Hamas Refuses to Allow Flotilla Aid into Gaza Strip until captured activists are released - Polidicks

[QUOTE=zombojoe;22341183]I don't get it. Why would Hamas refuse it?[/QUOTE] Because Hamas doesn't care about other Palestinians. If they did they wouldn't be using them as human shields. They are a terrorist group first and foremost, and they are doing everything possible to turn Palestinians against Israel.

[QUOTE=Jund;22351891]Because Hamas doesn't care about other Palestinians. If they did they wouldn't be using them as human shields. They are a terrorist group first and foremost, and they are doing everything possible to turn Palestinians against Israel.[/QUOTE] Rate this guy agrees.

[QUOTE=Jund;22351891]Because Hamas doesn't care about other Palestinians. If they did they wouldn't be using them as human shields. They are a terrorist group first and foremost, and they are doing everything possible to turn Palestinians against Israel.[/QUOTE] Funny you should mention that: [url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4314898.stm[/url] Read the whole article.

[QUOTE=Jugulum;22351794]You know, throwing random videos around doesn't help. There IS an humanitarian crisis in Gaza, pretty much the whole world, except for Israel and the US of course, has acknowledged the fact.[/QUOTE] All while Guatemala starves and lives in absolute poverty. No aid trucks lining up down the street there. Just people starving and trying their best with what they have. No risk of terrorist parties exploiting the aid to make weapons. No Muslim extremists stoning women for learning to read or being raped. But no Israel or middle east involved there so nobody pays attention. Hamas is too busy playing the victim and everyone is too busy eating it up to realize that there are places not run by terrorist psychopaths who we could be sending this aid to. Places that it would help way more people with far less trouble. Places that actually have the potential to eventually support themselves and are recognized nations. Places that actually produce products and grow crops. Places where the only thing holding them back is the lack of a support system showing them how to do things. But no, you go right ahead crying your eyes out over a fucking postage stamp governed by assholes.

Guys, you clearly don't understand. We had no way to avoid the blockade, we've done everything in our power to avoid such a thing, but we had no choice. It was our mission: [img]http://upload.snelhest.org/images/1006037cZje.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=GunFox;22352101]All while Guatemala starves and lives in absolute poverty. No aid trucks lining up down the street there. Just people starving and trying their best with what they have. No risk of terrorist parties exploiting the aid to make weapons. No Muslim extremists stoning women for learning to read or being raped. But no Israel or middle east involved there so nobody pays attention. Hamas is too busy playing the victim and everyone is too busy eating it up to realize that there are places not run by terrorist psychopaths who we could be sending this aid to. Places that it would help way more people with far less trouble. Places that actually have the potential to eventually support themselves and are recognized nations. Places that actually produce products and grow crops. Places where the only thing holding them back is the lack of a support system showing them how to do things. But no, you go right ahead crying your eyes out over a fucking postage stamp governed by assholes.[/QUOTE] Because in Guatemala, human rights are being violated by mother nature, not a country.

[QUOTE=IStanI;22352383]Because in Guatemala, human rights are being violated by mother nature, not a country.[/QUOTE] Hardly. They fought a civil war for their freedom and rights that lasted decades. Guatemala is harsh, but the killer here is multiple generations who have known nothing but conflict and have no way to pick themselves up again. And that is simply one example. South America as a whole is a place capable of supporting itself and is trying to become a part of the world, but has only relatively recently reached some semblance of stability and is pretty much ignored by everyone.

[QUOTE=GunFox;22352101]All while Guatemala starves and lives in absolute poverty. No aid trucks lining up down the street there. Just people starving and trying their best with what they have. No risk of terrorist parties exploiting the aid to make weapons. No Muslim extremists stoning women for learning to read or being raped. But no Israel or middle east involved there so nobody pays attention. Hamas is too busy playing the victim and everyone is too busy eating it up to realize that there are places not run by terrorist psychopaths who we could be sending this aid to. Places that it would help way more people with far less trouble. Places that actually have the potential to eventually support themselves and are recognized nations. Places that actually produce products and grow crops. Places where the only thing holding them back is the lack of a support system showing them how to do things. But no, you go right ahead crying your eyes out over a fucking postage stamp governed by assholes.[/QUOTE] This is strawman extravaganza and does not, in fact, respond to the original statemement, namely that there is a humanitarian crisis in Gaza. The UN has said it, the only people still saying there isn't is Israel and the US. Saying I shouldn't care about some people because there are other groups of people that "deserve my attention more", and that I only support Gaza because I hate Israel is a defence mechanism for many Israeli apologists and is quite frankly sickening. I am not selective in my sympathies. I do not wish death upon Israel, but simply an end to the inhumanity that is enforced on the Gazan population, for everyone to be recognized as equals in Israel and justice for those who has been mistreated in both Israel and palestine. And, finally, for Israel to be treated on the same level as any other country, not given special rules to do what they want without any international repercussions. As it stands, the US is giving them a free pass to do whatever they want, and this has given the Israeli government the powers to set and enforce an inhuman and illegal blockade to starve the Gazans under the guise of stopping arms transfer. If you cannot question the moral standing of this then frankly, I cannot help you. I am not a supporter of Hamas and their tactics, but when you use them as an argument to why the Gazans doesn't deserve help, I can't help but feel sorry for you. Also, your way of saying "Places that actually produce products and grow crops" makes you look like you see the Gazans as worthless, something which I hope wasn't the intention of that statement. For your information, I am also a donor to Doctors without borders, so I'd say that your argument of me only supporting Palestine because I hate Israel falls moot. Frankly, I had expected better from you Gunfox. And now I take my leave for a while. I have been debating this case far too much over the last couple of days, and I am sorry for all the links and shit I've thrown on the Israeli military and governmental institutions, but I've found that to really wake up people they need to actually see what is going on. I did not intend this post to be this long, but when people accuse me of this, it kind of makes my blood boil.

