Terrorist attack on Istanbul nightclub - multiple wounded - Polidicks

Ok, making it clear. I meant to say that its stupid with "antagonizing" all muslims. I noticed i mentioned Islamism, that was a fuck up on my part.

[QUOTE=yff;51607664]This is the logical end of every single islamist argument: mass murder people who don't agree with you. Treating islamists like human beings with different ideas instead of ticking time bombs will create that result every single time.[/QUOTE] What should be done about Islamists?

Really sad to hear, specially on New Years. This stuff is so scary

[QUOTE=Deathtrooper2;51607796]I already mentioned that i meant to say Muslim. I mixed up saying Islamist.[/QUOTE] Its okay to admit you didn't know the difference and jumped to conclusions.

[QUOTE=MadPro119;51607821]Its okay to admit you didn't know the difference and jumped to conclusions.[/QUOTE] Guess what im a fucking retard and sometimes mess up what im trying to say.

[QUOTE=yff;51607789]You are in the goddamn US which gets cream of the crop of worldwide immigrants. You're seeing college educated people, the situation is [B]not[/B] even close to be compared. And even then, it seems that you can't comprehend what islamism is.[/QUOTE] 'Cream of the crop'. That is just far fetched bullshit.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;51607814]What should be done about Islamists?[/QUOTE] Well the first step in my opinion would be taking of kiddie gloves when something non "white/European" is mentioned. In this context, I would support some official stance akin to: "Hey guys, we realize that religion is something essential to most human beings, but you have to understand that our hard-fought freedoms and values which were formed from thousands of hectolitres of blood spilled on European soil are [B]not negotiable[/B]. We welcome everyone who is willing to adapt to our lifestyle and become part of the system. You may still keep your values and culture inside your homes in private, but in public it's 'when in Rome, do as the Romans do'." At least this is what I'd like, along with tightening the immigration since it's much cheaper and much better in the long term to help them out near their countries rather they come here. Not only is it unfair towards those who are trying to migrate the fair way with all forms and whatnot, but it also practically destroys incompatible culture clash and violence which is to come (this gets destroyed because only people who respect our values and can contribute to our society are accepted via applications). [editline]1st January 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=jamzzster;51607843]'Cream of the crop'. That is just far fetched bullshit.[/QUOTE] ROFL UK is in it as well. Anglosphere in general gets the best migrants. Are you even aware of what Calais jungle is? It literally proves my point. Also, it seems FP is shitting itself.

[QUOTE=yff;51607664]This is the logical end of every single islamist argument: mass murder people who don't agree with you. Treating islamists like human beings with different ideas instead of ticking time bombs will create that result every single time.[/QUOTE] This is exactly how extremists rally people to commit terrorists acts. By demoting the other side to less-than-human, it makes it easy for them to convince their followers to kill the enemy; after all, you're not committing murder, you're just slaughtering animals.

[QUOTE=Headhumpy;51607866]This is exactly how extremists rally people to commit terrorists acts. By demoting the other side to less-than-human, it makes it easy for them to convince their followers to kill the enemy; after all, you're not committing murder, you're just slaughtering animals.[/QUOTE] Do you really think they give a shit about what we think of them? I could actually bet real money that they just laugh between each other when they read "I'm disgusted" and similar responses to their acts. The only thing they want from us is complete submission and victory of Islam. If you really think what you're saying is true, then can you please explain to me how come there aren't any Trump supporters committing massacres, especially when coming out as a Trump supporter in liberal area is akin to coming out as homosexual in extremely conservative surrounding. I mean, it's taboo to admit it here on online forum, let alone in real life. Hell, following your logic, why aren't homosexuals committing terrorist acts in MENA then? [editline]1st January 2017[/editline] I mean holy shit, if all it takes is few words for someone to start killing other people, maybe we shouldn't let those kind of people near us in the first place? My rights don't end where your feelings begin.

