Trump says he will bring down the price of wall on Mexico's border
53 replies, posted
So how about he brings down the price of healthcare and education without the quality of it taking a further hit?
You know, something productive.
[QUOTE=Chonch;51818042]What is your alternative?[/QUOTE]
First step could be making it easier for people who really wanted to go the legitimate route to take it without arbitrary limitations/quotas and YEARS worth of red tape?
[QUOTE=Chonch;51818042]What is your alternative?[/QUOTE]
How about instead of vilifying and isolating Mexico and its inhabitants, as if they're a force of job-stealing savages that have no remnant of humanity, by building a goddamn, useless fucking wall, we instead make it a much more streamlined and justifiable process in allowing Mexicans to become citizens? That way, they're not "illegal" anymore, are properly vetted, and won't take them a fucking avalanche of paperwork and years in order to become a US citizen.
And, and, how about instead of threatening to stop trade with Mexico and repeal NAFTA rather than fix it, we actually try to continue making Mexico a better place to live in, so its citizens won't have to desperately run over our borders in order to find a good life for themselves and their families, and ultimately continue to have a strong trading partner next to our borders in the same vein as Canada?
There's so many easier, more efficient ways to deal with the situation of Mexico, than to build a useless wall that only exists to push out people who actually want to live here, for the reason of ???????
[QUOTE=Chonch;51818042]What is your alternative?[/QUOTE]
Recognize that the drug war your country started decades ago caused the situation today and you are doubling down on it hoping it plays out for you. It won't.
The alternative is supporting Mexico as much as possible in these contexts. The border wall won't even provide the security you suggest or want so it's just not clear why you're in support of it
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51818261]Recognize that the drug war your country started decades ago caused the situation today and you are doubling down on it hoping it plays out for you. It won't.
The alternative is supporting Mexico as much as possible in these contexts. The border wall won't even provide the security you suggest or want so it's just not clear why you're in support of it[/QUOTE]
It really is disgusting that we've done almost nothing to help Mexico with it's problems other than sell it's (horribly corrupt) military and police force more weapons.
[QUOTE=Cructo;51818280]yeah but it's not really the US government's responsibility to fix shit in other countries[/QUOTE]
I'd agree if the US didn't have a habit of sticking its dick wherever it wants. Either way, helping Mexico will help the US in the long run.
[QUOTE=Cructo;51818280]yeah but it's not really the US government's responsibility to fix shit in other countries[/QUOTE]
Irrelevant. You can look at it purely from a selfish, logical perspective. You're spending money either way, but one of those gets results.
You can spend no money (which isn't what they're planning) or you can spend money in an effective way. Anything else isn't a matter of humanitarianism or responsibility, it's a waste.
[QUOTE=Cructo;51818280]yeah but it's not really the US government's responsibility to fix shit in other countries[/QUOTE]
Not that you have any interest in actually listening to anything anyone says, but
You do actually when you're complaining about problems from said country that you in turn, have essentially caused through years and years of foreign policy that is now coming back to bite you in the ass. The way to fix this is to help and to repair, not to isolate and point fingers.
[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;51812453]He'll make it cheaper by not paying the builders like he's done before[/QUOTE]
He'll go on and on about how beautiful his wall is, but tell the contractors they did a shoddy job
[QUOTE=Cructo;51818280]yeah but it's not really the US government's responsibility to fix shit in other countries[/QUOTE]
Consider why people would be desperate to immigrate from Mexico to the US.
It's because the US will offer them a safer life and better opportunity than what they have in Mexico.
So we could either try and bring Mexico up to the point where people feel like they've got safety and opportunity living there...
...or we bring the US so far down that nobody would want to come here.
[QUOTE=Cructo;51818280]yeah but it's not really the US government's responsibility to fix shit in other countries[/QUOTE]
How about cases where actions by the US government greatly influenced shit hitting the fan?
[QUOTE=Cructo;51818280]yeah but it's not really the US government's responsibility to fix shit in other countries[/QUOTE]
It's not our responsibility but it would help.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51818261]Recognize that the drug war your country started decades ago caused the situation today and you are doubling down on it hoping it plays out for you. It won't.
The alternative is supporting Mexico as much as possible in these contexts. The border wall won't even provide the security you suggest or want so it's just not clear why you're in support of it[/QUOTE]
Surely Mexico doesn't want people illegally leaving the country, especially considering how many of them end up being decent middle-class folks. What's stopping us from having the "wall" while simultaneously building up the Mexican people?
I've heard recently that there's a patriotic movement much like ours building up in Mexico, with people valuing products that are made in Mexico like we do products made in the USA. This is occurring just because of the [I]suggestion[/I] of a wall. If the Mexican people continue on down this path, what's to say they won't be able to build their own country up?
[QUOTE=Chonch;51818908]Surely Mexico doesn't want people illegally leaving the country, especially considering how many of them end up being decent middle-class folks. What's stopping us from having the "wall" while simultaneously building up the Mexican people?
I've heard recently that there's a patriotic movement much like ours building up in Mexico, with people valuing products that are made in Mexico like we do products made in the USA. This is occurring just because of the [I]suggestion[/I] of a wall. If the Mexican people continue on down this path, what's to say they won't be able to build their own country up?[/QUOTE]
Are you ignorant of the cartels and their influence and power? You would seem to be so with such a reply.
