Watch_Dogs torrent secretly installing a Bitcoin miner on thousands of computers - Polidicks

[QUOTE=mugofdoom;44907255]No one is directly or indirectly harmed because of it? The video game industry is thriving, it's bigger than it's ever been and it's not slowing down any time soon. A few million people not paying for a game, most of whom would have never bought the game in the first place, isn't going to put anyone on the streets. If you can show me an example of someone having to go without because their paycheck was severely docked or non-existant because everyone pirated their game, and it's not just because the game sucked, I might reconsider.[/QUOTE] So because nobody's starving to death because of it it's not bad? If I take 1 dollar from you every month, you probably won't notice it, but it's still a bad thing to do. And that's a comparison that's really generous in terms of how much money developers lose due to piracy.

[QUOTE=.Lain;44903279]i dont remember the last time i pirated a game. buying things and having them work is just so much easier than having to routinely go through shit crack methods and dealing with this kind of shit if i don't think a game is worth buying then i won't play it. simple as piracy is still piracy, regardless of your intentions and or what you think of the product[/QUOTE] I feel like sometimes it would probably be way easier to get a cracked version of a game than to put up with whatever DRM they put in there. I remember getting so frustrated with GFWL games I bought that I just wanted to get a crack and bypass it entirely.

[QUOTE=mugofdoom;44907278]claiming authorship of someone's work is not at all comparable to downloading a copy of Shit Hunter 9000 so you can dick around for a few hours until you forget about it.[/QUOTE] Why do you care? It's not like it's stealing.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;44906792]Most of the time, attempts to justify pirating things are laughable. It's morally wrong, everyone should just admit it. Sure, in the grand scheme of things it's not [i]that[/i] bad, but it's still wrong. The only time it's somewhat justifiable is when someone has absolutely no way to legally acquire whatever it is they're pirating.[/QUOTE] I'm gonna have to agree with this. Stealing is stealing, I think that nobody should make any moral justifications.

[QUOTE=Explosions;44907506]Why do you care? It's not like it's stealing.[/QUOTE] if you deny a sale to a publisher then yeah it kinda is a issue and you are stealing people's work

[QUOTE=Ownederd;44907576]if you deny a sale to a publisher then yeah it kinda is a issue and you are stealing people's work[/QUOTE] He's being sarcastic.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;44903233]Yeah fuck all those people for downloading stuff because they don't feel like paying 40+ bucks for a game that they won't even have a complete version of because of all the preorder bullshit And fuck poor people too[/QUOTE] I won't get a WHITE TRENCHCOAT?!?!?! PIRATING THIS SHIT FUCK UBISOFT HOW CAN MY GAME BE COMPLETE WITHOUT IT???

[QUOTE=Trekintosh;44903246]Because you're poor you should be allowed to [del]steal[/del]try before you buy with no intention of buying?[/QUOTE] To be fair not EVERY pirate is a bullshitter. I downloaded it to see if I could run the game with every intention of buying the digital deluxe version. Turns out, my version of Windows can't even run it. Saved myself 70$ [highlight](User was banned for this post ("You won't banned for warez/leaks unless: •You openly declare or brag about it" - Orkel))[/highlight]

fuuuuuuck i've been mining bitcoins for some asshole

is watch dogs worth buying if i have a $50 best buy gift card?

[QUOTE=meppers;44907677]is watch dogs worth buying if i have a $50 best buy gift card?[/QUOTE] I'd say wait for a sale if you're not inclined to get it now. It's really a love it or hate it kind of deal.

[QUOTE=l337k1ll4;44907459]So because nobody's starving to death because of it it's not bad? If I take 1 dollar from you every month, you probably won't notice it, but it's still a bad thing to do. And that's a comparison that's really generous in terms of how much money developers lose due to piracy.[/QUOTE] How much money do developers lose due to piracy? Does this figure take into account whether that person would have bought the game if they were unable to pirate it? Or did they just take the number of downloads and multiply it by the market value? Factoring in the people that would not have paid for the game in the first place because they can't or the game wasn't worth the price, the amount lost is negligible compared to the amount gained. No harm is being done to anyone in particular, the company still makes a hefty profit for making a good game, and the poor schmucks who can't afford it get to have some entertainment in their lives. If I were a developer making successful, well-made video games, I would not mind giving a dollar a month to let people experience my work who otherwise would not. There is a lot more going on when it comes to piracy than just people taking things.

[QUOTE=rapperkid04;44907613]To be fair not EVERY pirate is a bullshitter. I downloaded it to see if I could run the game with every intention of buying the digital deluxe version. Turns out, my version of Windows can't even run it. Saved myself 70$[/QUOTE] You know the system requirements explicitly state the game doesn't support 32-bit systems, right?

Why not create a thread in the Mass Debate section and rant about pirating there?