[QUOTE=yff;51607891]Do you really think they give a shit about what we think of them? I could actually bet real money that they just laugh between each other when they read "I'm disgusted" and similar responses to their acts. The only thing they want from us is complete submission and victory of Islam. If you really think what you're saying is true, then can you please explain to me how come there aren't any Trump supporters committing massacres, especially when coming out as a Trump supporter in liberal area is akin to coming out as homosexual in extremely conservative surrounding. I mean, it's taboo to admit it here on online forum, let alone in real life. Hell, following your logic, why aren't homosexuals committing terrorist acts in MENA then?[/QUOTE] We're talking about radical Islamic terrorists here. Why did you suddenly bring in Trump supporters and homosexuals?

[QUOTE=yff;51607891]Do you really think they give a shit about what we think of them? I could actually bet real money that they just laugh between each other when they read "I'm disgusted" and similar responses to their acts. The only thing they want from us is complete submission and victory of Islam. If you really think what you're saying is true, then can you please explain to me how come there aren't any Trump supporters committing massacres, especially when coming out as a Trump supporter in liberal area is akin to coming out as homosexual in extremely conservative surrounding. I mean, it's taboo to admit it here on online forum, let alone in real life. Hell, following your logic, why aren't homosexuals committing terrorist acts in MENA then?[/QUOTE] just because those groups suffer from some form of oppression doesn't mean they're in the same socioeconomic position as the people who turn into radical islamists

[QUOTE=yff;51607891]Do you really think they give a shit about what we think of them? I could actually bet real money that they just laugh between each other when they read "I'm disgusted" and similar responses to their acts. The only thing they want from us is complete submission and victory of Islam. If you really think what you're saying is true, then can you please explain to me how come there aren't any Trump supporters committing massacres, especially when coming out as a Trump supporter in liberal area is akin to coming out as homosexual in extremely conservative surrounding. I mean, it's taboo to admit it here on online forum, let alone in real life. Hell, following your logic, why aren't homosexuals committing terrorist acts in MENA then? [editline]1st January 2017[/editline] I mean holy shit, if all it takes is few words for someone to start killing other people, maybe we shouldn't let those kind of people near us in the first place? My rights don't end where your feelings begin.[/QUOTE] First off i dont think Homosexuals dehumanize their opponents.

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;51607903]just because those groups suffer from some form of oppression doesn't mean they're in the same socioeconomic position as the people who turn into radical islamists[/QUOTE] This nonsense again. [url]http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/why-are-engineers-prone-becoming-jihadi-terrorists-middle-east-1530669[/url] [url]https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/european-journal-of-sociology-archives-europeennes-de-sociologie/article/div-classtitlewhy-are-there-so-many-engineers-among-islamic-radicalsdiv/91ED8BEFDE3793834667750B31575422[/url] [url]https://www.amazon.com/Engineers-Jihad-Connection-Extremism-Education/dp/0691145172?tag=interbusintim-21[/url] [QUOTE=Headhumpy;51607901]We're talking about radical Islamic terrorists here. Why did you suddenly bring in Trump supporters and LGBT issues?[/QUOTE] To prove a point. It doesn't matter who I mention really, here's the add-on to that message: [quote]I mean holy shit, if all it takes is few words for someone to start killing other people, maybe we shouldn't let those kind of people near us in the first place, and we shouldn't pander to them at all? My rights don't end where your feelings begin. [/quote]

[QUOTE=yff;51607777] How ignorant, say this shit when you have thousands of potential ticking timebombs moving into your neighborhood and when your friends and society are in danger.[/QUOTE] This sounds like a modern take on the accusations of your neighbors being communists. What is this? Fucking December 31 1966?

[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51607919]So fucking outraged at this you are, and when asked to provide your solution, it is what everybody is already doing. Great. Stop pushing an agenda based on our tragedy here.[/QUOTE] Yeah I'll believe that everyone is doing that when I actually start seeing that opinion become prevalent both in real life and online. I'm not buying it at the moment, and if in the end it's absolutely irrelevant what Merkel or anyone like her says if they don't enforce shit they say.

