[QUOTE=TonyP;38434488]Oh please enlighten us all about the difference between abandoning and throwing out an old unwanted car and an unwanted building other than the obvious fact you can't physically toss a building away. Calling a building "abandoned" implies the owners disposed of it and it's just not owned by anybody.[/QUOTE]
Firstly, most sensible people tend to [b]sell[/b] their cars rather than just abandon them. I have yet to meet a person who has just left their vehicle in a field because they didn't want it. Even if it wasn't working any more, you could get some money from scrapping it.
But, as I previously pointed out (and you completely ignored) an abandoned and unwanted car can be seized by authorities when it has been left on public land. Leave it on your land, and no one can touch it.
[QUOTE=TonyP;38434488]Would you get mad if somebody came and took the old dining room chairs you put on the sidewalk because you don't want them anymore?
"how dare you take my garbage that I threw out.. that was my garbage!"[/QUOTE]
See above regarding public land.
Squatter laws seem like a really dumb idea to me usually but I guess if you notify the authorities beforehand and the owner either doesn't object or can't be found, then why not?
I've just heard of a few cases where people go on long vacations, and return to find their house taken over and fucked up by squatters, leaving them homeless.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38427051][url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-20296958[/url]
How stupid do you have to be to try and sell a house you are squatting in?[/QUOTE]
If you're smart, you can.
A few times people have managed to sell mansions ofr millions doing the same type of thing but not squatting.
-hmm, nevermind.-
Doesn't the U.K. have "squatter's right" laws? I remember a story a few years back where a gypsy family moved into a guy's house (the guy was some sort of real estate guy and he owned tons of properties everywhere) and claimed it as their own. They changed the locks and started using the items, clothes, and furniture. The guy was unable to do anything for a few months because the law said he needed to give them a few months notice before eviction.
[QUOTE=King Tiger;38447842]Doesn't the U.K. have "squatter's right" laws? I remember a story a few years back where a gypsy family moved into a guy's house (the guy was some sort of real estate guy and he owned tons of properties everywhere) and claimed it as their own. They changed the locks and started using the items, clothes, and furniture. The guy was unable to do anything for a few months because the law said he needed to give them a few months notice before eviction.[/QUOTE]
What bullshit. It's one thing to use a building to live in but to go ahead and change the locks and have to be allowed eviction notice? That's just full on fucking theft.
[QUOTE=prooboo;38427364]Some places have laws that say if you occupy an abandoned home for a certain amount of time, then you own it. Obviously this squatter was not acquainted with the channels that one regularly goes through to get legal ownership and believed that the building was abandoned, leading to his conclusion that he owned it.[/QUOTE]
I think that's dumb. If I'm a billionaire and I buy 6 mansions some loser shouldn't be able to take over one of them if I'm not using the place.
Same thing goes for your average joe and his cottage place.
[editline]14th November 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=JJ Webby;38449022]What bullshit. It's one thing to use a building to live in but to go ahead and change the locks and have to be allowed eviction notice? That's just full on fucking theft.[/QUOTE]
You have to understand that people in the U.K are strange and have strange laws. Their government treat the citizens like children from what I've heard.
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;38449109]I think that's dumb. If I'm a billionaire and I buy 6 mansions some loser shouldn't be able to take over one of them if I'm not using the place.[/QUOTE]
It serves the interests of the community if a billionaire leaves his mansion abandoned for 12 years and doesn't use it for anything.
Also what the fuck do you need 6 mansions for?
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;38449109]You have to understand that people in the U.K are strange and have strange laws.[/QUOTE]
Like?
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;38449109]Their government treat the citizens like children from what I've heard.[/QUOTE]
Source?
[QUOTE=Lazor;38434457];_; my precious property rights[/QUOTE]
Well yeah, if I buy it then why the fuck shouldn't I have rights to something I bought?
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;38449890]Well yeah, if I buy it then why the fuck shouldn't I have rights to something I bought?[/QUOTE]
Property rights aren't absolute. In Vermont, there are actually cases in which you are legally allowed to trespass somebodies property.
The interests of the rest of the community actually have to be considered too.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38449745]
Also what the fuck do you need 6 mansions for?
[/QUOTE]
Whatever the hell you want to have them for? People often have vacation homes and the like.
[editline]14th November 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38449984]Property rights aren't absolute. In Vermont, there are actually cases in which you are legally allowed to trespass somebodies property.
The interests of the rest of the community actually have to be considered too.[/QUOTE]
Theres a pretty sizable difference between being able to legally trespass through someones yard and being able to break in and take the place over.