[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;44905503]Isn't pirating from Ubisoft like pirating from Satan? It's for the greater good.[/QUOTE] actually, it just makes shit worse because they will make more DRM and fuck us legitimate buyers over even more just get their games on sale or borrow them

[QUOTE=Rika-chan;44907611]I won't get a WHITE TRENCHCOAT?!?!?! PIRATING THIS SHIT FUCK UBISOFT HOW CAN MY GAME BE COMPLETE WITHOUT IT???[/QUOTE] I was actually really annoyed with the new DLC content with a lot of games. I really wanted to play the single player DLC of The Last of Us, but due to my internet being unable to handle large downloads and the fact that I can't pause the download on the PS3 and resume it later (torrents only work because I can download a little at a time), I'm unable to buy it, even though I want to buy it. So I'm forced to watch a Let's Play on Youtube instead of playing the game. I'd never pirate The Last of Us, the game was too excellent to not pay for, but I'd think about it if I could get Left Behind with it solely because the way DLC is distributed makes me unable to enjoy them. [QUOTE=Explosions;44907506]Why do you care? It's not like it's stealing.[/QUOTE] Let me break it down for you, what you're describing is plagiarism, what we're talking about is piracy. I'm not claiming that I created the game I downloaded, I just downloaded it. I get what you're saying and all but you guys need to come up with some better analogies.

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;44907475]I feel like sometimes it would probably be way easier to get a cracked version of a game than to put up with whatever DRM they put in there. I remember getting so frustrated with GFWL games I bought that I just wanted to get a crack and bypass it entirely.[/QUOTE] ubisoft drm isn't anywhere near as bad as GFWL. i bought FC3 retail and it's a seamless experience

The problem is that online piracy doesn't have any useful analogy to go with it because it's a completely unique kind of crime due to the target of "theft" (for lack of a better term) being a completely digital product. Because of this it's incredibly difficult to say exactly why it should or shouldn't be considered a crime, because there's no precedent to base it on.

I listen to a shitload of music. I keep up with hundreds of record labels and I can't really begin to tell you how many current bands. I'm good friends with a number of people in the industry and help promote a lot of bands and do my best to buy physical media. There are unfortunately only so many copies of certain records or tapes out there. I can't even begin to tell you how many times I've been unable to purchase some 200 run 7" only to find some shitlord online boasting about how they have three unopened copies in their collection. Fuckers don't even listen to the music and are actively preventing other people from being able to listen because they want every prime numbered pressing or what have you. Then there are shitheads that don't know dick about the medium and ruin good copies through improper handling/use making things even harder to find. I still don't have a copy of Thee Oh See's Drop. That came out this Record Store Day, and the only remaining copies are in the hands of the band and they won't announce their US tour until November. Then you have other records out there where there aren't any legitimate digital versions at all and that really sucks. Some rare punk and garage rock goes for $1000+ online. Buying records used without the chance to hear them and physically inspect them is awful if you're shelling out a lot of money. There are plenty of horror stories of records getting destroyed in transit too. In those situations I've definitively resorted to alternate means. There are tons of bands out there that are cool with people taping their shows and sharing those tapes. bt.etree.org is a pretty good digital source for those recordings. Maybe those are all shitty justifications, and maybe I should just wait to get my hands on legitimate copies of a lot of things, but sometimes it's really hard to know if or when that might be possible.

[QUOTE=mugofdoom;44907785]How much money do developers lose due to piracy? Does this figure take into account whether that person would have bought the game if they were unable to pirate it? Or did they just take the number of downloads and multiply it by the market value? Factoring in the people that would not have paid for the game in the first place because they can't or the game wasn't worth the price, the amount lost is negligible compared to the amount gained. No harm is being done to anyone in particular, the company still makes a hefty profit for making a good game, and the poor schmucks who can't afford it get to have some entertainment in their lives. If I were a developer making successful, well-made video games, I would not mind giving a dollar a month to let people experience my work who otherwise would not. There is a lot more going on when it comes to piracy than just people taking things.[/QUOTE] Except that if someone was never going to pay for a game, they would never have played it. Just because they won't buy it at full price doesn't mean they wouldn't have otherwise bought it later when the price went down if they didn't pirate it.

you know what? piracy is bad and a dick move but it definitely isn't like stealing a TV it's a dick move, again, and is theft, but is far from theft in the traditional sense. You're getting it free but you aren't really stealing it like you would a physical copy. Theres no way to tell how many people are "Try to buy" or "purist pirates AKA lost sale" or "Already own" or whatever, with theft its' 100% a lost sale, and that is partly why "Piracy is not theft" but only in the traditional sense. this makes it not ok to compare being poor and pirating, and being poor and stealing a physical object. But is being poor an excuse to pirate? maybe, doesn't make it OK to do so however.