[QUOTE=Jugulum;22352715]This is strawman extravaganza and does not, in fact, respond to the original statemement, namely that there is a humanitarian crisis in Gaza. The UN has said it, the only people still saying there isn't is Israel and the US. Saying I shouldn't care about some people because there are other groups of people that "deserve my attention more", and that I only support Gaza because I hate Israel is a defence mechanism for many Israeli apologists and is quite frankly sickening. I am not selective in my sympathies. I do not wish death upon Israel, but simply an end to the inhumanity that is enforced on the Gazan population, for everyone to be recognized as equals in Israel and justice for those who has been mistreated in both Israel and palestine. And, finally, for Israel to be treated on the same level as any other country, not given special rules to do what they want without any international repercussions. As it stands, the US is giving them a free pass to do whatever they want, and this has given the Israeli government the powers to set and enforce an inhuman and illegal blockade to starve the Gazans under the guise of stopping arms transfer. If you cannot question the moral standing of this then frankly, I cannot help you. I am not a supporter of Hamas and their tactics, but when you use them as an argument to why the Gazans doesn't deserve help, I can't help but feel sorry for you. Also, your way of saying "Places that actually produce products and grow crops" makes you look like you see the Gazans as worthless, something which I hope wasn't the intention of that statement. [/QUOTE] Yes. People elsewhere deserve the aid more. Not because they are worth more as human beings but for several reasons. 1.) The Gaza strip will never produce crops capable of feeding itself. It will probably never provide its own power. It will require aid for the entirety of its existence. They will eventually need to combine with Israel if they ever wish to even remotely function as a country. Failing that combining with Egypt would also work. This doesn't make the Gazans less as people, it's simple geographical fact. There isn't enough space. Other nations do not suffer from the same problem. They have the space and the resources, they just need the help and/or knowledge. Helping the strip right now only serves to prolong this ridiculous situation. Your solution, to lift the blockade, means that the strip will spend the rest of its existence receiving aid. This is assuming they don't immediately import weapons and return to attacking Israel. The aid will eventually stop and the country will suffer economic collapse almost immediately. Combining with Israel is the only way to stop this. 2.) Money is wasted on getting the supplies where they need to go. Money that could be saving more lives for less money elsewhere without having to worry about the supplies getting to the people who need it. 3.) The supplies could be going to countries that aren't ruled by assholes. The people of the strip may be fine, but they are ruled by terrorists. They will never like the west and the supplies only serve to legitimize their position. 4.) It isn't any of your business. This is a problem between Israel and the strip. What? World events affect everyone? Oh sorry I'll remember that next time someone says it in reference to the United States. But no. We should blindly throw money at random hungry people, without consideration for who needs it or how much of an impact the funds will have. Yeah that will get things done. What is your end game here? What is your GOAL in all this? How do you think that things should turn out?

[QUOTE=GunFox;22353217]Yes. People elsewhere deserve the aid more. Not because they are worth more as human beings but for several reasons. 1.) The Gaza strip will never produce crops capable of feeding itself. It will probably never provide its own power. It will require aid for the entirety of its existence. They will eventually need to combine with Israel if they ever wish to even remotely function as a country. Failing that combining with Egypt would also work. This doesn't make the Gazans less as people, it's simple geographical fact. There isn't enough space. Other nations do not suffer from the same problem. They have the space and the resources, they just need the help and/or knowledge. Helping the strip right now only serves to prolong this ridiculous situation. Your solution, to lift the blockade, means that the strip will spend the rest of its existence receiving aid. This is assuming they don't immediately import weapons and return to attacking Israel. The aid will eventually stop and the country will suffer economic collapse almost immediately. Combining with Israel is the only way to stop this. 2.) Money is wasted on getting the supplies where they need to go. Money that could be saving more lives for less money elsewhere without having to worry about the supplies getting to the people who need it. 3.) The supplies could be going to countries that aren't ruled by assholes. The people of the strip may be fine, but they are ruled by terrorists. They will never like the west and the supplies only serve to legitimize their position. 4.) It isn't any of your business. This is a problem between Israel and the strip. What? World events affect everyone? Oh sorry I'll remember that next time someone says it in reference to the United States. But no. We should blindly throw money at random hungry people, without consideration for who needs it or how much of an impact the funds will have. Yeah that will get things done. What is your end game here? What is your GOAL in all this? How do you think that things should turn out?[/QUOTE] You know, it's a shame that this is going to get drowned in boxes, because you raise an excellent point; they're never going to be self-sufficient. It would be in the best interest of the people to join either Egypt or Israel. Naturally, Hamas is opposed to this.

