• USGS Finds ~20,000,000,000 Barrels Worth of Oil Under Texas
    97 replies, posted
[QUOTE=_Axel;51383144]Why is population even relevant? You have a big population but also a big economy to match. You have a higher GDP per capita than countries with social security systems far better than yours.[/QUOTE] How can you have a big economy when a substantial portion of the population is on government-provided income and not working?
[QUOTE=Judas;51382553]I don't think basic income is even remotely pheasable in a country with 320,000,000 people[/QUOTE] Actually, don't give to every person, just give to adults and adjust it (with a cap) based on dependents. Best estimate of adults in the US I could find is 242,470,820. At 1500 USD per adult, the cost, rounding up, is 385 Billion USD (gotta have some red tape, eh?), it is still LESS than the cost of Social Security at 888 Billion USD which only serves about 40 million people. EDIT: Actually nevermind, I'm doing sleepy math, that's more like 4.3 Trillion. The total cost of all welfare programs (including SS) is approximately 3.6 Trillion, so Universal Income isn't too far fetched if you got rid of the other welfare programs entirely.
Maybe only give a living wage and end it once you make a certain salary. That way you wouldn't be paying everyone, and anyone that wanted to excel in life would still pursue careers in whatever industries exist. Your basic income will be there to keep you off the streets and out of poverty, but if you want to do anything more than just exist, you gotta work for it. Basically, you're paying the lowest tax bracket enough money to keep them not-homeless. Which would probably have tangible economic and societal benefits in crime/poverty and shit.
[QUOTE=Ridge;51383732]How can you have a big economy when a substantial portion of the population is on government-provided income and not working?[/QUOTE] idk, you'd probably have to abolish minimum wage completely and replace it with UBI and government sponsored health care so that we remove the cap on what jobs are actually employable. You can't hire people for jobs if the work they're doing isn't worth min wage, it would certainly boom the service industry for previously unemployable people for anything that robots simply can't do either better or cheaper. It would slash/counter unemployment and allow people to earn more than what they'd otherwise be stuck with under UBI or other welfare schemes. TBH I'm excited for the robo-revolution because it could potentially bring cheap industrial manufacturing back into the country, even if it's not bringing back as many jobs, it'll bring back some of the money into our economy. However any UBI scheme would inherently shift a massive amount of the tax burden to corporations, not saying that's a bad thing just something to consider.
How did we go from oil reserves to basic income We need oil for other products besides petroleum like for making plastics and medicines. Even if oil prices go down I still see electric cars becoming more mainstream because it diversifies our transportation infrastructure (meaning we won't be as fucked as the 1970s if oil gets taken hostage) and because electric cars seem to be adopting new auto technology far faster than motor vehicles. People like new stuff and will buy electric cars to get it.
[QUOTE=OvB;51383751]Maybe only give a living wage and end it once you make a certain salary. That way you wouldn't be paying everyone, and anyone that wanted to excel in life would still pursue careers in whatever industries exist. Your basic income will be there to keep you off the streets and out of poverty, but if you want to do anything more than just exist, you gotta work for it. Basically, you're paying the lowest tax bracket enough money to keep them not-homeless. Which would probably have tangible economic and societal benefits in crime/poverty and shit.[/QUOTE] It disincentivizes working if you do it like that.