[QUOTE=yff;51607920]This nonsense again. [url]http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/why-are-engineers-prone-becoming-jihadi-terrorists-middle-east-1530669[/url] [url]https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/european-journal-of-sociology-archives-europeennes-de-sociologie/article/div-classtitlewhy-are-there-so-many-engineers-among-islamic-radicalsdiv/91ED8BEFDE3793834667750B31575422[/url] [url]https://www.amazon.com/Engineers-Jihad-Connection-Extremism-Education/dp/0691145172?tag=interbusintim-21[/url] To prove a point. It doesn't matter who I mention really, here's the add-on to that message:[/QUOTE] What point? I honestly don't get what you're trying to say here.

[QUOTE=Headhumpy;51607928]What point? I honestly don't get what you're trying to say here.[/QUOTE] That saying "boo don't dehumanize people who dehumanized you and are massacring you en masse" is ridiculous. [QUOTE=Trebgarta;51607932]You know you should stop and reconsider when the stuff you post to counter a person agrees with them. Also. Stop. Overall. In general.[/QUOTE] They propose, they don't confirm it. How about you stop being dishonest in your arguments just like the last time when I argued with you and you showed the map from 2006? And don't tell me what to do, stop responding to me and feeding the discussion if you don't want to discuss with me.

[QUOTE=yff;51607920]This nonsense again. [url]http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/why-are-engineers-prone-becoming-jihadi-terrorists-middle-east-1530669[/url] [url]https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/european-journal-of-sociology-archives-europeennes-de-sociologie/article/div-classtitlewhy-are-there-so-many-engineers-among-islamic-radicalsdiv/91ED8BEFDE3793834667750B31575422[/url] [url]https://www.amazon.com/Engineers-Jihad-Connection-Extremism-Education/dp/0691145172?tag=interbusintim-21[/url] To prove a point. It doesn't matter who I mention really, here's the add-on to that message:[/QUOTE] from your first source [quote] the researchers propose that this is the reason why there are so many engineers in terror organisations, and that although this pattern is seen in the Muslim world, it could easily be replicated in other countries under similar circumstances.[/quote] thanks i guess

[QUOTE=yff;51607944]That saying "boo don't dehumanize people who dehumanized you and are massacring you en masse" is ridiculous. They propose, they don't confirm it. How about you stop being dishonest in your arguments just like the last time when I argued with you and you showed the map from 2006? And don't tell me what to do, stop responding to me and feeding the discussion if you don't want to discuss with me.[/QUOTE] So throw our morals out the window to become killers like the terrorists?

[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51607932] [B]What everybody is already doing is scrutinising the immigrants that dont fit in in accordance to Western set of laws and values[/B] [/QUOTE] WHO DOES THIS Literally who does this. Everyone is afraid of the elephant in the room and keeps pandering to them. I keep seeing this shit in my country as well, where they mostly just "laugh it off" when something happens or play dumb. Isn't that called "bigotry of lowered expectations" anyway?

[QUOTE=yff;51607944]That saying "boo don't dehumanize people who dehumanized you and are massacring you en masse" is ridiculous. They propose, they don't confirm it. How about you stop being dishonest in your arguments just like the last time when I argued with you and you showed the map from 2006? And don't tell me what to do, stop responding to me and feeding the discussion if you don't want to discuss with me.[/QUOTE] If one of the problems you have with someone is that they dehumanize you, you're a hypocrite if you go and dehumanize them. It's not a difficult concept to grasp.

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;51607946]from your first source thanks i guess[/QUOTE] They [B]propose [/B]. [quote=Definition of propose] put forward (an idea or plan) for consideration or discussion by others. [/quote] You're welcome.

[QUOTE=yff;51607944]That saying "boo don't dehumanize people who dehumanized you and are massacring you en masse" is ridiculous. They propose, they don't confirm it. How about you stop being dishonest in your arguments just like the last time when I argued with you and you showed the map from 2006? And don't tell me what to do, stop responding to me and feeding the discussion if you don't want to discuss with me.[/QUOTE] How is it ridiculous? If you're going to going to use the exact same tactics that they use to justify murder to justify your own murder, what ground do you have to stand on when you say that you're right and they're wrong?

