Watch_Dogs torrent secretly installing a Bitcoin miner on thousands of computers - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Daemon;44919014]I never understood the argument of trying before you buy (which is essentially another way of saying, deplete all enjoyment out of the game before your satisfied enough that it doesn't warrant buying it anymore) There isn't one game that i can think of that my [i]friend[/i] bought after torrenting it, without being isolated out of some feature. This isn't the 1990's where we lack the insight to determine how good a game is without buying it first. Multiplayer titles are almost exempt from 'lost sales' when being pirated because no one has access to that side of the game. That effectively creates it's value worth being spent on. I can't say anything else works.[/QUOTE] To be fair, bookstores let you read pages from a book before you buy them. Movie studios put up trailers for new movies. Record stores usually have a listening station for new releases and so forth. More developers ought to release demos of their games. It wouldn't solve the problem completely for game piracy, but it would help some.

"You wouldn't download a car would you?" [editline]26th May 2014[/editline] The pirating issue is a really slippery slope, though to make it akin to stealing is a ridiculous accusation. [QUOTE=Technopath;44916717]What's dumb here is that people don't understand the difference between lost profits (stealing) and never making profit that wasn't going to be made in the first place (pirating). When somebody pirates, to put it simply there's only two possible outcomes: 1. They pirate because that's what they do and they never intended to buy the game in the first place (profit isn't made by the company because this person wasn't going to buy the game for whatever reason even if there wasn't piracy, aka the person is poor, is a cheap ass, etc). So either way, this person wasn't going to give them money, it's different from stealing, where the company actually loses something. 2. They pirate because they want to try it, don't have money right now, etc but they always end up buying it, this gives money to the company and is in my view, fine. I've done it a few times, but I always end up buying it if I play for more than 30 minutes. I know most of you don't believe this happens, but there are still honest people who want to see if the game is worth buying and watching a lets play doesn't give the same experience as a hands-on try. That being the case, the company can only win from piracy, because they never lose sales on people who weren't going to buy the game anyways, at most they gain sales by having those few who tried the pirated version and bought it anyways.[/QUOTE] This guy gets it, the company gains nor loses anything when someone pirates something. I don't get why you guys get so butt-frustrated when someone pirates. You've done it with music, you've probably done it with software, and now it's an issue on a games forums after all these years? I'm fairly certain at least 95% of people on Facepunch has pirated something before, but now it's suddenly an issue that needs to be addressed because some shit-lords decided to exploit the cheapskates, tough luck for them then, but now you're dragging in other people too? Talk with your wallets, choose who you support with it, but what is there to lose for others if it never existed?

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;44917554]No it's not. Because it's luxury entertainment. I can't save up for food. Food is a weekly expense. Know what I can save up for? A video game. There's no excuse to say "oh ill pirate it now, then pay later". If you're so impatient that you have to play a game RIGHT NOW then your priorities are skewed beyond belief. [/QUOTE] Thanks for ignoring my entire post and just strawmanning me you presumptuous cock. I said that [B]GAMES SHOULD NOT BE FREE OR PIRATED. BUT GAMES ARE PROHIBITIVELY PRICED AND THUS I CAN UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE PIRATE THINGS, AND WHY YOU SHOULD AT LEAST //UNDERSTAND\\ WHY PEOPLE PIRATE INSTEAD OF SLATING THEM ALL AS IMPATIENT CHILDREN.[/B] That clear enough?

Look at these saintly fucking angels "if you can't afford it just don't play games then???" Get a grip, do you HONESTLY think they are just going to completely not play games when the option exists to get it for completely free with no consequences?

oh fuck the irony

I find it funny how this thread has pretty much been an argument on piracy and has been going on for 13 pages. Got to hand it to Facepunch to discuss the true things wrong with the world today.

[QUOTE=Samiam22;44921585]I find it funny how this thread has pretty much been an argument on piracy and has been going on for 13 pages. Got to hand it to Facepunch to discuss the true things wrong with the world today.[/QUOTE] Oh look it's one of those "1st world problems" posts

[QUOTE=Trekintosh;44903246]Because you're poor you should be allowed to [del]steal[/del]try before you buy with no intention of buying?[/QUOTE] Yes? And even regardless of that. If you seriously think that the Watchdogs devs deserve all the purchases people give them, then allow me to laugh. [editline]27th May 2014[/editline] Whoa wait what, 13 pages?!