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;38450055]Whatever the hell you want to have them for? People often have vacation homes and the like.[/QUOTE]
6 mansions isn't a wise use of resources, especially when only one of them is occupied at once.
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;38450055]Theres a pretty sizable difference between being able to legally trespass through someones yard and being able to break in and take the place over.[/QUOTE]
You can only take it over if the following criteria applies:
1. You occupy the land for 12 years (continuously).
2. The owner/heir/etc [b]DOES NOT OBJECT, CANNOT BE FOUND, OR IS DEAD.[/b]
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38450134]6 mansions isn't a wise use of resources, especially when only one of them is occupied at once.
[/quote]
Buying a tank and driving it around in your backyard isnt a wise use of resources either, but people do that too. Whats your point?
[quote]
You can only take it over if the following criteria applies:
1. You occupy the land for 12 years (continuously).
2. The owner/heir/etc [b]DOES NOT OBJECT, CANNOT BE FOUND, OR IS DEAD.[/b][/QUOTE]
No, thats when you LEGALLY take it over
You REALLY take it over the moment you break in (which shouldn't be legal in the first place, occupied or not) and start living there.
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;38450233]Buying a tank and driving it around in your backyard isnt a wise use of resources either, but people do that too. Whats your point?[/QUOTE]
Because when you have an issue like a housing shortage, and some fucks got 5 empty mansions, why is that fair?
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;38450233]No, thats when you LEGALLY take it over
You REALLY take it over the moment you break in (which shouldn't be legal in the first place, occupied or not) and start living there.[/QUOTE]
Except you have a whole 12 years to notify the police and tell the people to leave.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38450301]Because when you have an issue like a housing shortage, and some fucks got 5 empty mansions, why is that fair? [/quote]
If the housing shortage was due to a lack of land or resources, I could see your point. But someone having 6 mansions in country (since mansions arent[I] usually [/I]in the city) isnt causing any resource stress for homeless people in the city.
[quote]
Except you have a whole 12 years to notify the police and tell the people to leave.[/QUOTE]
And I seem to recall several threads specifically detailing the fact that it takes months to get them out, even if you notify the police. Not to mention the fact that they have probably trashed your house.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38449745]It serves the interests of the community if a billionaire leaves his mansion abandoned for 12 years and doesn't use it for anything.[/QUOTE]
So you are basically saying fundamental rights should be sacrificed in favour of 'the greater good'? That doesn't sound like something you would support, Sobotnik.
Should we also favour the death penalty so the public doesn't have to pay out on looking after prisoners? Because what you are saying follows a similar pattern of public interest having priority over human rights.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38449745]Also what the fuck do you need 6 mansions for?[/QUOTE]
That matters not a jot.
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;38450355]If the housing shortage was due to a lack of land or resources, I could see your point. But someone having 6 mansions in country (since mansions arent[I] usually [/I]in the city) isnt causing any resource stress for homeless people in the city.[/QUOTE]
There's loads of abandoned houses in cities though (certainly in England).
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;38450355]And I seem to recall several threads specifically detailing the fact that it takes months to get them out, even if you notify the police. Not to mention the fact that they have probably trashed your house.[/QUOTE]
Except they still don't become legal owners of your property.
So you broke into a house and decided to live there illegally for some time? Enjoy your new free house.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38450595]
Except they still don't become legal owners of your property.[/QUOTE]
They are in YOUR house without YOUR permission, potentially damaging your stuff, and meanwhile you cant live there until the police get involved, which apparently takes some time.
The legal distinction is going to be of zero comfort to you when you have been forced out of your home due to some ridiculous law that allows people to legally break in and squat there in the first place.
[QUOTE=David29;38450578]So you are basically saying fundamental rights should be sacrificed in favour of 'the greater good'? That doesn't sound like something you would support, Sobotnik.[/QUOTE]
Taxes infringes on my rights but they still get paid.
[QUOTE=David29;38450578]Should we also favour the death penalty so the public doesn't have to pay out on looking after prisoners? Because what you are saying follows a similar pattern of public interest having priority over human rights.[/QUOTE]
I can take the time to point out every flaw here, but in summary what I just quoted is retarded.
[QUOTE=David29;38450578]That matters not a jot.[/QUOTE]
Yes it does, what the fuck are you going to do with 5 mansions you don't even use?
[editline]14th November 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;38450656]They are in YOUR house without YOUR permission, potentially damaging your stuff, and meanwhile you cant live there until the police get involved, which apparently takes some time.
