Visual Studio 11 Express will be able to create Metro apps only - Polidicks

[QUOTE=hexpunK;36059596] It would take a cock up of astronomical proportions to end MS in one product. Windows 8 is nowhere near that bad.[/QUOTE] Microsoft could litterally put a turd in a box and sell it as Windows and people would still buy it because of how ubuqioutious Windows has become through their illegal business practices in the past. [editline]22nd May 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Panda X;36059747]The Beta UI or the RC UI. Or both?[/QUOTE] RC. [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/o6BYk.png[/IMG] More space efficient meaning takes up more space. Lol. And all caps.

I didn't notice that the RC's toolbar/chrome took up more space, I find that a tad humorous. Perhaps there'll be more changes. I can't say I care at all for the all caps toolbar either.

Microsoft has gone down hill sence 2001 when they adopted hiring people from India, which worked on vista and hid their errors for cultural reasons. Bugs were fixed and windows 7 got out, but the new method for development for win 8 is insane, this is just one public example. win 9 will fix those problems and win 10 I have no idea. Bill Gates was so right to want the company to split up.

[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;36059715] The Windows tablet market will never be as lucrative as the iOS market. If you want to make tablet apps, develop for iPad.[/QUOTE] Competition is healthy, I'd rather like a windows tablet instead of an iPad because seeing as the desktop is included I think it'd be more useful as I get all my desktop apps. I have an iPad, it's a good tool for business, school and personal work but I think microsoft may have a chance here.

[QUOTE=fruxodaily;36061098]Competition is healthy, I'd rather like a windows tablet instead of an iPad because seeing as the desktop is included I think it'd be more useful as I get all my desktop apps. I have an iPad, it's a good tool for business, school and personal work but I think microsoft may have a chance here.[/QUOTE] you aren't going to get all your desktop apps in desktop on a tablet, champ.

[QUOTE=fruxodaily;36059712]This, VS11 being metro only may not be a bad thing, you could make your app useful for people in the tablet sector, some good potential could be had in this sector and if I could code I'd be definitely taking advantage of this now in the CP/RC stage.[/QUOTE] The point is that they're taking freedoms away from [B]DEVELOPERS[/B]. This is bad.

[QUOTE=Mr. Smartass;36062026]The point is that they're taking freedoms away from [B]DEVELOPERS[/B]. This is bad.[/QUOTE] Your point is wrong because older versions of Visual Studio will still be available to download long after Visual Studio 11 is out and long after it isn't the newest version anymore. You can still download Visual Studio 2005 directly from Microsoft for fucks sake. If a developer wants to create a desktop application they can either pony up for VS11 Pro or just use VS2010.

[QUOTE=Zanfall;36062150]Your point is wrong because older versions of Visual Studio will still be available to download long after Visual Studio 11 is out and long after it isn't the newest version anymore. You can still download Visual Studio 2005 directly from Microsoft for fucks sake. If a developer wants to create a desktop application they can either pony up for VS11 Pro or just use VS2010.[/QUOTE] For right now it's fine, but in the future, there's a very good chance that it won't be possible to make an application that's current-gen on windows OS with Microsoft's software.

[QUOTE=Lazor;36061832]you aren't going to get all your desktop apps in desktop on a tablet, champ.[/QUOTE] I know, I would only have chrome, skype and probably steam as desktop apps, I would only use steam for chatting.

I don't like the direction Windows looks like it is headed. I use Windows because it lets me do more advanced tasks with the computer quickly and easily, and I loathe using OSX because it is the opposite. I do not want an operating system that is heavily streamlined toward writing emails and browsing the damn internet at the cost of usability in other areas.

[QUOTE=Mr. Smartass;36062026]The point is that they're taking freedoms away from [B]DEVELOPERS[/B]. This is bad.[/QUOTE] AFAIK, the VS compilers are free. The Visual Studio product is just an overly complicated text editor. Either way, there are alternative compilers available for Windows like GCC.

[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;36059756]Microsoft could litterally put a turd in a box and sell it as Windows and people would still buy it because of how ubuqioutious Windows has become through their illegal business practices in the past. [editline]22nd May 2012[/editline] RC. [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/o6BYk.png[/IMG] More space efficient meaning takes up more space. Lol. And all caps.[/QUOTE] Generally speaking better use of vertical space (and bigger icons, targets to hit) without impacting the actual size of the space is more space efficient.

[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;36059756]Microsoft could litterally put a turd in a box and sell it as Windows and people would still buy it because of how ubuqioutious Windows has become through their illegal business practices in the past. More space efficient meaning takes up more space. Lol. And all caps.[/QUOTE] Saying you're biased against microsoft is like saying the sun is a little bit warm :v: Also Microsoft gives the full (not a fucking student edition or any of that BS) professional edition of visual studios to students at basically any school in north america, and possibly elsewhere, so the only way you won't have the professional version is if A) your company uses something else and in that case you're probably more familiar with that anyways or B) you haven't been to a post secondary school and haven't worked in a programming related job. I'm not saying I approve of this decision but honestly this is stuff they're giving out for free so it's a bit silly to complain too much.

[QUOTE=fruxodaily;36062228]I know, I would only have chrome, skype and probably steam as desktop apps, I would only use steam for chatting.[/QUOTE] what makes you think those apps would have an ARM version? unless x86 tablets take off which i won't believe until it actually happens

[QUOTE=Ithon;36060023]Microsoft has gone down hill sence 2001 when they adopted hiring people from India, which worked on vista and hid their errors for cultural reasons. Bugs were fixed and windows 7 got out, but the new method for development for win 8 is insane, this is just one public example. win 9 will fix those problems and win 10 I have no idea. Bill Gates was so right to want the company to split up.[/QUOTE] [citation needed] No, seriously. I'm really curious to see a source behind this.