[QUOTE=yff;51607956]They [B]propose [/B]. You're welcome.[/QUOTE] a proposition coming from the same researchers you're oh so eager to believe, but only when they conform to your views

[QUOTE=geel9;51607954]If one of the problems you have with someone is that they dehumanize you, you're a hypocrite if you go and dehumanize them. It's not a difficult concept to grasp.[/QUOTE] You see the problem is that I don't care what they think of me and my acts, they absolutely have no right to dictate my way of life (given that I don't actually harm anyone), and nobody can forbid me from thinking that they're scum of the Earth. That's their problem to solve, not mine. [QUOTE=Zukriuchen;51607961]a proposition coming from the same researchers you're oh so eager to believe, but only when they conform to your views[/QUOTE] Oh hey nice description of yourself The point is that Islamists in general have loads of people who are well off and college educated joining them en masse. [QUOTE=Headhumpy;51607960]How is it ridiculous? If you're going to going to use the exact same tactics that they use to justify murder to justify your own murder, what ground do you have to stand on when you say that you're right and they're wrong?[/QUOTE] On the ground where I react to them when they actually affect my way of life? I couldn't care less what they do amongst themselves, but I do care when they try to enforce their load of crap on me. On what ground to the allies have to stand for standing up to Nazi Germany?

[QUOTE=yff;51607970]You see the problem is that I don't care what they think of me and my acts, they absolutely have no right to dictate my way of life (given that I don't actually harm anyone), and nobody can forbid me from thinking that they're scum of the Earth. That's their problem to solve, not mine.[/QUOTE] You're not speaking to islamists right now, you're speaking with us, and WE think you're a hypocrite.

[QUOTE=yff;51607970]Oh hey nice description of yourself The point is that Islamists in general have loads of people who are well off and college educated joining them en masse.[/QUOTE] don't see how it describes myself when i haven't denied that read the thread please

As this kind of news keeps coming out people keep getting more and more polarized. Someone here might have had a friend die. Let's respect that and hold off arguing and sweeping statements from [I]all[/I] perspectives.

why would religious islamists wear a santa suit? It seems that if that part of the story is true, it's more likely to be a Kurdish attack

[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51607969]Dont project. Germany has no pandering to outsiders, and all the problems of the legal system arent special for outsiders, they exist for everyone. This is an egalitarian country. And Germans try people before convicting them and give them attorneys. And successful convictions, rejections and deportations dont sell as news stories. Some reading for you: [url]http://www.dw.com/en/germany-turning-away-and-deporting-more-migrants/a-19461521[/url] [/quote] 1. [quote]Border control officers stopped some 13,324 people from entering the country up until the end of June, compared to 8,913 in 2015, the new Interior Ministry figures show.[/quote] That number is laughable when [B]million+[/B] people already came in. 2. You and I both know that the ones being deported are Balkan ones, I'm sure you've seen that previous thread on FP too. [quote=That same article]But a closer look at some of the entry denial figures - which have been broken down by country of origin and reason for denial - leads to other questions. For instance, they show that some 4,912 Syrians, Iraqis, Afghans were turned away this year at Germany's land borders, and in almost all cases the reason given was either the lack of a passport or the lack of a valid visa or residence permit.[/quote] That's like barely above third from those 13.5k people stopped at the beginning of the article. I would like to ask you to stop being so manipulative when discussing things with me. [quote]Then why did you post it if its extremely inconclusive How does it [I]confirm [/I]what you say then? It merely [I]proposes[/I].[/QUOTE] Because I'm positive that I remember correctly phenomena of highly educated and well off people joining these groups, I just grabbed the first result from Google. I'll continue this discussion tomorrow and cite better sources. As I said, it's almost 5 am here and FP is extremely slow, I'll respond to any new answers tomorrow.