• Trump administration rolls back protections for people in default on student loans
    111 replies, posted
[QUOTE=counterpo0;52031086]As someone who doesn't have much family and is still early twenties it's fucking great to travel. If I didn't join I would lived and died in one state working shit end retail. Best part is getting out and going to college after with little to no debt.[/QUOTE] I have made a few friends who have served in the US in various capacities - one was a USMC guy, another was in the navy and another did demolitions (I dont like to pry so I generally dont enquire beyond what their role was because I imagine they get that all the time. All of them have some similarities in that their knees and bodies are kinda fucked from hauling around backpacks that weigh about eleventy billion tons and almost all of them had no transferable skills. The demolitions guy now works as IT tech support for a company out of Omaha. USMC guy does retail sales and the navy person helps his dad run a hardware store (i.e. essentially being prepared to take over the business). I believe one of them mentioned in passing that they [I]do[/I] get disability pay for injuries they received while on duty, but I dont know if its true or even how much. However, all of them did mention that the US Armed Forces do have some great laws in place to make sure that their servicemen can continue to play a productive role in civilian life by getting a university education. I also learned that this wasn't a new path, either - my most recent exs father was a Vietnam War vet who started off life in a dirt-poor family in Kentucky. He learned how to fly planes to do crop dusting and was a helicopter pilot during the Vietnam war because of this experience. He then was able to successfully transfer that experience into a full time profession working as a commercial pilot until he retired about a decade ago, making some serious money to the point where he owned a nice vacation home in Florida and a little boat to call his own :smile: . So I do concede that a pathway through the military [I]is[/I] possible, as Chonch pointed out - however, even that is luck of the draw, like every path available. Not to mention everyone cannot meet the military's requirement for a free ride. You could die during your service, have life-altering injuries that would leave you unable to work after discharge and force you to live on disability pay, or even, as BDA pointed out, start from scratch because the skills you learned were non transferable in civilian life.
[QUOTE=snookypookums;52031141]I believe one of them mentioned in passing that they [I]do[/I] get disability pay for injuries they received while on duty, but I dont know if its true or even how much.[/QUOTE] I don't know exactly how it works anymore but at least in the past this was definitely possible. My grandfather was in the air force for 26 years and due to some screw ups on the military's side when it came to medical treatment of an issue he had, he got on disability. From what my mom told me he was actually considered more than 100% disabled for some reason too. (And this despite the fact he still actively worked up until about a year to a year and a half before he died and he only stopped then because he was dealing with cancer and basically physically unable to work.)
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52030691]Sorry You're wrong. They are not marketable skills. People who come out of the military are seen as having no skills by corporations and companies at large and they have no work experience. You have no method of validating your work experience. Yes, that's somewhat shameful, but there's a sense to it. I wish you would not peddle a lie as a truth.[/QUOTE] Whatever you say dude. I'm pretty sure that 4 years as a communications guy in the Marines is going to help me out quite a bit. Not to mention that a large part of my training counts as college credits. I have experience in leadership roles, been involved in multi-national exercises, have seen a large part of the world, and have developed a lot of discipline in the past 3 years I've been in. Most of my acquaintances that have gotten out are either doing well in school or gainfully employed. A lot of them joined the police force, and most got into technical fields puting their security clearances and training to good use and being paid well for it. The ones that aren't doing well were pieces of shit while they were in. And yes I do have a method for validating my work experience, it's called a military transcript. You work on one when you are about to get out to find out how what you have done transfers to the civilian sector. For example, I've been to INCD1 and INCD2 which are Cisco certifications. That was paid for by the Marine Corps. I'm also attending online college in my free time to gather credits. You are painfully uninformed.
Maybe if we take money from broke American college students, the money will "trickle down" to them. Laughable at best.
[QUOTE=italics560;52030636]Dude you can join the military and literally [I][B]could[/B][/I] be a desk clerk or water purifier. [/QUOTE] Fixed that for you. The military pretty much decides what you're going to be based on what they need. If they need a grunt, they'll make you a grunt. I live in a military town, full of current recruits and retired veterans alike. Heard plenty of horror stories of people who meant well by getting educated in the military, hoping for these sorts of cushy jobs you mentioned, and doing well enough to get them, only to end up loading bombs on a carrier.
