Google CEO: Internet Anonymity is dangerous - Polidicks

The difference is, you still have freedom of speech on the internet... just a new law might say you have to attach your name to it. What is the problem with that?

I welcome our new overlords

[QUOTE=LaserOfDoom;23979167]Because of the freedom of speech. Sure, it sounds cliche and over-used, but it's a right that should be defended. It's a main founding principle of many modern democracies and it's being ignored more and more often. It doesn't matter if people are assholes with that freedom, it's the point that they are given that freedom and that the government cannot judge on it as wrong. Hell, it should be legal to "defame your boss" on television and other media too, but the freedom of those forms has been cut short. The internet is the final frontier of free speech. Yes, I understand that this would also apply to racists being allowed to spread their words. But technically, that should be allowed. Whether or not the person being heckled by words is insulted by it is another story.[/QUOTE] do you even realize what legalizing defamation would entail? it's about far more than being an asshole. defamation can destroy someone's reputation which can really ruin their career, or even their life.

I think what hes trying to get at here is that all your information will be kept private, but the government and possibly high paying companies will have access to a little info about you. In other words the bojo user posting in some forum won't know shit about you, but if say.. some cyber-police guy (idk) thought you might be watching child porn, he can go and get a lil' information about you so he can investigate further.

You can't abuse "freedom of speech" in an attempt to hurt someone, anonymously anymore? Good. By asking you to sign your name onto something written onto the internet, you still have freedom of speech.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;23979265]The difference is, you still have freedom of speech on the internet... just a new law might say you have to attach your name to it. What is the problem with that?[/QUOTE] I don't want to risk harassment for my opinion on some issues or maybe I want to express something to people without feeling the need to actually expose myself. So I go anonymous

[QUOTE=DogGunn;23979265]What is the problem with that?[/QUOTE] Well I could see one problem with it: [url]http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2010/05/27/2010-05-27_video_gamer_hunts_down_stabs_man_who_killed_his_online_counterstrike_character.html[/url] But I'm not sure if he's talking about everyone being able to see your name, or just the government so they can crack down on cyber crime. Because that would be a big difference.

Google used to be cool :Dawkins102:

[QUOTE=nick10510;23979282]I think what hes trying to get at here is that all your information will be kept private, but the government and possibly high paying companies will have access to a little info about you. In other words the bojo user posting in some forum won't know shit about you, but if say.. some cyber-police guy (idk) thought you might be watching child porn, he can go and get a lil' information about you so he can investigate further.[/QUOTE] Ahh, no. That's not what's being said. [QUOTE=Billiam;23979296]I don't want to risk harassment for my opinion on some issues or maybe I want to express something to people without feeling the need to actually expose myself. So I go anonymous[/QUOTE] I understand that, and in maybe some situations that would be okay - but currently, the right to withholding your name to comments made on the internet seems to be getting a fair bit of abuse.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;23979247]It's okay to defame people everyone...[/QUOTE] The guy who actually said what started your tangent said "talk shit about", not "cause a legally private person substantial enough damages to qualify me for a defamation suit."[QUOTE=DogGunn;23978880]Internet anonymity has spawned leaks (for instance, Wikileaks [if it's a good thing or not is another matter])[/QUOTE] Wikileaks is undeniably wonderful. There's no debate there. Even when they're causing a ruckus about nothing they're still a good thing to have around. [QUOTE=JDK721;23978920]back to yahoo I guess[/QUOTE] Scroogle. It's maintained by a nutjob and looks horrible, but it's also completely anonymous.

[QUOTE=Billiam;23979296]I don't want to risk harassment for my opinion on some issues or maybe I want to express something to people without feeling the need to actually expose myself. So I go anonymous[/QUOTE] I agree, especially since the internet is so hostile with people like the 4channers around. Still, even if you go anonymous, you're not exactly safe from them :ohdear:

[QUOTE=DamagePoint;23979310]Well I could see one problem with it: [url]http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2010/05/27/2010-05-27_video_gamer_hunts_down_stabs_man_who_killed_his_online_counterstrike_character.html[/url][/QUOTE] I really struggle to see the relation to that. I know what you're trying to say, but it's just such an odd case, I don't think you can really use it. In the end, the person behind the knife (or Julien Barreaux) is still fucked up, even if they use a gaming alias or not. [QUOTE=DamagePoint;23979310]But I'm not sure if he's talking about everyone being able to see your name, or just the government so they can crack down on cyber crime. Because that would be a big difference.[/QUOTE] I don't believe that's what is being entailed.

