• New York Man Owes $1,800 After Hospital Denied ObamaCare Plan
    48 replies, posted
[quote]Donald Webb, a disabled Oswego County, NY man, had his ObamaCare insurance denied by a local hospital and was hit with a bill totaling nearly $1,800 according to a a report from Syracuse, NY CBS affiliate WTVH on Monday..[/quote] I don't know how reputable this source is, but it was on local news. [url]http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2014/03/11/New-York-Man-Owes-1800-After-Hospital-Refuses-to-Accept-ObamaCare-Plan[/url] Video [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSOyiGt443Q[/media]
[QUOTE=Medevila;44213349]Are you going to make a thread for everyone who drowned under unmanageable medical debt while uninsured too[/QUOTE] He was insured though?
How is the fact that the affordable care act is functioning relevant to this? The insurance is still run by the same companies and has better coverage in terms of what conditions it will provide for. Meanwhile insurance plans have always frequently had restrictions on where you can seek medical help. The hospital doesn't have an issue with the aca, they just only accept excellus for aca plans. Meanwhile that old guy doesn't owe shit. They told him he was covered and they will lose badly in a civil court if he decides to press the issue.
Only $1,800? What was the 'treatment', giving him a bottle of Advil?
[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;44214173]Only $1,800? What was the 'treatment', giving him a bottle of Advil?[/QUOTE] With how the prices are, wouldnt surprise me. Took my mom to the ER a while ago, the room alone was $1,200+ for about one hour of being there
[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;44214173]Only $1,800? What was the 'treatment', giving him a bottle of Advil?[/QUOTE] My friend in Florida had to pay $3000 for a ambulance ride to the hospital when he got meat stuck in his throat
[QUOTE=deggemannen;44214338]My friend in Florida had to pay $3000 for a ambulance ride to the hospital when he got meat stuck in his throat[/QUOTE] ambulance rides in canada aren't covered but holy shit they are not that expensive.
why is everything in the medical industry so expensive for you guys. I broke my fucking arm (below my wrist) in Itally during my winter sport vacation last week. Doc took 6 xrays, did a quick medical check, gave me painkillers and gave me a cast. I only paid 800 eur AND I'm getting most of it back from my insurance. Seriously how can shit be so expensive for you guys
[QUOTE=Johnny Guitar;44214383]ambulance rides in canada aren't covered but holy shit they are not that expensive.[/QUOTE] It's called "extortion" [editline]12th March 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Mega1mpact;44214387]why is everything so exensive for you guys. I broke my fucking arm (below my wrist) in itally during winter sport last week. Doc took 6 xrays, did a quick medical check, gave me painkillers and gave me a cast. I only paid 800 eur AND I'm getting most of it back from my insurance. Seriously how can shit be so expensive for you guys[/QUOTE] Extortion
[QUOTE=Helix Snake;44214389] Extortion[/QUOTE] It's like calling a plumber that does not tell you his rates but you really need him. Then he hands you a 3000 dollar bill for something he did in a couple of hours.
Obamacare does not have contracts with every single hospital out there. If the hospital was not contracted with Obamacare then it is entirely possible that they would have denied him.
[QUOTE=Mega1mpact;44214387]why is everything in the medical industry so expensive for you guys. I broke my fucking arm (below my wrist) in Itally during my winter sport vacation last week. Doc took 6 xrays, did a quick medical check, gave me painkillers and gave me a cast. I only paid 800 eur AND I'm getting most of it back from my insurance. Seriously how can shit be so expensive for you guys[/QUOTE] I thought medcare in Europe was free, how does it work if you aren't a citizen of the country you are in but you are an EU citizen.