I joined the Marines hoping to get somewhere in life and ended up with a shitty injury, dicked over by the VA, and back to square one with a half-functional knee. Oh, and as a machine gunner I have no transferable skills. The military is only kind in fickle moments, and a cruel mistress otherwise. That is by no means an acceptable way to 'get ahead.' To say otherwise is just ignoring the fact that our (American) educational system is deeply and fundamentally flawed due to the monetizing that completely crippled the average American's ability to seek higher education.
[QUOTE=Zero-Point;52031348]Fixed that for you. The military pretty much decides what you're going to be based on what they need. If they need a grunt, they'll make you a grunt. I live in a military town, full of current recruits and retired veterans alike. Heard plenty of horror stories of people who meant well by getting educated in the military, hoping for these sorts of cushy jobs you mentioned, and doing well enough to get them, only to end up loading bombs on a carrier.[/QUOTE] Obviously you need to meet requirements for the job dude. But when you go to a recruiter, you can specify what job you want. That's what I did, and I got it. [editline]30th March 2017[/editline] They don't just change their minds if they feel like it. That's a myth.
[QUOTE=italics560;52031416]Obviously you need to meet requirements for the job dude. But when you go to a recruiter, you can specify what job you want. That's what I did, and I got it. [editline]30th March 2017[/editline] They don't just change their minds if they feel like it. That's a myth.[/QUOTE] Buddy, 99% of the people going into boot camp have no fuckin' clue what they're getting. I had a guy with me that was told he was going to be a technician and ended up a fire fighter.
[QUOTE=italics560;52031292]Whatever you say dude. I'm pretty sure that 4 years as a communications guy in the Marines is going to help me out quite a bit. Not to mention that a large part of my training counts as college credits. I have experience in leadership roles, been involved in multi-national exercises, have seen a large part of the world, and have developed a lot of discipline in the past 3 years I've been in. Most of my acquaintances that have gotten out are either doing well in school or gainfully employed. A lot of them joined the police force, and most got into technical fields puting their security clearances and training to good use and being paid well for it. The ones that aren't doing well were pieces of shit while they were in. And yes I do have a method for validating my work experience, it's called a military transcript. You work on one when you are about to get out to find out how what you have done transfers to the civilian sector. For example, I've been to INCD1 and INCD2 which are Cisco certifications. That was paid for by the Marine Corps. I'm also attending online college in my free time to gather credits. You are painfully uninformed.[/QUOTE] Hell yeah signal 4 lyfe. I am graced to not be in light infantry, so rarely carry any heavy shit. Combat arms guys? Yeah they carry some heavy weapons. However for the army you do get to pick exactly what your job is. America's education system is fucked no doubt about It, but I had nothing and I mean nothing going for me. The military can pay for my education so if my plan falls through and I can't find a job I'm not struggling to pay any debt. Those student loans kick in at what 6 months after you graduate? Fuck that
You can argue back and forth that you should or shouldn't take college loans in XYZ situation but the fact of the matter is that college degrees have, on average, the highest ROI of literally anything ever.
So happy that i didnt need student loans
Can somebody explain to me how come American university costs so damn much? Is it for the same reasons your healthcare is retarded, or does the fact that you "live" in the college play a large role? Don't you guys have "normal" universities where you just go to follow your lessons, and otherwise live at home?
[QUOTE=phygon;52031769]You can argue back and forth that you should or shouldn't take college loans in XYZ situation but the fact of the matter is that college degrees have, on average, the highest ROI of literally anything ever.[/QUOTE] It's also only an economically crippling venture in the US, basically every single other country on Earth has seen the value of higher education and its role in developing and improving society, thus they either provide free college for everyone, or significantly lower tuition costs. College is free even in fucking Venezuela, it's free in Sweden, it's free in many parts of Europe, it's free even in Turkey, China, Russia, you name it. The only place in the world where a college education is perceived as a cross to bear is in the US. The suggestion that someone who can't afford college shouldn't pursue higher education is troubling. Your access to education shouldn't be determined by your economic status, but rather due to your academic merits, many of the world's most renowned scientists and academicians come from humble origins. America gains nothing by screwing over its graduate students, it only stifles innovation, and it won't be long until other countries take over as technological world leaders if the US government keeps failing to acknowledge the huge burden that student debt brings.