[QUOTE=fskman;22355720]You know, it's a shame that this is going to get drowned in boxes, because you raise an excellent point; they're never going to be self-sufficient. It would be in the best interest of the people to join either Egypt or Israel. Naturally, Hamas is opposed to this.[/QUOTE] Fight for the last bit of your people's land or eradicate yourself through diplomacy. What would you choose?

[QUOTE=DrMonumbo;22356232]Fight for the last bit of your people's land or eradicate yourself through diplomacy. What would you choose?[/QUOTE] Eradicate is a horrible word to use for assimilation.

[QUOTE=DrMonumbo;22356232]Fight for the last bit of your people's land or eradicate yourself through diplomacy. What would you choose?[/QUOTE] I don't know man maybe you should strap a bomb to yourself and show them what's what bro.

[QUOTE=starpluck;22340681]Yup, just another bullshit source, nothing to see here. [URL="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mj-rosenberg/lying-about-the-gaza-flot_b_597953.html"]From the Huffington Post[/URL]: [release] Also, here some interesting statistics from ANERA (As of June 2nd): 8 out of 10 Gazans depend on foreign aid to survive. The World Food Program says [B]Gaza requires a minimum of 400 trucks a day to meet basic nutritional needs[/B] - yet an average of just [highlight][B]171 trucks worth of supplies enters Gaza every week[/B][/highlight][B],[/B] Clothes that were held in the port of Ashdod for over a year were released into Gaza but arrived covered with mold and mildew, unusable. 95% of Gaza's water fails World Health Organization standards leaving thousands of newborns at risk of poisoning. Anemia for children under the age of 5 is estimated at 48%. 75 million liters of untreated sewage are pumped into the Mediterranean Sea every day - because piping and spare parts are not permitted. [/release][/QUOTE] You see, when you occupy a hostile region, you don't take the bestest perfectest care of the people. You're in a war, your goal is to win. A hundred trucks a day is actually pretty generous considering the situation.

There is no war.

[QUOTE=Conscript;22358196]There is no war.[/QUOTE] So shooting, fighting, deaths on both sides, etc., isn't a war? Ok, it's a belligerency, conflict, skirmish, battle, disagreement, quarrel, fight, aggression, etc. etc.. In other words, it's war.

[QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;22358377]So shooting, fighting, deaths on both sides, etc., isn't a war? Ok, it's a belligerency, conflict, skirmish, battle, disagreement, quarrel, fight, aggression, etc. etc.. In other words, it's war.[/QUOTE] The use of collective punishment via depriving a people of basic necessities is as villainous as outright acts of terrorism. Both sides make use of the opposing civilian populace as a weapon.

[QUOTE=OzOMighty;22351754]Now if I didn't put a video in my post would you have something more relevant to say rather than claim your cool.[/QUOTE] My point is that nothing seems relevant anymore because all you hear from both sides is an alternating sequence of "PROOF OF EVIL!" "NO THAT'S BIASED YOU BIGOT, THIS IS EVIL!" "NO, [I][B]YOU'RE [/B][/I]BIASED THIS IS WHAT EVIL LOOKS LIKE!" and so on and so forth.

[QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;22358377]So shooting, fighting, deaths on both sides, etc., isn't a war? Ok, it's a belligerency, conflict, skirmish, battle, disagreement, quarrel, fight, aggression, etc. etc.. In other words, it's war.[/QUOTE] It's a "war" in the same way a cage fighter with a gun versus a little kid is a "fight." [editline]05:02AM[/editline] And the cage fighter is standing on the kid's neck

[QUOTE=Zero-Point;22361481]My point is that nothing seems relevant anymore because all you hear from both sides is an alternating sequence of "PROOF OF EVIL!" "NO THAT'S BIASED YOU BIGOT, THIS IS EVIL!" "NO, [I][B]YOU'RE [/B][/I]BIASED THIS IS WHAT EVIL LOOKS LIKE!" and so on and so forth.[/QUOTE] But both Hamas and the Israelian Government are evil. I worry for the civilians on both sides.

[QUOTE=Re-y-tard;22361574]But both Hamas and the Israelian Government are evil. I worry for the civilians on both sides.[/QUOTE] Damn right.