The legal distinction is going to be of zero comfort to you when you have been forced out of your home due to some ridiculous law that allows people to legally break in and squat there in the first place.[/QUOTE]
The law that allows you to become a legal owner of a property after occupying it for 12 years is unrelated to this however.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38450696]Taxes infringes on my rights but they still get paid.[/QUOTE]
"Protection of the right to own and enjoy property is found in the criminal offence of theft, by intellectual property laws and by the principle that there can be no taxation except that which is authorised by Parliament."
So, yeah... No.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38450696]I can take the time to point out every flaw here, but in summary what I just quoted is retarded.[/QUOTE]
"I can't counter this so I will just dismiss it as retarded."
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38450696]Yes it does, what the fuck are you going to do with 5 mansions you don't even use?[/QUOTE]
That is of no consequence. What a person chooses to do or not do with stuff they own is up to them.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38449745]It serves the interests of the community if a billionaire leaves his mansion abandoned for 12 years and doesn't use it for anything.
Also what the fuck do you need 6 mansions for?
Like?
Source?[/QUOTE]
I know two people who moved from the UK 2 months ago. That's what they told me.
And who wouldn't want to have 6 mansions if you're a billionaire? You cant even spend all your fucking money so why not.
[editline]14th November 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38449984]
The interests of the rest of the community actually have to be considered too.[/QUOTE]
The community doesn't own your property and they can't tell you what to do with your own land. This isn't soviet Russia, and that's why I hate by laws.
[QUOTE=David29;38450766]"Protection of the right to own and enjoy property is found in the criminal offence of theft, by intellectual property laws and by the principle that there can be no taxation except that which is authorised by Parliament."
So, yeah... No.[/QUOTE]
Except the law that allows you to claim land after 12 years is also authorized by parliament.
[QUOTE=David29;38450766]"I can't counter this so I will just dismiss it as retarded."[/QUOTE]
That's because it literally is.
[QUOTE=David29;38450766]That is of no consequence. What a person chooses to do or not do with stuff they own is up to them.[/QUOTE]
Except it's not very economically wise to have 5 mansions sitting doing nothing.
At least have it be grazing land for sheep.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38450929]
Except it's not very economically wise to have 5 mansions sitting doing nothing.
At least have it be grazing land for sheep.[/QUOTE]
Do you even understand inflation
[QUOTE=David29;38433433]Maybe that the owner paid out a lot of money for the property and thus can do whatever the hell they want with it.[/QUOTE]
But if they're just leaving it dormant, wouldn't that be hoarding of some kind?
[QUOTE=JustExtreme;38450994]But if they're just leaving it dormant, wouldn't that be hoarding of some kind?[/QUOTE]
You pay for the privilege of doing whatever the fuck you want to do with your property including letting it sit there and go to waste. That's how ownership works. It's yours to do with whatever you so please and nobody has the right to tell you otherwise.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38450696]
The law that allows you to become a legal owner of a property after occupying it for 12 years is unrelated to this however.[/QUOTE]
What part of my post made you think that was what I was talking about?
Im saying that squatters rights laws are moronic and that some legal distinction as to whether or not they technically own your property isnt going to be any comfort to you since they still broke in in the first place.
The stupid part of squatters rights is the whole part where they can legally break in to your house and take it over, even if temporarily. Especially considering that they obviously aren't responsible for cleaning up after they are evicted.
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;38450841]I know two people who moved from the UK 2 months ago. That's what they told me.[/QUOTE]
Anecdotal evidence isn't very reliable.
"oh i once knew a mates pal who told me the british gubbermint does X"
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;38450841]And who wouldn't want to have 6 mansions if you're a billionaire? You cant even spend all your fucking money so why not.[/QUOTE]
Because the costs of building them outweigh the benefits for society.
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;38450841]The community doesn't own your property and they can't tell you what to do with your own land. This isn't soviet Russia, and that's why I hate by laws.[/QUOTE]
Well tough shit, the only reason you can own land in the first place is because the state exists.
[editline]14th November 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;38450968]Do you even understand inflation[/QUOTE]
What the fuck does inflation have to do with this?
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;38451037]You pay for the privilege of doing whatever the fuck you want to do with your property including letting it sit there and go to waste. That's how ownership works. It's yours to do with whatever you so please and nobody has the right to tell you otherwise.[/QUOTE]
So you pay for the government/group of armed mercenaries to protect that privilege by force?
Use based property rights seem more sensible to me - if you don't use something, why should you be able to hoard it and keep it from others who would or in this case have no home to call their own?
Property is theft :P
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