Watch_Dogs torrent secretly installing a Bitcoin miner on thousands of computers - Polidicks

The Reloaded Crew has something at the start of their installers roughly saying "If you enjoy the product, support the developer." Enjoy the Product, Buy the Game.

[QUOTE=SenhorCreeper;44904572][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/MVTrk1V.png[/IMG][/QUOTE] running it at 60 fps at 1080p ultra on a 780 ti, can deny.

[QUOTE=Amic;44904934]The thing is, you don't take shit in person. You don't take a car and someone else now misses it. You don't go to a store and steal the money in the cash. The original copy is still there, and with physical theft, well it isn't.[/QUOTE] Okay so you circumvented the LEGAL means to purchase a product, which the income from those LEGAL means goes back to fund the creators. It's their creation, why should you be entitled to a free copy? How is that not comparable to theft?

[QUOTE=Coyoteze;44904916]You're basically saying "People should always pay for a game if they're uncertain if they'll like it or not". It's rude, and flat out stupid.[/QUOTE] No, yeah, simplifying someone's argument like this is totally awesome. You should do it more. It really cuts out all the core parts of the argument. I'm not saying "buy all the games fucklords, you'll hate them but buy them anyway". I'm saying "make an educated guess, does it look like something you'd enjoy? Have others you trust said it's enjoyable?", you may prefer to play a game to get a feel of the gameplay, but that can be conveyed by a decent reviewer (most lets plays are not decent reviews really, especially when they're big name Youtube stars like you posted). Pirating even to try the game does nothing good for the industry, they can't tell who pirated to try and who pirated to own. So they assume the worst (as any decent business does when analysing risk). This now means more weird DRM for legitimate customers, more DLC to try and remove as much risk from the core game being pirated, more Steam-like stores and so forth. The developer and publisher will assume a vast majority of piracy numbers as lost sales, as it's near impossible to tell otherwise.

[QUOTE=SenhorCreeper;44904572][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/MVTrk1V.png[/IMG][/QUOTE] and there goes my Preorder. Cheers for this, i'll wait until its discounted. Im not having another unoptimised shitstorm ive got to crawl through .inis for. No Really, im not. Im tired of buying for shit before hand without any idea of its going to be optimised. Im not paying my money to play Watch Dogs at 20 FPS. I'd much rather wait until its patched up. Ive already heard too much shit about this game.

[QUOTE=KennyAwsum;44904948]The Reloaded Crew has something at the start of their installers roughly saying "If you enjoy the product, support the developer." Enjoy the Product, Buy the Game.[/QUOTE] Yep, you can even go to TPB and it'll be in all their uploads in the description (which usually is the readme copied over)

[QUOTE=Amic;44904934]The thing is, you don't take shit in person. You don't take a car and someone else now misses it. You don't go to a store and steal the money in the cash. The original copy is still there, and with physical theft, well it isn't.[/QUOTE] You're still using/ enjoying someone else's work without paying your dues. This ties in more with my last post where publishers have to assume the worst. It's still a form of theft, there's a reason we imposed laws about digital rights early on in the life of the Internet. [editline]25th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Jackald;44904941]I can't even play Far Cry 3 because UPlay apparently says my CD key is registered to someone else's account. A nice £40 wasted that pirates don't have to deal with.[/QUOTE] Talk to their support. Show and receipts you have (Steam provides them if you used Steam), hope you saved it!)

It's pretty funny how so many of you guys are trying to make a excuse for pirating with the reason that you are "poor" and can't afford to save up to buy the game. Even though you somehow can afford a computer that can play a next gen game. Just be honest that you are doing something unmoral and illegal instead of trying to sugar coat it all the time or make lame excuses. I'm not against piracy but I hate it when others start spouting bullshit.

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;44904861]There's the entitlement thing again. It's their product and it's well within their rights to do whatever they want with it. Also, I don't think the main driving force behind piracy is "MUH DEMOS" as much as it is "I don't want to pay the money for this product so I'll just steal it instead".[/QUOTE] They are certainly within their right to do what they want, but if they want to make a good profit they need to treat their customers with some respect, in the case of a physical object most people would not buy it but this is very difficult to apply to digital media since there is practically no risk involved in piracy despite the real losses incurred. Piracy is something you need to learn to live with if you want to sell [b]any[/b] product these days, it goes on far more than most people realise, in fact your computer is very likely to contain one if not a dozen components cloned by some company in Asia, the real designer is losing money on this but like digital piracy very little can be done about it, a company can adapt by offering a better service or better quality, doing nothing is not an option. [QUOTE=InvaderNouga;44904964]How is that not comparable to theft?[/QUOTE] Most reasonable people will admit to that, but that doesn't really change anything, people steal stuff all the time if the opportunity is given. Hell if I see £5 on the floor I'm having it.

