• Trump administration rolls back protections for people in default on student loans
    111 replies, posted
[quote]Days after a report on federal student loans revealed a double-digit rise in defaults, President Trump’s administration revoked federal guidance Thursday that barred student debt collectors from charging high fees on past-due loans. The Education Department is ordering guarantee agencies that collect on defaulted debt to disregard a memo former President Barack Obama’s administration issued on the old bank-based federal lending program, known as the Federal Family Education Loan (FFEL) Program. That memo forbid the agencies from charging fees for up to 16 percent of the principal and accrued interest owed on the loans, if the borrower entered the government’s loan rehabilitation program within 60 days of default. The Obama administration issued the memo after a circuit court of appeals asked for guidance in a case against United Student Aid Funds (USA Funds) challenging the assessment of collection costs. Bryana Bible took the company to court after being charged $4,547 in collection costs on a loan she defaulted on in 2012. Though she had signed a “rehabilitation agreement” with USA Funds to set a reduced payment schedule to resolve her debt, the company assessed the fees. [/quote] [url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2017/03/17/trump-administration-rolls-back-protections-for-people-in-default-on-student-loans/?tid=sm_tw&utm_term=.870b34ee8e0f[/url] ouch. This is one of the situations where I really gotta count my blessings that I don't have to bother with student loans, it's a goddamn trap.
So glad I'm graduating soon
How does this help anyone? How does this make america great?
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52030432]How does this help anyone? How does this make america great?[/QUOTE] It will motive students to work harder! Those pesky liberals need to learn how to pull themselves up by their bootstraps! /s
[I]Since you don't have enough money to pay your ridiculously high bills now, I'm going to charge you even more![/I]
I mean, let's just ignore the inflating student debt bubble and actually make it worse! That will surely not backfire in any way! :downs:
What an excellent range of choices to present to the young minds of this generation, the ones who we hope to take on the mantle of making tomorrow a better place to live: a) Take a loan, do college for the piece of paper, fight in a saturated job market with corporations trying to invent new ways to get you to do work for them for free or better yet, have [I]you[/I] pay them to work for experience. Also, now pay loans. b) Go the school of street smarts route, put in double the effort, avoid college, be hit with a glass ceiling at some point because of lack of qualifications and then languish at a specific payscale because you didn't want to take on the risk of debt. c) Somehow, beat the odds, get a scholarship, do college, end with minimal debt and hope you somehow continue to beat the odds and get a well paying job out the gate. At this rate, between what they're doing to the environment and this, the coming generation is going to hate us as much as we hated the Baby Boomers.
I think I get the idea here, but not the greatest execution. Still, maybe this will dissuade people from taking loans in the first place and hopefully take the bottom out from college prices in the long term. Maybe we should put more into educating potential borrowers instead, actually. This doesn't feel right. [QUOTE=snookypookums;52030457]What an excellent range of choices to present to the young minds of this generation, the ones who we hope to take on the mantle of making tomorrow a better place to live: a) Take a loan, do college for the piece of paper, fight in a saturated job market with corporations trying to invent new ways to get you to do work for them for free or better yet, have [I]you[/I] pay them to work for experience. Also, now pay loans. b) Go the school of street smarts route, put in double the effort, avoid college, be hit with a glass ceiling at some point because of lack of qualifications and then languish at a specific payscale because you didn't want to take on the risk of debt. c) Somehow, beat the odds, get a scholarship, do college, end with minimal debt and hope you somehow continue to beat the odds and get a well paying job out the gate. At this rate, between what they're doing to the environment and this, the coming generation is going to hate us as much as we hated the Baby Boomers.[/QUOTE] You're missing a few options, I think. d) [B]don't go to college,[/B] self-study to pass a licensing exam in finance/trades and start working almost immediately e) [B]don't go to college, [/B]do b, but save up your money and try to start a business, fail and persevere until you make it f) [B]don't go to college, [/B]join the military g) [B]don't go to college, [/B]pursue an entrepreneurial field, bring a new product to market h) [B]don't go to college, [/B]do b, but save up your money and invest in things that are poised to give high returns /s) [B]don't go to college, [/B]speculate in the markets and gamble away your life/become rich beyond your wildest imagination
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;52030558]All of those were covered in "somehow, beat the odds" but nice try. Except for military. If you have to join the military to have a basic living, you're just getting fucked by the system.[/QUOTE] Sorry, I've appended a little fix to differentiate them. Plenty of people make fine careers out of the military ([URL="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5c/James_Mattis_Official_SECDEF_Photo.jpg/800px-James_Mattis_Official_SECDEF_Photo.jpg"]some[/URL] even go into government afterwards), and to dismiss the option out of hand like that is a real disrespect to those folks. You don't [I]need[/I] college to have a good life.