[QUOTE=Bat-shit;44921868]Yes? And even regardless of that. If you seriously think that the Watchdogs devs deserve all the purchases people give them, then allow me to laugh.[/QUOTE] Yes, they do. personally i dont give a shit whether people pirate or not but to say that hundreds of people that put thousands of man hours into a product dont deserve money is the stupidest shit that could ever come out of someone's mouth

[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;44917035]The root of the problem is you're taking something for free. In other words: stealing.[/QUOTE] Nah, I actually buy my stuff. So I'm not the root of any problem, but I don't have a problem with people who pirate either. Either way, I've had this discussion with you in another thread before and you still don't get it. I'm done. By the way, never watch a movie at a friends house or play a game at their house either, or listen to their music, etc, that would be stealing because you didn't buy them yourself yet you're getting the experience for free.

new games cost around $100 in new zealand, i think cod4 will still probably be around $50 - $60? If i can afford it, ill buy it but id have to see if its worth it or not first

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;44922558] [B]60$ is a tiny amount compared to the "entry fee" of gaming, and if you weren't so busy having your head crammed up your ass, you'd understand that. If 60$ is THAT MUCH, if you literally can't afford it, then why not wait till it goes on sale? Or why not pick it up used at the local games shop? That is, unless you ARE an impatient child. [/B][/QUOTE] Again, you ignore me, so let me paint this out for you: Me not fan of pirate games. Me no pirate. Me understand game cost lot of rock. Me understand why people not want spend rock and pirate game. Me not proponent. Me not agree. But me understand. Me kill many tiger. [quote] [b]You keep saying "oh a lot of people try it before they buy it". Yet you've posted no statistical evidence of that actually happening. A lot of anecdotal evidence. But no statistical evidence, probably because there isn't any; [/b]and there probably never will be any that's accurate.People pirate because its free, because they aren't going to get caught unless they make a fucking idiotic mistake. [/quote] [I][B]I never said that. I said I CAN UNDERSTAND why people might pirate things. I don't agree with it. Read my fucking username, take fucking stock of my avatar, and see that I am not that poster. I. Did. Not. Say. That. Ever.[/B][/I] [quote] Get off your pathetic high horse you ignorant child. [b]Video games aren't a right, they aren't some thing that we're all entitled to; they are a piece of luxury entertainment, designed by companies to make a profit,[/b][/quote] I never said they were a right. I said I can understand. I'm going to repeat this until you get it. [quote]they don't have to "understand" why people don't buy the games, because, as you said earlier, they weren't going to buy them anyway. So why drop the price at all? Why is "oh god they're prohibitively expensive" a thing?[/quote] Who the fuck do you think you're talking to? I never said that people aren't going to buy it. I never said any of this shit. You have literally created some boogeyman image of me as someone who approves of pirating and says that people should pirate shit because fukk damaan. I said that video games are prohibitively priced, so that I can understand (but not agree) why some people pirate shit. I didn't say either side was a good or evil thing, just that I can understand both sides. God, take a fucking hint. [quote] No I understand. If you could read you'd see that I understand. But you cant; so i'll lay it out in such a way that even your 4 year old mind can understand. They do it for the same reason people hop the fence at amusement parks and sneak into movie theaters. Because why bother paying if you can get it for free, right? Because, those aren't technically stealing. And you weren't going to buy a ticket anyway, so what's the deal, why is it wrong? Because, why bother doing the right thing, when you can easily get away with doing the wrong thing? [/quote] Get out of your fucking echochamber and [B]READ WHAT I AM SAYING AND WHAT I HAVE ACTUALLY SAID RATHER THAN YOUR ILLUSORY VERSION OF WHAT I'VE SAID AND WHAT YOU'RE ARGUING AGAINST BECAUSE [U]YOU ARE JUST FIGHTING A SHADOW THAT YOU HAVE CONCOCTED. I DID NOT SAY THAT PIRATING IS OKAY. I DID NOT SAY THAT TRY BEFORE YOU BUY IS ACCEPTABLE. I SAID THAT [I]I UNDERSTAND[/I] PIRACY AND I CAN AT LEAST HAVE SOME SORT OF EMPATHY FOR PIRATES WHILE ALSO DISAPPROVING OF THEIR ACTIONS.[/U][/B] [editline]27th May 2014[/editline] Here's direct quotes of my posts in this thread, so you can understand that you're just lying: [QUOTE=Drsalvador;44915539] [quote]Having gone through the whole thread, are there really people who condone pirating just because games are 'expensive'? $40-$60 isn't fucking expensive.[/quote] Yes it is. $60 is a lot of money. [quote] Not sure if you can run it? Check recommended requirements. [/quote] Not always accurate. often glaringly wrong. [quote] Not sure if you'll like it or not? Plenty of gameplays on YouTube. [/quote] Shut up. Seriously, shut up. Video games are an [B]experience medium.