I'll give Google some slack. They've done a lot of good in the past, I refuse to believe that they're becoming hypocrites now. Eventually the internet will come to an end in its anonymity. Eventually. Google may just be trying to cushion the fall or give it more slack for when it finally happens.

it's not like this is going to happen any time soon i'm thinking at least 5 years before "a [verified] name service for people" is even feasible

Ok, I may have chosen my words wrong, and read defamation as "just calling your boss an asshole". And so I contradicted myself. Defamation would actually go under the example DoctorSalt gave of hurting somebody's actual life. I'm already quoted, so I can't change what I said to save face, but my intent was skewed because it's 1:00 am over here and sometimes I read words to mean other things.

[QUOTE=Xenocidebot;23979322]The guy who actually said what started your tangent said "talk shit about", not "cause a legally private person substantial enough damages to qualify me for a defamation suit."[/QUOTE] What's the point in talking shit about someone if you're not attempting to cause them harm? You don't have to intend to cause harm to someone to be liable for any form of defamation, the plaintiff just has to show they've been injured in some was as a result of the remarks. [QUOTE=Xenocidebot;23979322]Wikileaks is undeniably wonderful. There's no debate there. Even when they're causing a ruckus about nothing they're still a good thing to have around.[/QUOTE] Wikileaks is another matter altogether. The most recent leak has come about due to the Army's policies. [QUOTE=Xenocidebot;23979322]Scroogle. It's maintained by a nutjob and looks horrible, but it's also completely anonymous.[/QUOTE] Anyone who uses Scroogle on a regular basis is probably a nutjob. [editline]03:10PM[/editline] [QUOTE=LaserOfDoom;23979418]Ok, I may have chosen my words wrong, and read defamation as "just calling your boss an asshole". And so I contradicted myself. Defamation would actually go under the example DoctorSalt gave of hurting somebody's actual life.[/QUOTE] You wouldn't badmouth your boss in person, so why would you publish it on the internet for the world to see? That makes no sense to me.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;23979284]You can't abuse "freedom of speech" in an attempt to hurt someone, anonymously anymore? Good. By asking you to sign your name onto something written onto the internet, you still have freedom of speech.[/QUOTE] Are you serious? Or are you just playing the devil's advocate? Are you really suggesting that all internet activity histories should be openly available to everyone? Because I must say that I disagree absolutely. A huge part of the internet culture is the anonymity of it all. Surely you must agree with that at least. Google has been giving the results of searches to the government for a long time now, we really shouldn't be surprised.

brb switching to bing

[QUOTE=imarawrus;23979455]Are you serious?[/QUOTE] Yes. [QUOTE=imarawrus;23979455]Or are you just playing the devil's advocate?[/quote] Lol. [QUOTE=imarawrus;23979455]Are you really suggesting that all internet activity histories should be openly available to everyone?[/quote] Nope. I'm saying, if you make a comment / publish something on the internet, you should have your name to it. I mean, you already do it on Facebook, so why not the rest of the internet.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;23979315]I understand that, and in maybe some situations that would be okay - but currently, the right to withholding your name to comments made on the internet seems to be getting a fair bit of abuse.[/QUOTE] Don't remove anonymity because others are spoiling it, harassment, defamation, and computer fraud/hacking are still crimes and you should crack down on people for that. Eliminating something that isn't a crime itself as a preventative measure is dumb.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;23979422] You wouldn't badmouth your boss in person, so why would you publish it on the internet for the world to see? That makes no sense to me.[/QUOTE] To vent perhaps? So that you don't blow up on your boss in person. To let others know your opinion? You say that the idea of net anonymity makes no sense to you, well the reverse makes no sense to me. I don't believe that the acts of a few should damn the whole of those that use the internet. I believe what the CEO of Google is proposing is pretty Draconian to me, and to be honest that bothers me quite a bit.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;23979492] Nope. I'm saying, if you make a comment / publish something on the internet, you should have your name to it. I mean, you already do it on Facebook, so why not the rest of the internet.[/QUOTE] Facebook is a website, it's private ownership. The people can regulate it however they please.

[QUOTE=Billiam;23979509]Don't remove anonymity because others are spoiling it, harassment, defamation, and computer fraud/hacking are still crimes and you should crack down on people for that.[/QUOTE] You can't be anonymous in any other medium, so why the Internet?