[QUOTE=Chonch;52030574]Sorry, I've appended a little fix to differentiate them. Plenty of people make fine careers out of the military (some even go into government afterwards), and to dismiss the option out of hand like that is a real disrespect to those folks. You don't [I]need[/I] college to have a good life.[/QUOTE] No but you shouldn't rely on the military for a good career either.
[QUOTE=Chonch;52030574]Sorry, I've appended a little fix to differentiate them. Plenty of people make fine careers out of the military ([URL="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5c/James_Mattis_Official_SECDEF_Photo.jpg/800px-James_Mattis_Official_SECDEF_Photo.jpg"]some[/URL] even go into government afterwards), and to dismiss the option out of hand like that is a real disrespect to those folks. You don't [I]need[/I] college to have a good life.[/QUOTE] Why seek higher education down a path you're passionate and/or knowledgeable about when you can risk getting drafted and killed instead?
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;52030604]To be fair, military doesn't instantly mean PTSD-ridden combat role. But it is not a solution for life-long careers, not for the majority.[/QUOTE] I'm aware, but there are far fewer options of expertise coming out the military than college, the primary benefit is saving money but it is still a gamble and a risk is present. I don't want to say it's nothing but carrying missiles and getting sent back home...I personally know a few friends who have developed very useful skills from the military. But it is by no means as opportune and resourceful as college or uni.
And most military skills are not transferable over to civillian life. I have several friends who all "graduated" from the military. They had to take entry level jobs and do entry level things for years because they have literally no job experience. Sure, they have military, but the companies that exist today, don't fucking care. I feel like when that's offered as an honest "But it's better than college", you kinda have to wonder how accurate that joke of a statement really is
[QUOTE=Xanadu;52030600]Why seek higher education down a path you're passionate and/or knowledgeable about when you can risk getting drafted and killed instead?[/QUOTE] Dude you can join the military and literally be a desk clerk or water purifier. It's actually not a bad deal. You give 4 years of your life to serve your country, gain a great deal of marketable skills that look AWESOME on a resume, travel, make lifelong connections, improve yourself as a person, get into good physical shape instead of being fat and disgusting, save money, get some very important references, free room and board, and you get 4 years of school for literally free. And not every branch or job is hardcore. If you're not looking for anything crazy, the Air Force and the Navy have a high standard of living and the training is by no means difficult. The Army can be difficult depending on your job, the combat arms community will be much more difficult than administrative. The Marine Corps is not for the faint of heart, but you will gain a lot from the experience. Not only that, but you get free training. Not everybody just shoots guns all day, there are IT specialists, mechanics, heavy equipment operators, and a multitude of other things that transfer into the civilian world.
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;52030581]Yeah, I heard about all the great benefits military veterans get. It is not a good answer to poverty and economic crises facing the nation today. Having all the economically disadvantaged people join the military to have[I] a basic living[/I] is the start of a good dystopian novel. I agree that people do not need college and should not go if they cannot afford it, but military and "invent your own business and hope it doesn't go under!" is not a solution. You realize investing, inventing, making businesses require initial cash flow, right?[/QUOTE] I can't tell if you're doing this on purpose or if you really just did not understand the post. Of course you need cash to start out, that's where you get a job or 3, live like a pauper for a time, and save everything you've got. Without the cash flow problem, are these still unviable career paths?