[/B] It's the [B]experience.[/B] You don't get the same thing with watching a game as you do physically interacting and experiencing. You don't get the same feedback at all.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Drsalvador;44921339]Thanks for ignoring my entire post and just strawmanning me you presumptuous cock. I said that [B]GAMES SHOULD NOT BE FREE OR PIRATED. BUT GAMES ARE PROHIBITIVELY PRICED AND THUS I CAN UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE PIRATE THINGS, AND WHY YOU SHOULD AT LEAST //UNDERSTAND\\ WHY PEOPLE PIRATE INSTEAD OF SLATING THEM ALL AS IMPATIENT CHILDREN.[/B] That clear enough?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Drsalvador;44912206]Shut up already, jesus. I don't even entirely disagree with [B]some[/B] of your points, but your defense is so fucking piss-poor and you're such an impudent arsehole about it that you're actively doing nothing but getting yourself (and pirates) an even worse name. You're doing nothing but spraying projectile shit over everyone and everything around you by being so absolutely anally devastated and trying so hard to defend this topic.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Drsalvador;44917352]Your entire fucking argument is beaten by yourself, sir. I'm not saying that games should be free or stolen, I'm saying that games are prohibitively priced considering that the mediums for playing games are also a $300+ investment ontop of that. If [B]$60 is half of your [I]food[/I] budget[/B], then surely that's fucking [B]insane[/B] for a singular game?[/QUOTE] [B]Stop. Making. Shit. Up.[/B] [highlight](User was banned for this post ("you need to calm down" - Orkel))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;44922558]No I understand. If you could read you'd see that I understand. But you cant; so i'll lay it out in such a way that even your 4 year old mind can understand. They do it for the same reason people hop the fence at amusement parks and sneak into movie theaters. Because why bother paying if you can get it for free, right? Because, those aren't technically stealing. And you weren't going to buy a ticket anyway, so what's the deal, why is it wrong? Because, why bother doing the right thing, when you can easily get away with doing the wrong thing? You keep saying "oh a lot of people try it before they buy it". Yet you've posted no statistical evidence of that actually happening. A lot of anecdotal evidence. But no statistical evidence, probably because there isn't any; and there probably never will be any that's accurate.People pirate because its free, because they aren't going to get caught unless they make a fucking idiotic mistake. Get off your pathetic high horse you ignorant child. Video games aren't a right, they aren't some thing that we're all entitled to; they are a piece of luxury entertainment, designed by companies to make a profit, they don't have to "understand" why people don't buy the games, because, as you said earlier, they weren't going to buy them anyway. So why drop the price at all? Why is "oh god they're prohibitively expensive" a thing? [B]60$ is a tiny amount compared to the "entry fee" of gaming, and if you weren't so busy having your head crammed up your ass, you'd understand that. If 60$ is THAT MUCH, if you literally can't afford it, then why not wait till it goes on sale? Or why not pick it up used at the local games shop? That is, unless you ARE an impatient child. [/B][/QUOTE] [I]"ignorant child" "4 year old" "unless you ARE an impatient child"[/I] Why do people think saying these things will help their argument in the slighest? It merely detracts from it. I don't think there is much you can say after Drsalvadors last post; you really are trying to take a comment he didn't explicitly say: IE "oh a lot of people try it before they buy it"; and blow it out of proportion to help your fuel your argument I also don't see why you are getting so pissed about this; video games seem to matter much more to you. Please read this article where the goat simulator devs talk about having their game be in the top 10 on thepiratebay [url]http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/134379-Goat-Simulator-Hits-Number-Two-On-The-Pirate-Bays-Top-Ten-List[/url] [quote=SOURCE] [B]Coffee Stain Studios says the runaway piracy of Goat Simulator is a "hilarious" achievement that may actually be good for the game in the long run.[/B] The number-one title on The Pirate Bay's list of most popular video game torrents is Minecraft; number two, ahead of Dark Souls II, Call of Duty: Ghosts, Bound By Flame and everything else floating around out there, is Goat Simulator. And that's okay with Coffee Stain boss and programmer Anton Westbergh, who described the situation as "really hilarious." "I think it's kind of an achievement," he told PCGamesN. "My first reaction was 'Hooray! We're top on Pirate Bay. From the launch up till last week we've been in the top. I don't know how many copies that is but [it's a] heck of a lot of copies definitely."[/quote]