The wall won't do anything, so you will be taxed a never ending amount to sustain said wall, and the wall will not be effective as that is not the way most illegal immigrants enter the nation so, you will be paying forever, for something stupid and ineffective.
Trump wants to damage the nation of Mexico, he's made that clear with many of his statements and most importantly the actions he's seemingly ready to take to get his way in regards to said wall, making trade partners like the US and Mexico be opposed as you're suggesting will be beneficial is hardly likely to be that way.
Would any level of criticism deflate your faith in the wall or at least allow you to question it publicly?
you know I very much so doubt that they could possibly patrol every section of the Trump Wall and I'm pretty certain that if I was a some patriotic dude from Mexico I'd get a few friends and some sledgehammers and go to town when border patrol aint looking. That thing will basically be a middle finger pointed at most of Central America and a joke for the rest of the world
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51818954]Are you ignorant of the cartels and their influence and power? You would seem to be so with such a reply.
The wall won't do anything, so you will be taxed a never ending amount to sustain said wall, and the wall will not be effective as that is not the way most illegal immigrants enter the nation so, you will be paying forever, for something stupid and ineffective.
Trump wants to damage the nation of Mexico, he's made that clear with many of his statements and most importantly the actions he's seemingly ready to take to get his way in regards to said wall, making trade partners like the US and Mexico be opposed as you're suggesting will be beneficial is hardly likely to be that way.
Would any level of criticism deflate your faith in the wall or at least allow you to question it publicly?[/QUOTE]
I have my doubts about a physical wall in the sense it's been advertised--it's both fiscally and logistically irresponsible given the resources we have today. However, I've resigned myself to the fact that the wall will happen regardless of what I think, so I'm choosing to think positively about how it might be done, or better ways to build it than throwing up some concrete slabs. I know we have some stunning surveillance technology--drones, for example--that we could employ to monitor the border around the clock. This, plus a wall, combined with the more stringent immigration policy that is sure to come soon should at least put a dent in the issue, if not make illegal immigration from Mexico more or less untenable.
You seem to have this preconceived notion that the wall isn't going to work. How do you know this?
Because the problem it's supposed to address it can't and I've repeated this ad nauseum to you.
Most illegals don't cross the land border.
Drug prices will soar, the cartel benefits. The cartel isn't going to be harmed by this so that's also garbage.
What does it do? What goals can it actually meet in practicable actionable terms?
Monitoring the border is essentially meaningless if you can't patrol all of it at the same time. Surveillance only works if you have people who can immediately respond before the suspects can get enough distance to negate the benefit of surveillance. Most of the border is extremely remote wilderness, and it wouldn't take much for a coyote to dig a hole a mile from the border to hide illegals in before border patrol could possible arrive.
[QUOTE=Chonch;51819286]I have my doubts about a physical wall in the sense it's been advertised--it's both fiscally and logistically irresponsible given the resources we have today. However, I've resigned myself to the fact that the wall will happen regardless of what I think, so I'm choosing to think positively about how it might be done, or better ways to build it than throwing up some concrete slabs. I know we have some stunning surveillance technology--drones, for example--that we could employ to monitor the border around the clock. This, plus a wall, combined with the more stringent immigration policy that is sure to come soon should at least put a dent in the issue, if not make illegal immigration from Mexico more or less untenable.
You seem to have this preconceived notion that the wall isn't going to work. How do you know this?[/QUOTE]
Obama and Bush both tried a mostly non-physical "virtual" wall and it was abandoned when it ran horrifically over budget and the fact that the number of people illegally attempting to cross was at it's lowest in years. You can try and be as "positive" as you want but that doesn't change the fact that the wall literally does not address the issue it's claiming to solve and people have pointed this out repeatedly.
[QUOTE=Chonch;51819286]
You seem to have this preconceived notion that the wall isn't going to work. How do you know this?[/QUOTE]
There's optimism and then there's blind faith. This wall would only serve as a feel good measure for the uninformed who thinks this would actually solve anything when in the end it's only going to make things worse.
[QUOTE=Chonch;51819286]I have my doubts about a physical wall in the sense it's been advertised--it's both fiscally and logistically irresponsible given the resources we have today. However, [b]I've resigned myself to the fact that the wall will happen regardless of what I think, so I'm choosing to think positively[/B] about how it might be done, or better ways to build it than throwing up some concrete slabs.[/QUOTE]
You can't pretend you have a realistic view if you disregard negatives and only consider positives. This post makes it sound like your undefeatable optimism is a coping mechanism in face of stress rather than genuine support. There are no reasons to stop criticizing bad decisions even if they seem inevitable.
[QUOTE=Cructo;51818280]yeah but it's not really the US government's responsibility to fix shit in other countries[/QUOTE]
Why do you always argue about responsibility before anyone brings it up?
I don't get it. Are you trying to be snarky or is it because you legit don't understand anything but [I]one[/I] pro-immigration position?
I think the US helping Mexico would be incredibly beneficial to both countries, but this is out of a sense of pragmatism, not because I think America has some sort of moral obligation
edit: I'm not just trying to be a dick, I'm genuinely trying to get this through to you
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