Resturant Owner Defends "Muslims Get Out" Sign, Says there was not enough room for "Extremists" - Polidicks

I don't think you get that "not allowing it" doesn't make it go away and fining people for it only entrenches them in their views. You stamp out vile beliefs by giving those people the right to express them so they can be picked apart by their peers until they get a better ideology or die off. It is no surprise that there has been a resurgence in racism and xenophobia in places that have banned "hate speech"... like Germany.

Or... you end up with a bunch of people circlejerking over the same awful opinions, drawing more and more people into their circle of hate. Like Trump.

Trumpets support him because they feel like they're being stifled by "PC culture". What do you think literally making it illegal for them to express themselves would do?

[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51115951]I am happy in my "safe space" where discrimination against humans on baseless grounds such as race and religion isnt allowed[/QUOTE] Illegal in the US. Not the same as free speech. [QUOTE=Trebgarta;51115951]media networks cant incite hatred[/QUOTE] Also illegal in the US. Also not the same as free speech. I think most people can recognize a difference between businesses discriminating in who they serve and words on a billboard, or between calling for violence on national television and speaking an offensive opinion. Here in the US we recognize a difference between shouting 'fire' in a crowded theater and expressing unpopular thoughts: namely that while not all speech is protected free speech, the existence of some speech that crosses the line for reasons of direct threats to public safety does not give the government carte blanche to repress unpopular speech for less direct, more nebulous threats to social pleasantness. In contrast, your government has seen fit to ban not just hate speech, but speech that it considers insulting to the president, government, laws, religions, and other heads of state- the latest egregious example of which would be [URL="https://www.hrw.org/news/2016/04/16/germany-prosecuting-satirist-mocks-freedom-speech"]a comedian facing five years in prison[/URL] for insulting the Turkish president. To consider that sort of overreach necessary to a functional society, with the alternative being to allow calling for ethnic cleansing on live TV, is a textbook false dichotomy. A sign in front of a store, with the proper legal framework to ensure that no discriminatory sentiment expressed by that sign can be put into practice, is harmless. The same cannot be said for the hyperbolic examples you gave. If you don't think you can have a just society without having the government step in and fine or imprison people for expressing the 'wrong' thoughts, then I suppose that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. However, considering that your country is currently experiencing [URL="https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/01/germany-attempts-to-ban-neo-nazi-party-amid-fears-over-rising-racist-attacks"]a resurgence of neo-Nazis[/URL], I'm not sure I'll consider it a proven method for stamping out undesirable social movements.

[IMG]http://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-2f49dbfe3caff512a3a52453f6fc58d8-c?convert_to_webp=true[/IMG]

[QUOTE=uber.;51115426]Just because you no longer stamp "negro" on birth certificates doesn't mean the US has solved its racism problem. You speak in favor of absolute free speech, stating that society is solving that racism problem on its own, and anything else would be oppression, when the US is still known around the globe for its massive racism problem? I mean, for fuck's sake, you got Trump. You do see the irony here, right? edit: Also this whole "going away" argument is ridiculous. Nobody is saying that it will make racism go away. But making racism illegal might be a good thing, since it will at least give people a legal way to defend themselves. Great idea! Hey, if you someone calls you a nigger just break their jaw. Because vigilantism and violence always work out so well.[/QUOTE] Hey, just want to thank you for putting words in my mouth that go directly against what I said before. And I never said our racism is gone, but it has vastly improved and you can not deny that. And again, that inprovement isnt because of government laws restricting our first amendment. And again, a law against racism wont suddenly make racism go away or even improve it. All it will do is make racists feel like victims and fuel their cause. Racism in the US is a hugely overplayed issue. It still exists but not to the point of minorities not being hired or refused lodging in a hotel. Trump isnt a result of racism or bigotry in the US, its the result of a stale political spectrum. People are voting for this guy because theyre sick and tired of typical 2 party candidates that dont do what they say. Trump is such an outspoken moron that they feel like he can change the broken system. [editline]27th September 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Trebgarta;51115951]No you dont throw people in jail, you fine them. You can throw them in if they refuse to pay up. After much consideration, I have decided I am against free speech. If free speech means spreading hatred is allowed too, fuck free speech. I am happy in my "safe space" where discrimination against humans on baseless grounds such as race and religion isnt allowed, media networks cant incite hatred and war and spreading xenophobias is disallowed, as a SJW. If you want to suffer like this to promote your holy free speech dogma, you are as free as the bald eagle of yours. I am just feeling sorry for all the other Americans, such as religious or racial minorities, who have to suffer through those "mean words", but they should know better I guess, mean words dont make no harm. None at all.[/QUOTE] Free speech protects bigots and racists like the one in the article but it also protects people woth minority political opinions that may one day be the correct or majority opinion. If youre against free speech, then im sorry. I realize that racism is the price to pay for free speech, then ill take it. I like to think that the minds of reasonable people aren't you so easily swayed by the shitty things a small group of people have to say.

