Everytime there is a Israel thread its burnemdown vs starpluck. Its like watching a star wars lightsaber duel.
[QUOTE=Billiam;23166713]Well there's this big blockade thing, and the wanting their own country thing, and the animosity that still lingers from a bitter history thing.[/quote]
2005-2007. No blockade, no occupation, rockets are being fired, Gilad Shalit was kidnapped. Why didn't they stop?
[quote]It's also a Hamas policy to destroy Israel, which I'm not a big fan of.[/quote]
Which is the reason for the blockade. Let me explain this: The blockade, while it indeed makes the Gazans angry at Israel, is necessary because their government is keen on destroying Israel, even without the blockade they would want to do it. So Israel has a choice of either not blockading and letting Hamas get deadly weapons and rockets and continue firing them at her, or keep the blockade, minimize the Hamas' ability to acquire said weapons and rockets and only be able to launch home-made rockets, while getting a few civilians angry at her some more.
[quote]Livestock, medical supplies, electricity and building materials are not luxury items.[/quote]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_strip#Economy[/url]
"Israel supplies the Gaza Strip with electricity."
Building materials are allowed when humanitarian groups and the UN asks for them, and they use them to reconstruct buildings, I don't see what's the problem here.
Livestock are indeed luxury items, they're also harder to transfer than meat or milk or whatever could be harvested from them. What I mean is that transferring 2 cows could take just as much time and work as transferring 4 cows-worth of meat and milk.
[quote]If the Gaza Strip and West Bank were independent then we wouldn't be having this conversation. The Gaza Strip is not it's own country and state, officially, they're under control of Israel and politically Israel has a gigantic share in how Gaza is run.[/quote]
So Israel had a gingantic share in the Hamas refusing to extend the cease-fire (although with good reason) which then led to intensified rocket launches and Operation: Cast Lead?
[quote]The point being there are pretty big differences between the occupation of the West Bank by the Jordanians and the occupation of the West Bank by Israel.[/QUOTE]
Actually I was mistaken, because the Jordanians treated the Palestinians just fine, granted them citizenship and all that, but both occupations were still peaceful until 1987.
The main difference I see between them, is that the Jordanians gave the Palestinians citizenship, while Israel didn't, and Israeli settlers also moved into the West Bank, while Wikipedia doesn't say anything about a significant Jordanian expansion in the area.
[QUOTE=starpluck;23172248]Goldstone and HRW found no evidence on the use of human shields.[/QUOTE]
Perhaps they missed my post: [url]http://www.facepunch.com/showpost.php?p=23153521&postcount=91[/url]
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23175269]2005-2007. No blockade, no occupation, rockets are being fired, Gilad Shalit was kidnapped. Why didn't they stop?[/QUOTE]
The disengagement hardly ended the occupation.
Israel still had control of the waters around Gaza, still had control of the flow of goods, had control of the airspace, and maintained control of a lot other facets of life. The Gaza Strip was still treated as an occupied territory afterwords by foreign powers and rightly so, without an official deal between the Palestinians and Israel there will be little change.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23175269]Which is the reason for the blockade. Let me explain this: The blockade, while it indeed makes the Gazans angry at Israel, is necessary because their government is keen on destroying Israel, even without the blockade they would want to do it. So Israel has a choice of either not blockading and letting Hamas get deadly weapons and rockets and continue firing them at her, or keep the blockade, minimize the Hamas' ability to acquire said weapons and rockets and only be able to launch home-made rockets, while getting a few civilians angry at her some more.
[/QUOTE]
The blockade is one of the most ineffective preventative measures the Israelis have ever deployed, the only thing only task it serves is pissing off civilians, making lives miserable, and empowering Hamas. You can't honestly be implying that it completed it's objective, if you want to crack down on arms, then you crack down on smuggling and arms, not goods and essentials. The choice Israel has is continuing the severity of violence and making life harder in an already horrible place or not.
[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_strip#Economy"][QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23175269]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_strip#Economy[/QUOTE][/URL][QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23175269]
"Israel supplies the Gaza Strip with electricity."
Building materials are allowed when humanitarian groups and the UN asks for them, and they use them to reconstruct buildings, I don't see what's the problem here.
Livestock are indeed luxury items, they're also harder to transfer than meat or milk or whatever could be harvested from them. What I mean is that transferring 2 cows could take just as much time and work as transferring 4 cows-worth of meat and milk.[/QUOTE]
According the CIA World Fact Book, the source cited in the wikipedia article, the Gaza Strip has a power consumption to population ratio less than pretty much all countries, which hardly qualifies as supplying electricity. Building materials are strictly controlled, which is exactly what a territory constantly needing to rebuild doesn't need, especially if it the quotas don't fit the need.
Excuse me, what are you talking about with this time and work thing? Breeding livestock is essential if the Gaza Strip ever wants to be self sustaining and they can't breed livestock if they have no livestock.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23175269]So Israel had a gingantic share in the Hamas refusing to extend the cease-fire (although with good reason) which then led to intensified rocket launches and Operation: Cast Lead?[/QUOTE]
Gigantic share =/= Total control
When you have strict control of the quality of life the entire population of a region has and you can easily kill the entire territory you have a gigantic share in how the place is run. Total control is impossible, so long as people think freely.
[QUOTE=Billiam;23162715]I never said that I supported the Egyptian restrictions. :colbert:
Yeah, it is.[/QUOTE]
Huh? You were saying that Israel regaulates everything that goes into Gaza Strip... That isn't true...
[QUOTE=ohadje;23176493]Huh? You were saying that Israel regaulates everything that goes into Gaza Strip... That isn't true...[/QUOTE]
No I said that the goods smuggled in were still illegal by Israeli standards, which is likely true. :smug:
[sp]But yeah, you're right, I overlooked Egypt.[/sp]
[QUOTE=Billiam;23176550]No I said that the goods smuggled in were still illegal by Israeli standards, which is likely true. :smug:
[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure Egypt regaulates AK47s as well... just sayin'.
[img]http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/WO-AB594_MIDEAS_G_20100701190352.jpg[/img]
I'M ON A BOAT MOTHA FUCKA DON'T YOU EVA FOWGET!!!! :coolfish:
I might smile when i hear the news: Terrorists strike agian: isreali govermentbuilding covered in toiletpaper.
And BurnEmDown, get that dirt out of your eyes, not everything Isreal does can be explained by "At least we got some terrorists too".
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23161832]I'm happy that ONLY a thousand of innocents got killed.[/QUOTE]
ahahahaha holy shit, you're just such a bad, reprehensible human being
you just don't think about shit, do you
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23161832][B]I'm happy that ONLY a thousand of innocents got killed. Do you have any idea how many people usually die in wars like that, when the enemy is hiding in cities and using its own civilians as human shields?[/B]
[editline]01:24AM[/editline]
When rockets are fired at you from your neighbor you're supposed to be able to defend yourself.
Edit: and essential surviving supplies were never banned or restricted.[/QUOTE]
In the words of Ed, "dig a hole dig a hole dig a hole"
[img]http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/object2/967/6/n239619137762_9997.jpg[/img]
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