I personally think that piracy is wrong in most cases, but there are certain points that make sense. [U][B]Piracy is (questionably) OK when[/B][/U]: - User has already paid for a similar copy and wants it on another device (not for other users to use or for local multiplayer purposes - let your friend/sibling buy their own damn copy) - Game cannot be bought via any other means (aka Region-locking, not "[I]I don't own a credit card[/I]") - Testing if it runs on your machine (and just that) - User is a saint-like entity who will actually go back and buy a legit copy once they finish enjoying a pirated one (I can't imagine this happening often, if ever - why ever pay for what you already own?) [U][B]Piracy is a shitty thing to do when[/B][/U]: - Saying "[I]I'm too poor so that makes it ok[/I]" and then never going back to buy a legit copy when you can actually afford it - Saying "[I]Fuck THAT Dev/Publisher/Game, I'd never pay REAL money for it/to them![/I]" and then playing the entire game anyway - Saying "[I]They aren't losing a physical copy, so it isn't stealing![/I]" or "[I]I'd never buy the game anyway so it isn't a lost sale.[/I]" when you spent 40+ hours playing the product of hundreds of dev manhours, millions of dollars, and all the love, blood, sweat, and tears that went into making said game, for absolutely nothing (The 'hopping the fence of the amusement park' analogy made earlier in this thread was probably one of the better ones I've heard) It's ridiculous to think that piracy is completely ok and doesn't hurt anyone. Sure, a studio might not make that extra few million dollars it would have in a world without piracy, but if it had then everyone would benefit. Any games they produced in future would likely have a much larger budget available, they would be able to afford more highly-skilled staff, and the overall quality of the game would improve. While piracy doesn't technically "hurt" developers, it certainly doesn't reward them for what they provide to the gaming community either.

Everyone bitches about DRM, and yeah, companies that use shitty DRM are shitty, but the reason they're driven to it is because [b]pirates are shitty people too[/b]

[QUOTE=geel9;44908154]Everyone bitches about DRM, and yeah, companies that use shitty DRM are shitty, but the reason they're driven to it is because [B]pirates are shitty people too[/B][/QUOTE] This so much. Just because DRM is stupid and dumb doesn't validate piracy, it just makes you both bad people.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;44903352]GOG only sells old and independent games, so it's not even a good example. When a game is sold 40 Euros (so $55) without a single demo on the horizon and the only word you can take is the one of developers and people who may not even have the same tastes as you, the only way to make your own opinion of the game is to find it some other way. I don't pirate often, I only do it when I'm not certain about the game and when the price exceeds 20 bucks. And even then, I don't play the game entirely, I try it and if I like it I buy it as soon as possible. If the game sucks then I uninstall it and congratulate myself for having saved money on a game that would have been a waste of money. Let me be clear, pirating is a fucking chore nowadays because it's basically faster to straight up purchase and download a game on steam, but when a game is as expensive as 50 dollars I am not willing to pay for it blindfolded or only based on the appreciation of others who may or may not even have the same tastes as me. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("You won't banned for warez/leaks unless: •You openly declare or brag about it" - Orkel))[/highlight][/QUOTE] I find it weird you can't say a thing about warez here but you can talk about possessing illegal drugs as much as you like

[QUOTE=RobbL;44908206]I find it weird you can't say a thing about warez here but you can talk about possessing illegal drugs as much as you like[/QUOTE] I get the feeling the reason is that people (who can sue) will actually make a bigger fuss about an internet forum talking about warez then smoking cocaine

[QUOTE=mugofdoom;44907852]Let me break it down for you, what you're describing is plagiarism, what we're talking about is piracy. I'm not claiming that I created the game I downloaded, I just downloaded it. I get what you're saying and all but you guys need to come up with some better analogies.[/QUOTE] How about this one: I go into a video store (if those even exist anymore) and I copy a bunch of the videos inside. Then I stand outside the store and hand out free copies to people passing by. It's completely fair, right? I didn't steal anything, the video store didn't lose any real money, so there's nothing wrong! [QUOTE=geel9;44908154]Everyone bitches about DRM, and yeah, companies that use shitty DRM are shitty, but the reason they're driven to it is because [B]pirates are shitty people too[/B][/QUOTE] Steam is DRM.

[QUOTE=Egevened;44903674]the major problem with that thesis of yours is that barely any game has the value to give a month of enjoyment to the buyer and usually, at the current market prices, the average person can buy one full price game per month, if not two[/QUOTE] then you dont buy games you dont want and dont pirate games you dont want genius idea

[QUOTE=Explosions;44908336]How about this one: I go into a video store (if those even exist anymore) and I copy a bunch of the videos inside. Then I stand outside the store and hand out free copies to people passing by. It's completely fair, right? I didn't steal anything, the video store didn't lose any real money, so there's nothing wrong! Steam is DRM.[/QUOTE] But it's not shitty DRM???

[QUOTE=Explosions;44908336] Steam is DRM.[/QUOTE] Yes but it a form of DRM that is consumer friendly, and doesn't hamper the user if they want to play a game. If you want, you can even play in an offline mode without the internet and you can still play that game (If it doesn't have it's own form of DRM that is). And, there's things that are good additions to the game such as achievements, trading, and depending on multiplayer even the option of joining up with your friends.