[QUOTE=Mega1mpact;44214415]It's like calling a plumber that does not tell you his rates but you really need him. Then he hands you a 3000 dollar bill for something he did in a couple of hours.[/QUOTE] it's like taking the public bus because your car broke down but it turns out the bus is a two-floor luxury movie star trailer and they charge you $3000 to get a few city blocks down the street despite you presenting your prepaid bus pass
[QUOTE=Johnny Guitar;44214449]I thought medcare in Europe was free, how does it work if you aren't a citizen of the country you are in but you are an EU citizen.[/QUOTE] It depends on the country and even then not everything is covered. For example a doctors visit is free and so is most medication. Treatments etc cost money that is often covered by a 3rd party insurer that you pay once a month (I pay 89 eur a month). It's complicated but it works.
[QUOTE=Johnny Guitar;44214449]I thought medcare in Europe was free, how does it work if you aren't a citizen of the country you are in but you are an EU citizen.[/QUOTE] Varies by country, a visiting EU citizen (if they have a european health insurance card) gets the same benefits as a normal citizen of that country.
[QUOTE=Johnny Guitar;44214383]ambulance rides in canada aren't covered but holy shit they are not that expensive.[/QUOTE] They aren't that expensive BECAUSE they aren't covered. Hospitals charge what they do with the full knowledge that the people using the services aren't the ones paying the bill. Look at medical services not usually covered by insurance and you can see how they have dropped in price massively as technology has become better. Some clear examples are things like lasik eye surgery, plastic surgery, etc.
Wait a second. So you get medical insurance, but hospitals pick and choose what insurance they accept, and insurance can limit the places where they'll cover you? So, they've basically taken a system that was designed to be a free and competitive market, and then raped it. Good job, America.
[QUOTE=Mega1mpact;44214415]It's like calling a plumber that does not tell you his rates but you really need him. Then he hands you a 3000 dollar bill for something he did in a couple of hours.[/QUOTE] It's not at all like this because people actually pay for their plumbers. You can't compare things that don't both contain the most fundamental problem. [editline]12th March 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=nikomo;44214511]Wait a second. So you get medical insurance, but hospitals pick and choose what insurance they accept, and insurance can limit the places where they'll cover you? So, they've basically taken a system that was designed to be a free and competitive market, and then raped it. Good job, America.[/QUOTE] An insurance company will say, for example, that they are willing to pay $500 for X procedure. They do this for literally every drug and procedure available. The hospitals look at this list of payments and decide whether they are willing to accept them. Many times they insurance companies don't pay nearly what you see as the listed cost because the acceptable payment has already been established in the contract.
What we need is a law that says that you can't charge someone more than you'd charge an insurance company. But that will never happen because it will cut in on hospitals and insurance company's massive profits.
[QUOTE=Helix Snake;44214552]What we need is a law that says that you can't charge someone more than you'd charge an insurance company. But that will never happen because it will cut in on hospitals and insurance company's massive profits.[/QUOTE] Insurance companies are essentially bulk buyers of healthcare. Saying that an individual can't be charged more than an insurance company would be like saying individual shoppers at stores can't be charged more than people who buy in bulk. The problem here started when government put wage controls during WWII. Instead of directly giving more money companies started giving health benefits. This led to people not paying for their own insurance and become lax on what was actually being paid. "Employer-sponsored health insurance plans dramatically expanded as a direct result of wage controls imposed by the federal government during [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II"]World War II[/URL].[SUP][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_insurance_in_the_United_States#cite_note-NBER-19"][19][/URL][/SUP] The labor market was [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_tightness"]tight[/URL] because of the increased demand for goods and decreased supply of workers during the war. Federally imposed wage and price controls prohibited manufacturers and other employers from raising wages enough to attract workers. When the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Labor_Board"]War Labor Board[/URL] declared that [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fringe_benefits"]fringe benefits[/URL], such as sick leave and health insurance, did not count as wages for the purpose of wage controls, employers responded with significantly increased offers of fringe benefits, especially health care coverage, to attract workers." ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_insurance_in_the_United_States#The_rise_of_employer-sponsored_coverage[/url])
[QUOTE=sgman91;44214571]Insurance companies are essentially bulk buyers of healthcare. Saying that an individual can't be charged more than an insurance company would be like saying individual shoppers at stores can't be charged more than people who buy in bulk.[/QUOTE] Except no, it isn't, because first of all health care is a service, and secondly the reason bulk items cost less is because you're buying a whole bunch at once, while insurance companies only pay when the service is presented, which is the same time the person themselves would pay. So that analogy doesn't work at all.