[QUOTE=catbarf;51115798]What is fining people for violating humans rights supposed to accomplish?[/QUOTE] Fixed that for you. [QUOTE=catbarf;51116111]In contrast, your government has seen fit to ban not just hate speech, but speech that it considers insulting to the president, government, laws, religions, and other heads of state[/QUOTE]Oh, you mean like these? [IMG]http://www.titanic-magazin.de/fileadmin/content/Heft/2016-08/seiten/seiten-titanic-2016-08-1.jpg[/IMG][t]http://www.titanic-magazin.de/fileadmin/_processed_/csm_01-U1-Titel-201004-Kruzifix_01_acd2062b79.jpg[/t][t]http://www.titanic-magazin.de/fileadmin/_migrated/pics/0611_titel_full.jpg[/t] And [URL="http://www.titanic-magazin.de/fileadmin/_migrated/pics/01-U1-Titel-201410-Merkel-nackt_03.jpg"]this[/URL] magnificent example. [QUOTE=catbarf;51116111] If you don't think you can have a just society without having the government step in and fine or imprison people for expressing the 'wrong' thoughts, then I suppose that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. However, considering that your country is currently experiencing [URL="https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/01/germany-attempts-to-ban-neo-nazi-party-amid-fears-over-rising-racist-attacks"]a resurgence of neo-Nazis[/URL], I'm not sure I'll consider it a proven method for stamping out undesirable social movements.[/QUOTE] Okay, first of all correlation doesn't equal causation. Second, "resurgence of neo-nazis". Maybe you should read the sources you cite: "The party [...] scored just 1.3% in 2013 national elections and has never crossed the 5% hurdle for entry into the national parliament." This topic pops up from time to time here and people like you bring up the same arguments. "If you don't think you can have a just society" turns more and more into a common sense fallacy, and "wrong" simply serves as a euphemism for hate speech and racism. [QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;51116185]Hey, just want to thank you for putting words in my mouth that go directly against what I said before. And I never said our racism is gone, but it has vastly improved and you can not deny that.[/QUOTE] And I never said that your racism is gone. I said nobody argues that it will make it literally go away.

My mother said it's not nice to be mean to people

[QUOTE=uber.;51116281]Fixed that for you. Oh, you mean like these? [IMG]http://www.titanic-magazin.de/fileadmin/content/Heft/2016-08/seiten/seiten-titanic-2016-08-1.jpg[/IMG][t]http://www.titanic-magazin.de/fileadmin/_processed_/csm_01-U1-Titel-201004-Kruzifix_01_acd2062b79.jpg[/t][t]http://www.titanic-magazin.de/fileadmin/_migrated/pics/0611_titel_full.jpg[/t] And [URL="http://www.titanic-magazin.de/fileadmin/_migrated/pics/01-U1-Titel-201410-Merkel-nackt_03.jpg"]this[/URL] magnificent example. Okay, first of all correlation doesn't equal causation. Second, "resurgence of neo-nazis". Maybe you should read the sources you cite: "The party [...] scored just 1.3% in 2013 national elections and has never crossed the 5% hurdle for entry into the national parliament." This topic pops up from time to time here and people like you bring up the same arguments. "If you don't think you can have a just society" turns more and more into a common sense fallacy, and "wrong" simply serves as a euphemism for hate speech and racism. And I never said that your racism is gone. I said nobody argues that it will make it literally go away.[/QUOTE] Honestly, all I see with the pictures you posted is that they are tude and should be censored because of it. Its a pretty childish society you live in if you think your people cant handle that.

[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51117071]Our people CAN handle it???? These are the examples of it? It is literally what you posted: [editline]27th September 2016[/editline] I am sorry that this country cant handle Trump-tier slander and libel, so I dont have many examples of that. I am sorry, if this would be what it takes to satisfy you.[/QUOTE] Wasnt me that posted that by the way. You have a bad record of misquoting me. So if your people can handle that then why should speech be restricted? So peoples feelings dont get hurt. Thats shitty reasoning.

[QUOTE=Lambeth;51108039]The majority of muslims are not extremists. You can't paint 1.7 billion people as terrorists.[/QUOTE] I agree, at the same time he is free to run his business as he pleases. This is a minor detail that all the SJW Extremists/PC/Religion apologists seem to forget.

[QUOTE=hijacker;51117297]I agree, at the same time he is free to run his business as he pleases. This is a minor detail that all the SJW Extremists/PC/Religion apologists seem to forget.[/QUOTE] You are free to run your business as you please, within reason. After the whole civil rights movement, laws were passed to prevent people from not providing service based on race or religion.

[QUOTE=hijacker;51117297]I agree, at the same time he is free to run his business as he pleases. This is a minor detail that all the SJW Extremists/PC/Religion apologists seem to forget.[/QUOTE] No he can't? Just cause it's his business doesn't mean he can just do whatever the heck he wants. [quote]This is a minor detail that all the SJW Extremists/PC/Religion apologists seem to forget.[/quote] [quote]...SJW Extremists/PC/Religion apologists...[/quote] lol just stop

That is a brilliant name, by the way. 'hijacker'. Because you've highjacked this thread to post absolute complete nonsense that only shows you are completely bigoted and foolish.