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;44922882]Some random asshole on the internet. You can empathize with people all you want. Just like i'll keep going on NOT empathizing with the people who want to go and enjoy expensive things for free.[/QUOTE] Empathy is not the same as sympathy. Empathy = understanding and connection with people's emotions or actions without a personal connection to it. It's [B]understanding.[/B] not [B]emoting.[/B] Sympathy = [b]emotional[/b] connection and understanding with someone's emotions or actions. It's [B]emoting[/B] not [b]understanding.[/B] Take an English class sometime. Preferably off the end of a short pier.

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;44922898] Cool story, how about you read into what I was saying, then you do the same. [b]Your definition is pretty fucking shitty as well. Empathy is the capacity to understand that people are experiencing emotions.[/b] I completely understand that they have these emotions, i'm just stumped as to why the internet suddenly made things in their head ok with not compensating others for their work. [/quote] That's exactly what I said. But you're still acting like I'm some sort of pirate sympathizer who says it's okay to try before you buy, smuggling the prejudiced pirates out through the underground bayroad. [quote] Why is this such a big deal to you? Did mummy and daddy not love you and now you're flaming people on the internet to make up for it?[/QUOTE] I'm not the one who's flaming here. I'm not the one who screamed out of the woodwork all piss and vinegar making up shit to accuse someone with and start calling them an impatient child over. Also [quote][b]Did mummy and daddy not love you[/b][/QUOTE] Projecting, much? Where did that come from

It certainly seems like a freudian projection, and an incredibly scummy and feeble attempt at a low blow.

I'm not the one trying to make cheap shots at people's personal lives, actually. You were the one who started the fire, and now that the fire rises around your feet you can't take it and project it straight back onto the other person. Come on, you're a big guy.

I say this game isn't even worth pirating.

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;44923083]Its not half bad yet. Im about an hour in and can say that its "meh" so far. Im not having a stupidly high amount of fun (like with the new wolfenstien) but im also not "not" enjoying it.[/QUOTE] any random events or stuff that stands out?

[QUOTE=Raidyr;44914928]Releasing a demo would go a long way to cutting down piracy. I know it can be difficult to carve out chunks of your game to give to consumers but it doesn't even have to be that long. A big reason a lot of people pirate games isn't because they are the entitled manchildren this thread makes them out to be, it's because they want to see if the game runs as well as they would like and if it plays anything like the marketing shows it off as, both of which are a rarity these days. The rest of the people who pirate games just because they don't feel like buying it but still plan on playing to completion are going to copy it anyway so you might as well try to coax some sales out of the people who might be interested in it but also feel the need to be a smart consumer.[/QUOTE] Releasing a demo would go a long way to cutting down justifications for piracy* Actually people would then say "the demos are just marketing and not representative of the actual game" as their new phony excuse.

[QUOTE=Explosions;44923188]Releasing a demo would go a long way to cutting down justifications for piracy* Actually people would then say "the demos are just marketing and not representative of the actual game" as their new phony excuse.[/QUOTE] I hardly think wanting to see if the game actually works in this era of chronically underdeveloped games is a phony excuse. People just want to see if the product works and piracy is their only way to do that. Can you really blame them in this era of PC releases, with games like Colonial Marines, Battlefield 4, CoD Ghosts, and even Watch Dogs itself? If you are going to take the hardliner point of view that everyone who downloads copies of games are just doing it because it's a free way to finish a game they want then we might as well not talk about piracy at all and just shrug our shoulders saying "Well it is how it is". I'd actually like to solve the problem of piracy (by which I mean greatly lower it, since people will be copying and distributing media until the end of human civilization) and while a big part of that is down to consumers to support the industry they clearly love, there needs to be some feedback from developers and publishers too.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;44925074]I hardly think wanting to see if the game actually works in this era of chronically underdeveloped games is a phony excuse. People just want to see if the product works and [b]piracy is their only way to do that[/b]. Can you really blame them in this era of PC releases, with games like Colonial Marines, Battlefield 4, CoD Ghosts, and even Watch Dogs itself? If you are going to take the hardliner point of view that everyone who downloads copies of games are just doing it because it's a free way to finish a game they want then we might as well not talk about piracy at all and just shrug our shoulders saying "Well it is how it is". I'd actually like to solve the problem of piracy (by which I mean greatly lower it, since people will be copying and distributing media until the end of human civilization) and while a big part of that is down to consumers to support the industry they clearly love, there needs to be some feedback from developers and publishers too.[/QUOTE] That's entirely untrue.