[QUOTE=Chonch;52030548]I think I get the idea here, but not the greatest execution. Still, maybe this will dissuade people from taking loans in the first place and hopefully take the bottom out from college prices in the long term. Maybe we should put more into educating potential borrowers instead, actually. This doesn't feel right. You're missing a few options, I think. d) [B]don't go to college,[/B] self-study to pass a licensing exam in finance/trades and start working almost immediately e) [B]don't go to college, [/B]do b, but save up your money and try to start a business, fail and persevere until you make it f) [B]don't go to college, [/B]join the military g) [B]don't go to college, [/B]pursue an entrepreneurial field, bring a new product to market h) [B]don't go to college, [/B]do b, but save up your money and invest in things that are poised to give high returns /s) [B]don't go to college, [/B]speculate in the markets and gamble away your life/become rich beyond your wildest imagination[/QUOTE] This is still really shitty though because there's professions you absolutely have to go a university for, like teaching for example. Even with those extra options it's still putting a wall between so many jobs and people who can't afford college.
Goddamnit I just want to go to college. I was so excited to vote for Hillary or Bernie because they would have made college easier for people like me who don't have dozens of scholarships or a college fund. I graduate in May and I don't want to go to college because I'm afraid of taking on hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt, entering an oversaturated job market with no chance to ever own my own home. I wanted to join the Navy to get the GI money to go to college, but I don't know if that's such a smart idea anymore. Why do people who already have it good refuse to make things easier for people who don't necessarily have a leg up? Why do trust-fund babies like Trump and established salarymen like Chonch think they have the right to tell me to just play the stupid game? This might be a snipe/flaming, but I'd like to know how Chonch got to where he is. I'm honestly curious, as I want to know where your perspective on risk/risk avoidance comes from. When you got your college education, did you have a free ride? Did you have a trust fund waiting for you? Did you get to where you are all on your own?
[QUOTE=Chonch;52030643]Of course you need cash to start out, that's where you get a job or 3[/QUOTE] Oh, how appropriate this clip is. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siAbiwPyccg[/media]
[QUOTE=Chonch;52030548]You're missing a few options, I think. d) [B]don't go to college,[/B] self-study to pass a licensing exam in finance/trades and start working almost immediately e) [B]don't go to college, [/B]do b, but save up your money and try to start a business, fail and persevere until you make it f) [B]don't go to college, [/B]join the military g) [B]don't go to college, [/B]pursue an entrepreneurial field, bring a new product to market h) [B]don't go to college, [/B]do b, but save up your money and invest in things that are poised to give high returns[/QUOTE] From the perspective of someone living in a country where the government gives you money to get a higher education, this is not sounding like a very great, leading country...
[QUOTE=Annoyed Grunt;52031821]Can somebody explain to me how come American university costs so damn much? Is it for the same reasons your healthcare is retarded, or does the fact that you "live" in the college play a large role? Don't you guys have "normal" universities where you just go to follow your lessons, and otherwise live at home?[/QUOTE] It costs so much "because it can" there's really no other reason, and the "normal university " you're asking about would be equivalent to community college, which is still ridiculously expensive. Adding on to the "because it can" costs are the (not really but totally a monopoly guys) monopolies publishers and other companies like Texas Instruments hold over the colleges that further inflate the costs because they're the only things you can use, they release new textbooks every two years or so that has the same information as the previous edition, just moved around a little to prevent used book sales. And in Texas Instruments' case, they're using almost identical to 10 years ago models of calculators which are the only approved ones for tests. (that last point isn't true at every college, some don't care what you use as long as it isn't a phone)
[QUOTE=Zero-Point;52031348]The military pretty much decides what you're going to be based on what they need. If they need a grunt, they'll make you a grunt.[/QUOTE] lol this isn't how it works. You just don't know what you're talking about. Please stop. There's mainly two situations where this happens: One is if you INTENTIONALLY sign up with an open contract for some inconceivable reason, the other is if you go something like Special Forces or the Navy's nuclear engineering shit and flunk out (both cases you're going to be a cook or a fueler or something, not a grunt; unless you can convince people you've got real expertise worth putting to use somewhere). Otherwise, for the vast majority of people, you get your job in writing before you even start training (not including specializations which happen later but still after you have a general idea what you're going to be) There is absolutely no shortage of people wanting to be infantry, if there was, people who fail out of Special Forces training would be thrown into Infantry and not cooking jobs [editline]30th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=TheLonelyDonu;52031885] I wanted to join the Navy to get the GI money to go to college, but I don't know if that's such a smart idea anymore. [/QUOTE] I wonder what's smarter, taking out a huge loan you have no idea how to pay off, or just doing office work in the military for 4 years, WHILE you take free college? Literally just join the air force and be a clerk. Or, if you have an idea of what you want to do after college (which you should if you're considering taking a student loan for it) do that job in the military and build up references, networks, 4 years of applicable work experience, and have your college (that you're taking while you're in) and any certifications paid for
I guess my first college semester will be my last. Maybe I'll get lucky if we elect a Berniecrat after Trump.