[QUOTE=italics560;52030636]Dude you can join the military and literally be a desk clerk or water purifier. It's actually not a bad deal. You give 4 years of your life to serve your country, gain a great deal of marketable skills that look AWESOME on a resume, travel, make lifelong connections, improve yourself as a person, get into good physical shape instead of being fat and disgusting, save money, get some very important references, free room and board, and you get 4 years of school for literally free. And not every branch or job is hardcore. If you're not looking for anything crazy, the Air Force and the Navy have a high standard of living and the training is by no means difficult. The Army can be difficult depending on your job, the combat arms community will be much more difficult than administrative. The Marine Corps is not for the faint of heart, but you will gain a lot from the experience. Not only that, but you get free training. Not everybody just shoots guns all day, there are IT specialists, mechanics, heavy equipment operators, and a multitude of other things that transfer into the civilian world.[/QUOTE] See my following post...I agree with everything you just said. Key word is risk, albeit a low risk.
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;52030652]Yes? They're risky as shit, dude.[/QUOTE] And? This country was built by folks taking risks. College is a risk. Loans are a risk. If you're adverse to risk, you're not going to get far in life.
[QUOTE=Chonch;52030659]And? This country was built by folks taking risks. College is a risk. Loans are a risk. If you're adverse to risk, you're not going to get far in life.[/QUOTE] Risk isn't a fucking switch you flip on and off, everyone has a scale on which they determine the level of risk they are comfortable taking. remember that investment option you mentioned? Guess what, investment management is all about measuring risk. Not everyone wants to leverage their entire lives on a gamble. And not everyone should have to.
In the vast majority of cases, a career in the military is only good if what you ultimately hope to achieve is... a career in the military. Offering the military as an [I]alternative[/I] to college sets you up for a lifetime of being able to do little else. The skills you learn in your military occupational specialty are very often simply not transferrable. I was a unmanned aerial systems operator, a pilot with a high degree of technical training in surveillance, reconnaissance, target acquisition, imagery analysis, etc, etc. Yet, my qualifications accounted for shit-all back in the civilian world. I had to start from square one, waiting tables at a crappy bar, and build a completely new life. Nowadays, that experience is little more than an afterthought on my resume. [editline]/[/editline] Well, it may not be fair to say "the vast majority" of cases. That's an exaggeration, of course. Just the same, military experience in itself guarantees nothing. If your job has a 1:1 civilian counterpart, such as IT, construction, mechanic work, etc, your odds of it applying are generally going to be higher. Otherwise, your career in the military is really only as good in the civilian world as putting, "has leadership experience," on your resume.
[QUOTE=Chonch;52030548]I think I get the idea here, but not the greatest execution. Still, maybe this will dissuade people from taking loans in the first place and hopefully take the bottom out from college prices in the long term.[/QUOTE] Yeah, maybe the money made by charging financially desperate students for being poor will trickle down to those lower classes.
[QUOTE=Chonch;52030659]And? This country was built by folks taking risks. College is a risk. Loans are a risk. If you're adverse to risk, you're not going to get far in life.[/QUOTE] The question that should be asked is why should college education, something that anyone who wishes to pursue should have, be associated with risk? It certainly shouldn't be justified based on how the country was built. Being adverse to risk should not mean unwillingness to cripple oneself with debt. That's obscene.
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;52030665]You realize that there are different levels of risk, right? You cannot expect every single person to accept such high risk. It won't work for everyone. It is not a solution. If it wasn't risky to open a business, everyone would do it. But they do not. The chance of failure are high, and the repercussions of failure are grim.[/QUOTE] I work in finance--trust me when I say I understand fully the concepts of risk. Not everyone needs to do the things I described, that's why they are [U] options[/U]. Not everyone gets student loans either, nor does everyone have terrible debt from borrowing irresponsibly or just plain defaulting either. You're following these ideas to absolute conclusions and that's just not correct. Then again, you've also entirely lost me on where you're going with this.