[QUOTE=Morgen;51384049]It disincentivizes working if you do it like that.[/QUOTE] Isn't this how welfare works in America People get stuck on welfare because they lose it after making a certain amount which drops them back into poverty
Good job Trump wants to make Nuclear energy a thing again. This is really not that much oil in comparison to global demand we are finding less oil than we consume every single year and this is what causes problems, finding this [i]"smallish"[/i] amount of oil will not change anything apart from businessmen will see it as a potential future investment. We need to move on from oil, it is shit, we know it and has been proved many times. We can make bioplastics, bio-rubber from trees, energy from other sources (thorium is a great idea), so I reckon we would be fine without it. There will always be people who will say "But what about my v6 or v8?" well stop being selfish and buy a more economical car, no need for a big dumb loud car that costs a shit load to run not only for them but for the environment. There are alternatives and I am glad the UK has recently surpassed coal with solar, amazing feat. Hope to see America really ramp its nuclear power up
[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;51383390]And what would the effect be on people's health and psychology? I don't really think people are built for not having jobs. There is a depression that forms when one isn't contributing. Would people simply wallow in depression or take to the arts, if not for money then for their mental health? Like how we give old people art projects and plants to grow to help keep them happy. But at the same time, all the stresses of the hard labor jobs would be gone from most people's lives. Would drug use rise as a way to cope with boredom? Would crime be as bad anymore? Is there much reason to rob a guy if you already have an income whoever you are? Would homelessness be able to vanish as a problem? Not to mention if we did do that it would almost certainly in my mind be a major upheaval to how the country's economics would work.[/QUOTE] I've thought of this, it's actually a really good setup for a dystopian sci-fi. Humanity has achieved a state where all work is done by the machines, meanwhile humans are completely useless, so they spend their days doing drugs and causing havoc because it's better than killing yourself from crippling depression like the other half of humanity. Surely someone must have done it already. It's too good not to have been.
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;51383794] We need oil for other products besides petroleum like for making plastics and medicines.[/QUOTE] Should definitely be stopped from being used as an energy source for our cars and homes asap though More money has to go to developing even safer and more efficient nuclear reactors that can actually utilize most of the fuel put into them
[QUOTE=joshthesmith;51384083] There will always be people who will say "But what about my v6 or v8?" well [B]stop being selfish and buy a more economical car[/B], no need for a big dumb loud car that costs a shit load to run not only for them but for the environment.[/QUOTE] In your dreams, my friend.
[QUOTE=Rixxz2;51385737]Should definitely be stopped from being used as an energy source for our cars and homes asap though More money has to go to developing even safer and more efficient nuclear reactors that can actually utilize most of the fuel put into them[/QUOTE] You're Preaching to the choir. The only way to get rid of oil in transportation is to economically outcompete ICE cars with electric vehicles. Government subsidies and taxes go away after a few rounds in Congress, but dumping money into R&D or electric infrastructure like charging stations will last for quite a while.
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[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;51383794]How did we go from oil reserves to basic income We need oil for other products besides petroleum like for making plastics and medicines. Even if oil prices go down I still see electric cars becoming more mainstream because it diversifies our transportation infrastructure (meaning we won't be as fucked as the 1970s if oil gets taken hostage) and because electric cars seem to be adopting new auto technology far faster than motor vehicles. People like new stuff and will buy electric cars to get it.[/QUOTE] How does oil help in making medicine?
[QUOTE=Da Big Man;51382101]Can we link "oh boy here we go" please somebody[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Vitisus;51382120][url=https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1336387&p=43252922&highlight=#post43252922]here you go bub[/url] dear spetsnaz95 please read this ok bye[/QUOTE] But he wasn't talking about nuclear power, he was talking about oil.
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;51385901]You're Preaching to the choir. The only way to get rid of oil in transportation is to economically outcompete ICE cars with electric vehicles. Government subsidies and taxes go away after a few rounds in Congress, but dumping money into R&D or electric infrastructure like charging stations will last for quite a while.[/QUOTE] But here is where the circular logic is going to happen. We have a system that currently works and a lot of people currently use it, which is petroleum. However we are going to run out of oil at some point so research is necessary. Then we keep finding more oil wells so rnd can be postponed yet again and oil companies are happy for some more years because they won't have to invest to retain their market position.
[QUOTE=Recurracy;51390222]How does oil help in making medicine?[/QUOTE] petroleum products (benzene is a common one) are used in the production of a lot of medicines
Electric cars are only possible because of oil, oil is the staple ingredient of most of the things that go to produce a car. Unless teleporting becomes a thing very soon then worldwide travel would cease to exist without oil. Exports would become obsolete too and all those that advocate armageddon without free trade would be concerned.
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;51391514]petroleum products (benzene is a common one) are used in the production of a lot of medicines[/QUOTE] Such as? It sounds pretty weird to me how petroleum products are used in medicine of all things. I'd imagine petroleum is quite contradictory to human health...
