only call him 'Red Ed' because 'Red' just so happens to rhyme with 'Ed'. Stating the obvious. Or, you could just vote Green, SDLP, Plaid Cymru, or SNP, depending on where you live.[/QUOTE] I'm voting Green if I can, generally because Labour at the moment are a joke. If David came and wrestled control from Ed, and actually came up with something decent, I'd vote Labour again, but at the moment I honestly can't see much difference between them and the Tories. UKIP would be half-way plausible if they weren't dead set on getting us out of the EU, which would screw us over so bad it'd almost be funny.
[QUOTE=Camundongo;37813919]I'm voting Green if I can, generally because Labour at the moment are a joke. If David came and wrestled control from Ed, and actually came up with something decent, I'd vote Labour again, but at the moment I honestly can't see much difference between them and the Tories. UKIP would be half-way plausible if they weren't dead set on getting us out of the EU, which would screw us over so bad it'd almost be funny.[/QUOTE] Well even though UKIP want to leave the EU they are going to put it down to a simple referendum of "EU, in or out?". If the in vote wins they will obviously respect that and we won't leave so even though they want to leave they will still put it down to a referendum. Much like Cameron promised to do so with his cast iron guarantee but then never did. So voting for UKIP would be exactly the same as if you had voted for the Torys in 2010 in terms of their EU policy however UKIP would stick to their promises rather than pretend they never made them and we would get a referendum. And on the Greens, I don't think I could ever vote for them because of their policies on Energy and Europe but their Education policy is brilliant. I think UKIP's education policy is good but the Greens' is just better.
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;37809053]Seceding from the Union will do nobody any good at all, their campaign is built around lies and deception.[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure the whole 'Scottish people don't have to pay for Uni" thing is just them bribing the youth so they have a strong base for the future. I'm glad for it but I wouldn't vote SNP, don't trust them.
[QUOTE=PzOwNeD;37813603]Notice how as the general European country's defense budget has gone down, the general US defense budget has gone up to make up the gap. I'm sick and tired of people getting all angry about the US being so "militaristic" in comparison to Europe when the reason is very simply because Europe refuses to pull it's own weight in NATO.[/QUOTE] "here's me trying to justify 1.4 trillion in military spending and post-war debt"
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