[QUOTE=Lazor;36063386]what makes you think those apps would have an ARM version? unless x86 tablets take off which i won't believe until it actually happens[/QUOTE] The point of developing for Metro is it's supposed to work on both of them, supposedly - [url=http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012/02/09/building-windows-for-the-arm-processor-architecture.aspx]as long as you use one of the .NET languages I think[/url]. Although I would like to see x86 tablets take off - I'm probably going to get a Fiona if they turn out to be solidly made.

[QUOTE=Zanfall;36062150]Your point is wrong because older versions of Visual Studio will still be available to download long after Visual Studio 11 is out and long after it isn't the newest version anymore. You can still download Visual Studio 2005 directly from Microsoft for fucks sake. If a developer wants to create a desktop application they can either pony up for VS11 Pro or just use VS2010.[/QUOTE] This is a horrible way of looking at it. Why should I have to use an older version of VS? This is pretty inexcusable.

The express versions always sucked compared to pro anyway. If you're in some kind of educational establishment, you can get a free copy of VS Pro. (Several copies, depending on circumstances) If you know someone in some kind of educational establishment, such as an non-programmer friend/cousin/nephew etc, you can use their credentials to get a copy of VS Pro. If you're employed, you probably either have $500 or can save it up within a month or two, during which you can continue to use the existing VS Express that you're currently using. If you don't like any of those options, either a) suck it and make Metro apps or b) use one of the many alternatives available to you, which includes whatever you're currently using, the previous perfectly acceptable version of VS and a large number of third party apps.

[QUOTE=BlkDucky;36063819]This is a horrible way of looking at it. Why should I have to use an older version of VS? This is pretty inexcusable.[/QUOTE] just use another IDE jesus christ it isn't that hard

[QUOTE=BlkDucky;36063819]This is a horrible way of looking at it. Why should I have to use an older version of VS? This is pretty inexcusable.[/QUOTE] Hardly. The older versions of VS are perfectly usable compared to their modern versions. The only difference is a few features here and there, and some plugins no being available. People use older versions of software all the time. I mean, look at you right now, using Vista when 7 is out. If you really cared about up to date software you'd be on 7.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;36064413]Hardly. The older versions of VS are perfectly usable compared to their modern versions. The only difference is a few features here and there, and some plugins no being available. People use older versions of software all the time. I mean, look at you right now, using Vista when 7 is out. If you really cared about up to date software you'd be on 7.[/QUOTE] Windows 7 didn't drop support for anything majorly significant, though. I don't really see this as a valid comparison. Just because an older version of the software is usable and "good enough" doesn't mean I should be essentially forced to use it. Software should (in theory) improve with each version not, drop stuff like the ability to make [I]desktop applications[/I]. That's ridiculous. (Also, I'm only using Vista at the moment because I'm at work, I do use 7.)

[QUOTE=BlkDucky;36064467]Windows 7 didn't drop support for anything majorly significant, though. I don't really see this as a valid comparison. Just because an older version of the software is usable and "good enough" doesn't mean I should be essentially forced to use it. Software should (in theory) improve with each version not, drop stuff like the ability to make [I]desktop applications[/I]. That's ridiculous. [B](Also, I'm only using Vista at the moment because I'm at work, I do use 7.)[/B][/QUOTE] Damn I was hoping it wasn't something like this. Anyway. What's the big deal about not being able to use VS2011? Seriously, if VS08 is capable of doing everything you need for desktop and metro development (which I expect it will), the only reason to update is to be on newer software. Not all companies make new version of their software objectively better. People choose to stay on older versions all the time. This is just going to be one of the times where you're going to have to deal with it. How do MS intend on stopping desktop app development anyway? Seeing as VS takes everything it can do from whatever language you are using, they can't really stop you using it for desktop development.

VS2011 Express only supports C#/VB/Javascript and they don't have bindings to WinForms (or whatever the latest one is called.) VS2011 Pro supports everything VS2010 Pro did.

Whatever, I still use VS2008 anyway.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;36064522]Damn I was hoping it wasn't something like this. Anyway. What's the big deal about not being able to use VS2011? Seriously, if VS08 is capable of doing everything you need for desktop and metro development (which I expect it will), the only reason to update is to be on newer software. Not all companies make new version of their software objectively better. People choose to stay on older versions all the time. This is just going to be one of the times where you're going to have to deal with it. How do MS intend on stopping desktop app development anyway? Seeing as VS takes everything it can do from whatever language you are using, they can't really stop you using it for desktop development.[/QUOTE] It's just a pointless inconvenience. There's absolutely no reason for it except to push the whole Metro thing and to convince people to buy (or pirate) the $499+ paid versions.

[QUOTE=BlkDucky;36064608]It's just a pointless inconvenience. There's absolutely no reason for it except to push the whole Metro thing and to convince people to buy (or pirate) the $499+ paid versions.[/QUOTE] I guess it would be more of an inconvience if they did remove the older versions. It's a pain in the ass not having the most up to date version of something. But it isn't exactly debilitating to you as a developer to have to use an older version for some tasks. Just a bit time consuming. But fuck the pricing is awful. $500+ for Visual Studio is hardly a fair price for a developer who isn't making massive money already and just wants the full IDE>

Meh, I still use VB6. It gets the job done.

I can't be the only one that has no idea what Metro actually is.

I'm finding the setup file for VS 2008 and my XP disk.

So they are rendering the Express edition half useless? I can foresee more VS Pro torrents.