[QUOTE=DogGunn;23979422]You wouldn't badmouth your boss in person, so why would you publish it on the internet for the world to see? That makes no sense to me.[/QUOTE] Well of course you wouldn't do it in person, because then you would get fired. But it's the concept of being able to say what you want to which I defend. I'm not focusing on the idea of the boss as much as I'm focusing on the idea of free speech. But I can give a nice example using the boss. People say bad things about their bosses all the time on the internet anyway, without fear of being known. On multiple websites, they can speak their mind "on the internet for the world to see" with no fear of repercussions due to not needing identification. Without anonymity, that's not possible, because their boss could identify them with a simple search of whatever their designated identification would be. You could then easily escalate that idea to the government of course, if you want to see the problem larger scale. Also the words below me.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;23979422]What's the point in talking shit about someone if you're not attempting to cause them harm? You don't have to intend to cause harm to someone to be liable for any form of defamation, the plaintiff just has to show they've been injured in some was as a result of the remarks. You wouldn't badmouth your boss in person, so why would you publish it on the internet for the world to see? That makes no sense to me.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Billiam;23979296]I don't want to risk harassment for my opinion on some issues or maybe I want to express something to people without feeling the need to actually expose myself. So I go anonymous[/QUOTE] .

[QUOTE=DogGunn;23978880]Is anyone actually denying that internet anonymity is dangerous? Internet anonymity has spawned leaks (for instance, Wikileaks [if it's a good thing or not is another matter]), grouped together people who vandalise / trash / talk dirt over the internet (for instance /b/), cyberbullying, stalking... etc. Or is everyone upset that the Google CEO thinks you shouldn't be able to be an asshole under the name JEEAS23 anymore.[/QUOTE] It keeps the world in check. We need an unregulated global medium to communicate through. Remember all of Iranian citizens that posted videos of the riots after their election? What do you think Iran would do if they could identify those users? Sure, there are dangers associated with anonymity, but that doesn't mean that we should put an end to it. Stalking and bullying take place outside of the internet too, but that doesn't mean that we should all be fitted with unique ID chips. I'm just as anonymous when I'm walking around on the street as I am when I'm on the internet. If I commit a serious crime in either realm, I can still get caught.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;23979422]What's the point in talking shit about someone if you're not attempting to cause them harm?[/QUOTE] Well shit, if they're posting it anonymously and where the target can't see it? Probably letting off some steam. Everybody needs to rant from time to time. Hey, look, folks are doing it here! What I want to know is what kind of robot you are that you assume everyone on the planet is a malicious histrionic douchebag who only speaks directly to the people they have problems with. If that were the case, I'm willing to bet they'd probably just deck their bosses rather than talk shit to complete strangers. [QUOTE=DogGunn;23979422]You don't have to intend to cause harm to someone to be liable for any form of defamation, the plaintiff just has to show they've been injured in some was as a result of the remarks.[/QUOTE] The tolerance for what is considered "harm" for a private person is titanic. Specifically because it could be frivolously abused by any asshole who got put down by someone else when the appropriate response 70% is to fucking deal with it. [QUOTE=DogGunn;23979422]Anyone who uses Scroogle on a regular basis is probably a nutjob.[/QUOTE] Well sure, but it's there, and as a statement it works just fine. Hell, I'll give the owner the benefit of the doubt and say his Wikipedia hatred is justified (let's be honest, Jimbo is a scumbag.) The problem is that guy also having a biff with: -The mob -Every US president since FDR -JFK -The people who "really" associated JFK, including: -The CIA -Aliens -The governor of Illinois or some shit -Arnold Schwarzenegger

[QUOTE=imarawrus;23979511]To vent perhaps? So that you don't blow up on your boss in person. To let others know your opinion?[/QUOTE] If that's what you want to use the internet for, then why not put your name to it? "I hate my boss." - John Doe Nothing wrong with that. But at the moment, it's: "I hate my boss. I want to blow him the fuck up. 2:32AM today a bomb outside his house will blow up." - ? [QUOTE=Billiam;23979530]Facebook is a website, it's private ownership. The people can regulate it however they please.[/QUOTE] It was an example rather than a point.

[QUOTE=imarawrus;23979455]Are you serious? Or are you just playing the devil's advocate? Are you really suggesting that all internet activity histories should be openly available to everyone? Because I must say that I disagree absolutely. A huge part of the internet culture is the anonymity of it all. Surely you must agree with that at least. Google has been giving the results of searches to the government for a long time now, we really shouldn't be surprised.[/QUOTE] what he didn't suggest that at all there is also no evidence that google hands over search data to the government, though they could be forced to according to the patriot act

[QUOTE=DogGunn;23979538]You can't be anonymous in any other medium, so why the Internet?[/QUOTE] Uh, I can publish writing, visual arts, music anonymously. I can chose to appear on certain television shows with a hidden identity. I can do a lot of stuff without revealing my identity really, I don't know what you're talking about.