[QUOTE=italics560;52030636]Dude you can join the military and literally be a desk clerk or water purifier. It's actually not a bad deal. You give 4 years of your life to serve your country, gain a great deal of marketable skills that look AWESOME on a resume, travel, make lifelong connections, improve yourself as a person, get into good physical shape instead of being fat and disgusting, save money, get some very important references, free room and board, and you get 4 years of school for literally free. And not every branch or job is hardcore. If you're not looking for anything crazy, the Air Force and the Navy have a high standard of living and the training is by no means difficult. The Army can be difficult depending on your job, the combat arms community will be much more difficult than administrative. The Marine Corps is not for the faint of heart, but you will gain a lot from the experience. Not only that, but you get free training. Not everybody just shoots guns all day, there are IT specialists, mechanics, heavy equipment operators, and a multitude of other things that transfer into the civilian world.[/QUOTE] Sorry You're wrong. They are not marketable skills. People who come out of the military are seen as having no skills by corporations and companies at large and they have no work experience. You have no method of validating your work experience. Yes, that's somewhat shameful, but there's a sense to it. I wish you would not peddle a lie as a truth.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52030691]Sorry You're wrong. They are not marketable skills. People who come out of the military are seen as having no skills by corporations and companies at large and they have no work experience. You have no method of validating your work experience. Yes, that's somewhat shameful, but there's a sense to it. I wish you would not peddle a lie as a truth.[/QUOTE] I know people who started in the military doing various types of jobs actually, and they were hired by my company partially for that experience..
[QUOTE=Tigster;52030694]I know people who started in the military doing various types of jobs actually, and they were hired by my company partially for that experience..[/QUOTE] And like I said, I have ex military friends who are to this day, still doing fairly entry level work because military experience is not job experience. I'm glad some people are having it work out for them. It's not a guarantee or anything.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52030703]And like I said, I have ex military friends who are to this day, still doing fairly entry level work because military experience is not job experience. I'm glad some people are having it work out for them. It's not a guarantee or anything.[/QUOTE] Okay you didn't say it wasn't a guarantee, you were speaking in what looked to be absolutes. "No marketable skills." "no method of validating your work experience." These are patently false. Will your mileage vary? Yes. Is it a black and white issue? No.
[QUOTE=Tigster;52030671]Risk isn't a fucking switch you flip on and off, everyone has a scale on which they determine the level of risk they are comfortable taking. remember that investment option you mentioned? Guess what, investment management is all about measuring risk. Not everyone wants to leverage their entire lives on a gamble. And not everyone should have to.[/QUOTE] Chonch isn't totally off-base, but his perspective is coming across as very naive, [I]at best[/I]. If investment strategies and entrepreneurial endeavors are to be the only viable means of upward mobility, as Chonch seems to be suggesting is proper, then we are in incredibly dire straits as a country. Furthermore, as you say, risk is not something to just be blindly accepted, but to be mitigated through every reasonable means. I am a real estate investor, and I would [B]never[/B] get involved with a deal that I was uncertain about. If I cannot quantify and calculate every probable risk, and structure my deal as to minimize the odds of loss and maximize my chances to profit within a very specific range, then I simply won't get involved in the deal. If somebody were to sit down and front of me and ask me to invest on nothing more than some hackneyed line about being bold enough to accept great risk, as Chonch is, I'd laugh and tell him to bring me some numbers next time. If they also threw in a patriotic appeal about our nation's founding fathers, I would tell them [I]not to bother[/I] coming back.
[QUOTE=Chonch;52030659]And? This country was built by folks taking risks. College is a risk. Loans are a risk. If you're adverse to risk, you're not going to get far in life.[/QUOTE] this is such meaningless appeal to emotion. the formation of the country was risky, yes, and so was pretty much everything else in 16th century life. what exactly is the argument here? how does that factor into policy making in 2017? should we make things riskier for the sake of tradition? it's just plain absurd no matter how you look at it
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52030691]Sorry You're wrong. They are not marketable skills. People who come out of the military are seen as having no skills by corporations and companies at large and they have no work experience. You have no method of validating your work experience. Yes, that's somewhat shameful, but there's a sense to it. I wish you would not peddle a lie as a truth.[/QUOTE] It depends really on what field your in, a ground pounder ain't got shit for marketable skills. My dad was in the Air Force and got all of his training for his AnP license that way, his work values former military with aircraft maintenance skills more than people with college degrees.
[QUOTE=Tigster;52030708]Okay you didn't say it wasn't a guarantee, you were speaking in what looked to be absolutes. "No marketable skills." "no method of validating your work experience." These are patently false. Will your mileage vary? Yes. Is it a black and white issue? No.[/QUOTE] Because the majority of companies don't care dude Maybe it's massively different in the states(but I don't believe so) but that's how it is here in many ways. I have heard tell of all sorts of horror stories about this very subject. There is no method of validating your work experience for the military. You can have worked in IT(my friend worked in military IT) and the companies you apply to may very well not view that as applicable job experience.
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