[QUOTE=Nemisis116;44921439]Get a grip, do you HONESTLY think they are just going to completely not play games when the option exists to get it for completely free with no consequences?[/QUOTE] Of course not, and that's why it's a problem. Because do you HONESTLY think that all of those people are then going to buy the game with their hard-earned money out of the kindness of their hearts once they've saved it up, when they already have the game for free and will suffer absolutely no consequences if they keep playing it without paying, and can instead put that money towards something else? If money is that tight, why would they pay for it if they can choose not to? What about the guy who wants the latest AAA title now and doesn't want to wait for a sale, so he pirates it? What are the chances that he'll buy it when it drops to $10, when he's already finished and uninstalled it? Or if he does buy it later, why does the company only deserve ten bucks for a game that he just [I]had[/I] to play on release day and could have easily paid full price for, but chose not to? Or how about the guy who pirates to see how a game is, beats it, decides it was [I]okay[/I] and never pays for it, telling himself that it wouldn't be worth the full price? Do developers only deserve money if their game is the next GOTY? You have to have an [I]extremely[/I] optimistic view of human nature to think that the overwhelming majority of people who pirate fit this binary idea where they either would have never paid for it or will certainly buy it later, and aren't simply pirating because they can and it saves them fifty bucks. There are cases where piracy does not result in a lost sale, but there are plenty of cases where it does, or at best a budget-price sale, and that is the sole reason why companies invest millions of dollars in capital in ever more draconian DRM schemes. [QUOTE=Drsalvador;44921339]BUT GAMES ARE PROHIBITIVELY PRICED[/QUOTE] Come on, people regularly spend $10+ on tickets for two-hour movies, or $30+ for a two hour meal at a restaurant. $50 for a game that'll provide at least ten hours of entertainment and possibly far more is a great deal as far as luxury items go. Even if that full price is too expensive for you, the great thing about games is that they drop in price predictably and quite quickly, so if $50 or $60 is too much you can easily get them for $20 or $30 if you wait a little while or buy used. If $50 is too much but you need it [I]now[/I], then sorry, your own impatience is not a justification for taking something without paying. You have lots of reasonable options here.

As a break from the argument, here's Garry's response to installing Watch Dogs: [img]http://puu.sh/93RtF/4758d935f7.png[/img]

[QUOTE=catbarf;44925718] If $50 is too much but you need it [I]now[/I], then sorry, your own impatience is not a justification for taking something without paying. You have lots of reasonable options here.[/QUOTE] Small but important semantic detail: You aren't "taking" something when you pirate a game, you are downloading a copy of it. I'd also argue that your endorsement of buying games used sends the wrong message because the used game market does far more damage than online piracy, to the point where publishers have pushed against it even harder. Otherwise I agree with your post in general. Pirating games because you can't wait for a sale or just because you feel entitled to a free game is wrong. [editline]27th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=catbarf;44925718]the sole reason why companies invest millions of dollars in capital in ever more draconian DRM schemes.[/QUOTE] And how. People who had the game pre-ordered and pre-loaded still can't play at the moment because uplay keeps going down. An obstacle which clearly isn't inhibiting pirates.

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;44913015]So if you can BARELY afford video games perhaps someone shouldn't be purchasing them in the first place? That doesn't make it OK to acquire them from illegal means either, video games are a luxury item. Not a necessity.[/QUOTE] It's not really fair to suggest that someone doesn't deserve luxury items for the crime of being born in Lithuania. If video games started costing several hundred dollars in the United States you'd probably pirate them as well.

Now that I think of it, why do people even buy games? One guy could buy the game, upload it and the billions of other people could just torrent?

[QUOTE=john552;44948035]One guy could buy the game, upload it and the billions of other people could just torrent?[/QUOTE] psst people already do that

[QUOTE=Quark:;44948047]psst people already do that[/QUOTE] psst people still buy games though