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;44904964]Okay so you circumvented the LEGAL means to purchase a product, which the income from those LEGAL means goes back to fund the creators. It's their creation, why should you be entitled to a free copy? How is that not comparable to theft?[/QUOTE] Where did i state that i am entitled? I say that comparing it to physical theft is fucking STUPID. I don't go to a store, and take a cd which MATERIALS cost over 1k dollars and take it for free do i? You are so up your ass you can't really see anything but "BUT PIRACY IS BAD ITS LIKE STEALING A CAR". EDIT: I'll again say, i don't say piracy is morally right, or that anyone should do it.

You've also got to keep in mind that a large basis of people pirating on stuff like The Pirate Bay are a fraction of the sales. If a game does really well on the higher lists of The Pirate Bay, its probably selling really well because those are potential customers. So if its a good quality game, the chances are that you'll get customers out of that because they enjoyed it so much they saw a reason to spend money into it.

Too bad the game is god awful and poorly optimized

[QUOTE=Coyoteze;44903376]Company X announces Game Y Player Z thinks Game Y looks cool, but is unconvinced. Company X releases Game Y, but with no publicly available demo. [B]FOUR OUTCOMES:[/B] Player Z buys the game, and thinks it's bad. 50$ wasted. Player Z buys the game, and thinks it's good. 50$ well spent. Player Z pirates the game, and tries it. Thinks it's good. Buys it. 50$ well spent. Player Z pirates the game, and tries it. Thinks it's bad. Doesn't buy it. 50$ saved. Mind you the keyword here is TRY. As in, downloading and playing for a short while, just enough to get a good impression of the game and if it would be worth the money. This is why the good ol' shareware (aka demo) era of gaming was great, because fucking every game out there had a shareware version that you could try before getting the full thing. [editline]oh[/editline] Oh, you edited this in after I posted. Sorry <3[/QUOTE] You are pretty naive if you honestly think that most pirates are you going to buy what the gotten for free whether if they liked it or not.

[QUOTE=Bruhmis;44903300]stealing physical goods causes the company to lose money. choosing not to buy a game doesn't. there's a big difference. we're also talking about a company that has released unplayable port after unplayable port for neigh on a decade, and gone on to claim that PC isn't a relevant platform because statistically 90% of its users only play pirated games. they were too dumb and too lazy to make decent PC products then got mad when nobody bought them and tried to fuck over the PC community by discouraging other developers from making PC products. please give me one reason why anybody should give a single dollar to a company which is by all accounts the scum of the gaming industry[/QUOTE] I'm not saying it's stealing, I'm just saying it has the same reason behind it. Just because you can't be arsed to pay for it, does not mean you can take it.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;44904967]I'm saying "make an educated guess, does it look like something you'd enjoy? Have others you trust said it's enjoyable?"[/QUOTE] Buying ANYTHING based on an "educated guess" is economically retarded. If you can't see that, I'm not going to bother arguing with you.

[QUOTE=Coyoteze;44905043]Buying ANYTHING based on an "educated guess" is economically retarded. If you can't see that, I'm not going to bother arguing with you.[/QUOTE] Maybe you shouldn't be purchasing video games then if you feel that way.

[QUOTE=Coyoteze;44905043]Buying ANYTHING based on an "educated guess" is economically retarded. If you can't see that, I'm not going to bother arguing with you.[/QUOTE] It's fucking luxury entertainment, if you aren't willing to risk your money that much then just don't buy videogames. Holy shit. Educated guesses are what we use to decide if tons of things are worth buying, again, why are video games different?

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;44905018]Piracy is like hopping the fence at an amusement park. Sure you get to enjoy the product, but you're not helping to reimburse the people who made the park for you.[/QUOTE] Except that some pirates DO reimburse it, buying a ticket afterwards. Because, unlike many people like to think, pirates DO buy the game (if they like it/the price lowers during a sale/whatever). Not all of them, but a part do.

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;44905101]Until you buy the ticket though you're still enjoying the product without reimbursing them though.[/QUOTE] ...At the end of the day, a kid had a fun day on the amusement park and the owner got a ticket sold.

Lmao As if most people who pirate games actually pay for them afterwards. Get real guys.

[QUOTE=Toyhobo;44903370]But rather than stealing a physical object from them you still steal potential money from the creators. Also there has to be a original prototype to every car, I'll just steal those that aren't the prototype, they're just copies of that car after all. See? same fucking logic. It doesn't work that way.[/QUOTE] You cannot steal "potential money", it doesn't exist. If I pirated game Y with no intention of purchasing it ever have I stolen "potential money"? No, the sale never existed and the company that sells it would not have lost anything from me pirating it. The only argument to stealing "potential money" is if I then went and sold that pirated copy at a market or something to people who might have been considering purchasing it. (For the record: I think anyone who does sell pirated anything are terrible people, and I enjoy reading news stories that involve people being caught for it)

[QUOTE=Doom64hunter;44905132]Lmao As if most people who pirate games actually pay for them afterwards. Get real guys.[/QUOTE] Hey Look. A Assumption! Still though, i doubt most will but there is still money coming out from it. That is always a positive.