[QUOTE=Recurracy;51391679]Such as? It sounds pretty weird to me how petroleum products are used in medicine of all things. I'd imagine petroleum is quite contradictory to human health...[/QUOTE] Benzene is carcinogenic, but it is found in aspirin and ibuprofen amongst quite a few more.
[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51391699]Benzene is carcinogenic, but it is found in aspirin and ibuprofen amongst quite a few more.[/QUOTE] Benzene [I]on its own[/I] is a carcinogen, but tons of non-carcinogenic compounds contain aromatic benzene rings. [editline]18th November 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Recurracy;51391679]Such as? It sounds pretty weird to me how petroleum products are used in medicine of all things. I'd imagine petroleum is quite contradictory to human health...[/QUOTE] Yeah chemistry is interesting like that. The same hydrocarbons that you use for fuel are pretty commonly used in lots of other stuff.
For petroleum engineers here, what's the level of recycling petroleum products currently? If possible, could we minimize crude oil production and simply recycle from plastics, car tires, etc?
[QUOTE=LoneWolf_Recon;51391936]For petroleum engineers here, what's the level of recycling petroleum products currently? If possible, could we minimize crude oil production and simply recycle from plastics, car tires, etc?[/QUOTE] Doesn't Coca Cola use plant-based plastic compounds already? Soda bottles made from organic material plastic is gonna cut down on our waste immensely alone.
[QUOTE=Recurracy;51391679]Such as? It sounds pretty weird to me how petroleum products are used in medicine of all things. I'd imagine petroleum is quite contradictory to human health...[/QUOTE] [t]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3a/Aspirin-B-3D-balls.png/800px-Aspirin-B-3D-balls.png[/t] That ring in the middle there is benzene. Just add some crap around and lo... You get aspirin.
[QUOTE=DiBBs27;51382091]This is a very sad realization. People care more about their immediate economic status than the literal life and death of the planet they are even barely allowed to exist on. Humans are very self centered.[/QUOTE] So what you are saying is when the choice is given between * eviction, social, economical and often political exclusion... * slowly poison themselves and others... people pick the second? hmm, maybe the problem is they have to pick between dog turds and dog diarrhoea... Its not the people at fault, its the policies and the system.
it's peoples fault, who else has buildt system? cats? aliens?
[QUOTE=niiiiiiiiok;51382336]they dont give a shit about the future, they don't want to starve or have to live on foodstamps after losing their jobs now[/QUOTE] As much as I hate to say it we really dont have a choice. A couple million people losing their livelihoods =/= the literal downfall of a good portion of modern civilization. We're talking entire countries literally being underwater. Yeah it sucks for people who rely on the oil industry but in end it has to be done. Progress will always have a price and the sooner the oil industry dies the better. [editline]19th November 2016[/editline] It'll be the same thing that happened to textile workers in the 1800s due to increase automation. It'll suck but society will adjust.
Society is increasingly less able to cope with the loss of jobs like this, though. In the 1800s there was other stuff you could go do. As the job market shrinks thanks to automation, there will be more people who can't just "get another job".
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;51399285]Society is increasingly less able to cope with the loss of jobs like this, though. In the 1800s there was other stuff you could go do. As the job market shrinks thanks to automation, there will be more people who can't just "get another job".[/QUOTE] We're gonna have a lot less jobs when there are no more fishes and most major cities have to be abandoned due to coastal flooding. Other jobs will either pop up, or society will have to adapt to having progressively less jobs in the face of increasing automation and to protect our environment.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;51399285]Society is increasingly less able to cope with the loss of jobs like this, though. In the 1800s there was other stuff you could go do. As the job market shrinks thanks to automation, there will be more people who can't just "get another job".[/QUOTE] It's mostly that there's a shrinking number of jobs that are actually worth paying someone minimum wage + benefits for. There's plenty of work to be done in the U.S., but it's too expensive to pay people to do it. This is part of why it pisses me off when people get defensive for illegal immigrants working in agriculture, clearly the work is there, but apparently it's worth less than minimum wage so Americans are left on the side lines as people work under minimum wage in our own country.
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