[QUOTE=Helix Snake;44214593]Except no, it isn't, because first of all health care is a service, and secondly the reason bulk items cost less is because you're buying a whole bunch at once, while insurance companies only pay when the service is presented, which is the same time the person themselves would pay. So that analogy doesn't work at all.[/QUOTE] Insurance companies represent millions of customers. By making a contract with an insurance company you are essentially making a contract with those million customers. So instead of bartering on each individual cost you are ensuring a set cost for everyone. It is very much analogous. Services can also be bought in bulk.
[QUOTE=nikomo;44214511]Wait a second. So you get medical insurance, but hospitals pick and choose what insurance they accept, and insurance can limit the places where they'll cover you? So, they've basically taken a system that was designed to be a free and competitive market, and then raped it. Good job, America.[/QUOTE] Insurance companies pick and choose what treatments they cover. But you are usually informed of this when you pick your insurance. I had to have a pectus excavatum surgery on my ribcage when I was 12 because my deformed ribcage was affecting my ability to breath and lift objects and my parents had to battle for it to be covered because under my parents plan the surgery was considered cosmetic.
[QUOTE=Mega1mpact;44214387]why is everything in the medical industry so expensive for you guys. I broke my fucking arm (below my wrist) in Itally during my winter sport vacation last week. Doc took 6 xrays, did a quick medical check, gave me painkillers and gave me a cast. I only paid 800 eur AND I'm getting most of it back from my insurance. Seriously how can shit be so expensive for you guys[/QUOTE] One of the flaws of the free market, it just doesn't work well for certain industries, medical being the worst. The people they're selling stuff too have a pretty good incentive to pay top dollar, they don't like being dead. Also I'm fairly certain you can't even reject treatment for certain things.
[QUOTE=FordLord;44214247]With how the prices are, wouldnt surprise me. Took my mom to the ER a while ago, the room alone was $1,200+ for about one hour of being there[/QUOTE] My uncle had an open heart surgery just last week, for free, not even a penny. [editline]12th March 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Johnny Guitar;44214383]ambulance rides in canada aren't covered but holy shit they are not that expensive.[/QUOTE] They are 50 bucks flat (ground or air). And that's just there to prevent people from calling an ambulance for non emergencies.
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;44214688]One of the flaws of the free market, it just doesn't work well for certain industries, medical being the worst. The people they're selling stuff too have a pretty good incentive to pay top dollar, they don't like being dead. Also I'm fairly certain you can't even reject treatment for certain things.[/QUOTE] What free market? The health industry in the US is the most regulated and controlled industry in the nation. The entire nature of the industry exists in it's present form because of government action (one being the wage controls that created employer provided healthcare).
[QUOTE=aydin690;44214698]My uncle had an open heart surgery just last week, for free, not even a penny. [editline]12th March 2014[/editline] They are 50 bucks flat (ground or air). And that's just there to prevent people from calling an ambulance for non emergencies.[/QUOTE] If you're in a poor family, you can get a significant amount (or all) of your dental fees covered as well.
I was just reminded of this guy- [quote][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqLdFFKvhH4[/media][/quote] starts the facts at 0:35
[QUOTE=Angus725;44214734]If you're in a poor family, you can get a significant amount (or all) of your dental fees covered as well.[/QUOTE] Unfortunately, i'm not in a poor family so i still get shafted by the dentist.
[QUOTE=dai;44214815]I was just reminded of this guy- starts the facts at 0:35[/QUOTE] Interesting that the only actual ideas about fixing the problem are tort reform and making the market more competitive through price comparison tools.
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