[QUOTE=Bazsil;52032168]lol this isn't how it works. You just don't know what you're talking about. Please stop. There's mainly two situations where this happens: One is if you INTENTIONALLY sign up with an open contract for some inconceivable reason, the other is if you go something like Special Forces or the Navy's nuclear engineering shit and flunk out (both cases you're going to be a cook or a fueler or something, not a grunt; unless you can convince people you've got real expertise worth putting to use somewhere). Otherwise, for the vast majority of people, you get your job in writing before you even start training (not including specializations which happen later but still after you have a general idea what you're going to be) There is absolutely no shortage of people wanting to be infantry, if there was, people who fail out of Special Forces training would be thrown into Infantry and not cooking jobs [/QUOTE] Let's assume that you're correct, that there's no shortage of people wanting to be infantry, and assume that this is viable for the military because there's always a vacancy for that particular skill-set. Now imagine every college student that can't afford college without getting ass-fucked by loans applies for the military in order to be educated in IT, auto mechanics, aeronautical, etc. Do you honestly think the military is going to be able to give them the positions they want, even assuming that only 15-25% of them make the grade? I highly doubt that. Either way, you're relying on tax-payer dollars to send kids to college, only this time you're relying on the massively-bloated defense-spending budget, which would have to be further expanded to accommodate all these new recruits who are going in just so they can get an education that [I]even then[/I] won't guarantee them a job in the private sector.
I swear conservative s treat life like a game. I don't think crippling debt and having no finances is just part of life.
[QUOTE=Tigster;52030708]Okay you didn't say it wasn't a guarantee, you were speaking in what looked to be absolutes. "No marketable skills." "no method of validating your work experience." These are patently false. Will your mileage vary? Yes. Is it a black and white issue? No.[/QUOTE] He also didn't account for the times having past military experience will prevent you from getting the job for a large variety of reasons, some of which even make sense. It's similar to being gay, they can't say they're going to not hire or fire you because of it, but they are doing so.
[QUOTE=Speedhax;52032286]I swear conservative s treat life like a game. I don't think crippling debt and having no finances is just part of life.[/QUOTE] I got a new laptop recently that was about a third of the cost of one we got when I was a kid, and probably more powerful adjusting for the differences in technology. I was about to tell someone how it was funny that things like that are getting so much cheaper when the cost of living is so high but then I stopped myself and said it was bullshit because there is absolutely no reason why affording simple things like a place to live needs to be so brutally​ difficult​. We've just let a bunch of old cunts drain as many resources out of the public as they can and take the laziest and most short-sighted route to lining their pockets.
Have I ever mentioned how much I love education policies in America? It's times like these that make me really glad I was born in the "greatest country on earth." /s My parents subscribe to the "you didn't get a scholarship/job/internship because you didn't try hard enough" monthly so I always get blamed for having student debt and poor job outlooks. Why are people so goddamn stupid here? Fuck this country. Fuck it so much.
i'm all for picking up bootstraps and shit but having a pretty high economic barrier for entry to higher education is a waste of potentially gifted people. i'm not saying you can't put your potential to use without education in life but i'm saying that it's going to be so much easier when you have education and training. edit: student loans are being emphasized here by making them increasingly affordable while cutting the allowance (the government pays off a bunch if you finish university in time) but you could still live on the free student allowance, then take a student loan, low risk invest, pay off the loan with the money you didnt use and pocket the profit after graduating.
soon-to-be-the-most hated man-ever
[QUOTE=TheLonelyDonu;52031885] I wanted to join the Navy to get the GI money to go to college, but I don't know if that's such a smart idea anymore. [/QUOTE] It's absolutely a great idea. Go in trying to get a job that has some civilian application so you have even more options. The silver lining to Trump's expansion of military spending is that right now is the best time in years for someone who is interested in joining the military to join.
[QUOTE=kyle877;52031421]Buddy, 99% of the people going into boot camp have no fuckin' clue what they're getting. I had a guy with me that was told he was going to be a technician and ended up a fire fighter.[/QUOTE] Dude literally everybody in my boot camp class had a guaranteed job. It's within the contract you sign. The only ones that didn't signed an open contract. You're just making up bullshit statistics.
I guess those of us that couldn't even consider the military due to health reasons just need to go fuck themselves.
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