[QUOTE=Jsm;44905150]You cannot steal "potential money", it doesn't exist. If I pirated game Y with no intention of purchasing it ever have I stolen "potential money"? No, the sale never existed and the company that sells it would not have lost anything from me pirating it. The only argument to stealing "potential money" is if I then went and sold that pirated copy at a market or something to people who might have been considering purchasing it. (For the record: I think anyone who does sell pirated anything are terrible people, and I enjoy reading news stories that involve people being caught for it)[/QUOTE] Okay so if everybody pirated games instead of buying them since it's "technically not stealing money" does that company still not lose anything?

[QUOTE=Kanye East;44904993]It's pretty funny how so many of you guys are trying to make a excuse for pirating with the reason that you are "poor" and can't afford to save up to buy the game. Even though you somehow can afford a computer that can play a next gen game. Just be honest that you are doing something unmoral and illegal instead of trying to sugar coat it all the time or make lame excuses. I'm not against piracy but I hate it when others start spouting bullshit.[/QUOTE] Well some people in this thread make 300€ per month. I can't really blame them for not spending 60€ on a single game.

[QUOTE=Doom64hunter;44905132]Lmao As if most people who pirate games actually pay for them afterwards. Get real guys.[/QUOTE] I have, not all of them but I've certainly bough many games I've pirated in the past that I've enjoyed, you seem to think pirates are nasty evil people who simply do it because they can, this is often not the case. [QUOTE=InvaderNouga;44905175]Okay so if everybody pirated games instead of buying them since it's "technically not stealing money" does that company still not lose anything?[/QUOTE] It very much depends on a case by case basis, some people would never buy a product if they couldn't pirate it, that doesn't make it right but it still ends up as no loss for the company. If anything you could consider it a small gain since they provide free advertising.

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;44905175]Okay so if everybody pirated games instead of buying them since it's "technically not stealing money" does that company still not lose anything?[/QUOTE] No, they wouldn't lose a dollar.

Don't shit on me for this idea but why can't games (on steam) have like a certain window for returns like 1 hour after download is complete? It's like when you buy an app on google play then it downloads and you open it then you're like "shit this isn't what I expected I'm going to return it " in my case for some apps I go back to the google play store and click on refund. Plus only the good stuff would sell good :)

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;44905175]Okay so if everybody pirated games instead of buying them since it's "technically not stealing money" does that company still not lose anything?[/QUOTE] If those people had no intention of ever buying the game, then no the company doesn't lose anything. They were doomed to fail in that situation. But if people were going to buy it and decided to pirate it then the company has lost a potential sale, not some fixed amount of "potential money" that some people like to claim. I hate the argument of people losing "money" through piracy, like if someone pirates a $40 game that developer hasn't lost $40. [editline]25th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=apierce1289;44905212]Don't shit on me for this idea but why can't games (on steam) have like a certain window for returns like 1 hour after download is complete? It's like when you buy an app on google play then it downloads and you open it then you're like "shit this isn't what I expected I'm going to return it " in my case for some apps I go back to the google play store and click on refund. Plus only the good stuff would sell good :)[/QUOTE] I keep wondering why Steam etc doesn't have this option. Honestly I think it comes down to one simple thing: publishers don't want people to be return some of the shit they are selling. It cannot be a technical reason, steam (and others I guess) are more than capable of removing games from peoples accounts (ask anyone who has had a refund processed).

[QUOTE=hexpunK;44905070]It's fucking [B]luxury entertainment[/B][/QUOTE] Haha, no it isn't. [QUOTE=hexpunK;44905070]Educated guesses are what we use to decide if tons of things are worth buying, again, why are video games different?[/QUOTE] I dunno about you but when I buy things I try them beforehand. I can't think of a store that doesn't let you try out any kind of technology without letting you test it first. Headphones, cellphones, tablets, computers/consoles (and with those there's usually a game on screen to test), keyboards, mice, joysticks, cameras. Doesn't even have to be technology actually. Bookstores let you look at and inside of books to get a picture of what it's about, or try out pens and paper if you're buying that. Bags and clothing is available for you to test in changing rooms and such. The only exception I can think of would be food products, but generally a loaf of bread you've never tasted doesn't cost [I]55 dollars.[/I]

[QUOTE=KennyAwsum;44904970]and there goes my Preorder. Cheers for this, i'll wait until its discounted. Im not having another unoptimised shitstorm ive got to crawl through .inis for. No Really, im not. Im tired of buying for shit before hand without any idea of its going to be optimised. Im not paying my money to play Watch Dogs at 20 FPS. I'd much rather wait until its patched up. Ive already heard too much shit about this game.[/QUOTE] The same guy posted this table: [IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BobX5VYCMAAFZNU.png:large[/IMG]