The condemnation seems stronger for this guy than it is for a muslim extremist because "they are a minority, can't tar them all with the same brush etc etc, which is how every thread mentioning terrorism goes eventually. Yeah this guy is a cunt but he is a minority, I bet he can't even spell "extremist" he hasn't killed maimed or threatened anyone, he's probably done himself more harm.

[QUOTE=hijacker;51117297]I agree, at the same time he is free to run his business as he pleases. This is a minor detail that all the SJW Extremists/PC/Religion apologists seem to forget.[/QUOTE] You can deny someone service if theyre an asshole, if you think theyre not going to pay, but you cant deny service because of someones race. You can deny service for almost any reason, except for race.

[QUOTE=karlosfandango;51118473]The condemnation seems stronger for this guy than it is for a muslim extremist because "they are a minority, can't tar them all with the same brush etc etc, which is how every thread mentioning terrorism goes eventually. Yeah this guy is a cunt but he is a minority, I bet he can't even spell "extremist" he hasn't killed maimed or threatened anyone, he's probably done himself more harm.[/QUOTE] So if I open a shop with a "no nigger" policy its ok as long as I don't physically hurt anyone.

[QUOTE=RainbowStalin;51118567]So if I open a shop with a "no nigger" policy its ok as long as I don't physically hurt anyone.[/QUOTE] Nope, because thats illegal. If you put a sign out front that says "i hate niggers", then thats fine from a legal standpoint. His point was that both groups are shitty but people like this get more attention that terrorists do. Completely anecdotal and apples to oranges.

I really don't see what's so hard to understand about this Putting out a "muslims get out" sign and refusing to serve muslims = illegal Putting out a "muslims get out" sign and [b]still serving muslims[/b] = [b]legal[/b] It's not fucking hard, and it shouldn't change. There's no actual discrimination beyond him sharing his personal opinion.

[QUOTE=LTJGPliskin;51108072][IMG]https://www.ushmm.org/lcmedia/artifact/wlc/image/1998gunv.jpg[/IMG] This is an old sign from Germany. You know what it says? "Jews are not wanted here."[/QUOTE] or this [t]http://nationalbrownberets.com/LaCausa/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/racism.jpg[/t]

and it isn't always about skin color [img]http://i.imgur.com/FpKDXCF.jpg[/img] just feel like i should mention that

[QUOTE=geel9;51119822]I really don't see what's so hard to understand about this Putting out a "muslims get out" sign and refusing to serve muslims = illegal Putting out a "muslims get out" sign and [b]still serving muslims[/b] = [b]legal[/b] It's not fucking hard, and it shouldn't change. There's no actual discrimination beyond him sharing his personal opinion.[/QUOTE] legal or not, shouldn't he at least expect some repercussions for doing something offensive enough for it's comparable to post-WW1 Germany?

[QUOTE=IAreLegend;51120009]legal or not, shouldn't he at least expect some repercussions for doing something offensive enough for it's comparable to post-WW1 Germany?[/QUOTE] He is facing repercussions: people don't like him and don't want to give his business their patronage.

[QUOTE=IAreLegend;51120009]legal or not, shouldn't he at least expect some repercussions for doing something offensive enough for it's comparable to post-WW1 Germany?[/QUOTE] What kind of repercussions would you want inflicted on him? I'm curious. [sp]I can't seem to write this post in a way that doesn't seem extremely smug, sorry.[/sp]

[QUOTE=IcyTruth;51120609]What kind of repercussions would you want inflicted on him? I'm curious. [sp]I can't seem to write this post in a way that doesn't seem extremely smug, sorry.[/sp][/QUOTE] Being asked to take the sign down by legal authorities and threatened to be fined if refusing to do so? [editline]28th September 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=geel9;51120312]He is facing repercussions: people don't like him and don't want to give his business their patronage.[/QUOTE] And what if he doesn't face those repercussions? There's no gurantee that he will.

[QUOTE=MrJazzy;51120651]Being asked to take the sign down by legal authorities and threatened to be fined if refusing to do so? [editline]28th September 2016[/editline] And what if he doesn't face those repercussions? There's no gurantee that he will.[/QUOTE] Tough shit?

[QUOTE=geel9;51120816]Tough shit?[/QUOTE] Cool.

I constantly receive bs from atheists, but that's perfectly okay for whatever reason as it's "enlightening me the truth" The right to protest should include protesting others' religions, thus I defend this guy's choice of not wanting to service people of muslim belief.

No room for extremists but he still works there

[QUOTE=Tools;51120953]I constantly receive bs from atheists, but that's perfectly okay for whatever reason as it's "enlightening me the truth" The right to protest should include protesting others' religions, thus I defend this guy's choice of not wanting to service people of muslim belief.[/QUOTE] So you defend the right to discrimination against people just because of their religious beliefs? Which sets a very dangerous precedent that could go well beyond that? I mean, for some extreme Christians since gay people are against their religious beliefs, they can bar them. When does this 'stop?' Do you not think that's hypocritical as all hell considering that atheists apparently give you shit all the time?