Mohamed Morsi Declared Winner: Muslim Brotherhood Candidate Claims Win in Egyptian Presidential Runo - Polidicks

[QUOTE=AtomicWaffle;36477047]The problem isn't Islam, it is Islamism. They see religion and politics as being invariably intertwined. That IS a problem for anyone who isn't muslim, and muslims who believe that state and religion should stay separate.[/QUOTE] And women. Abrahamic religions are very oppressive towards women.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36477184]And women. Abrahamic religions are very oppressive towards women.[/QUOTE] Or that's what Hollywood and Fox news fed you till you lost the ability to research and formulate your own opinion. Religions don't oppress people, people do.

[QUOTE=voodooattack;36477458]Or that's what Hollywood and Fox news fed you till you lost the ability to research and formulate your own opinion. Religions don't oppress people, people do.[/QUOTE] Except the rules of Islam specifically state that women are of less value than men, and states that women are allowed to be beaten by their husbands. Maybe it is you who should read the Qu'ran and Bible.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36477481]Except the rules of Islam specifically state that women are of less value than men, and states that women are allowed to be beaten by their husbands. Maybe it is you who should read the Qu'ran and Bible.[/QUOTE] There's nothing that says people that actively follow religions can't interpret holy books written centuries ago in ways that are compatible with modern society. Sorry to burst your childish atheism bubble but this is really a case of people being people, not how religion is evil.

[QUOTE=RearAdmiral;36477558]There's nothing that says people that actively follow religions can't interpret holy books written centuries ago in ways that are compatible with modern society. Sorry to burst your childish atheism bubble but this is really a case of people being people, not how religion is evil.[/QUOTE] No, you can't interpret "women are worth less than men". There is absolutely no way. There is a reason why countries like Saudi Arabia are fucked up for women, they follow Islam. Islam inherently subjugates women. There is a reason we don't follow Mosaic or Sharia Law in the United States, religious doctrine is totally fucked up and shouldn't be given as a standard for any healthy, sane human being to follow. [editline]25th June 2012[/editline] Please guys, tell me how I am supposed to interpret these verses from the Qu'ran? 4:15 As for those of your women who are guilty of lewdness, call to witness four of you against them. And if they testify (to the truth of the allegation) then confine them to the houses until death take them or (until) Allah appoint for them a way (through new legislation). 4:11 Allah chargeth you concerning (the provision for) your children: to the male the equivalent of the portion of two females, 2:228 ...(women) have rights similar to those (of men) over them in kindness, and men are a degree above them. Allah is Mighty, Wise. 4:34 Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. 4:20 And if ye wish to exchange one wife for another and ye have given unto one of them a sum of money (however great), take nothing from it. Would ye take it by the way of calumny and open wrong ? 24:31 And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest, and to display of their adornment only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils over their bosoms, and not to reveal their adornment save to their own husbands or fathers or husbands' fathers, or their sons or their husbands' sons, or their brothers or their brothers' sons or sisters' sons, or their women, or their slaves, or male attendants who lack vigour, or children who know naught of women's nakedness. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And turn unto Allah together, O believers, in order that ye may succeed. 33:59 O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them (when they go abroad). That will be better, so that they may be recognised and not annoyed. Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.

Welp, Egypt's screwed

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36477595]No, you can't interpret "women are worth less than men". There is absolutely no way. There is a reason why countries like Saudi Arabia are fucked up for women, they follow Islam. Islam inherently subjugates women. There is a reason we don't follow Mosaic or Sharia Law in the United States, religious doctrine is totally fucked up and shouldn't be given as a standard for any healthy, sane human being to follow.[/QUOTE] And yet people still manage it. Believe it or not I've met Christians that don't stone rebellious children to death (Deuteronomy 21:18-21), eat shellfish (Leviticus 11:11:) and still shave at least every so often (Leviticus 19:27-8). People are able to put aside all the stupid, outdated shit in holy texts and still turn religion into something positive and complimentary in their lives, however as soon as a few nutjobs, sheeple and idiots do something dumb and use religion to justify it everyone jumps on the bandwagon. Edit: Oh hey if we're going to randomly google quotes from the Quran then have these: “God is kind and likes kindness in all things.“ ——— Rihadh us-Saleheen, Volume 1:633. “Do not be people without minds of your own, saying that if others treat you well you will treat them well and that if they do wrong you will do wrong. But (instead) accustom yourselves to do good if people do good and not to do wrong if they do evil.” ——— Prophet Muhammad (s) as reported in Al-Tirmidhi, Hadith 1325. "Hold to forgiveness; command what is right; But turn away from the ignorant. " [Quran 7:199] But as for those who believed and did righteous deeds, He will give them in full their rewards, and Allah does not like the wrongdoers. (Aali-'Imraan: 57)

[QUOTE=RearAdmiral;36477701]And yet people still manage it. Believe it or not I've met Christians that don't stone rebellious children to death (Deuteronomy 21:18-21), eat shellfish (Leviticus 11:11:) and still shave at least every so often (Leviticus 19:27-8). People are able to put aside all the stupid, outdated shit in holy texts and still turn religion into something positive and complimentary in their lives, however as soon as a few nutjobs, sheeple and idiots do something dumb and use religion to justify it everyone jumps on the bandwagon.[/QUOTE] A few nutjobs? Really? It isn't just "a few bad apples". Theocracy is a real thing. Gay marriage is still illegal in the United States. These religious assholes aren't just a fucking minority, they hold a great deal of sway over political systems across the world. You can't say "Oh, the rules of Islam aren't that bad!" because they fucking are. I don't care about the Muslim who chooses to ignore their scripture, they can do whatever the fuck they please. I care about the guy who actually listens to the words of their fantasy god and decides to impose that violent standard on other human beings.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36477184]And women. Abrahamic religions are very oppressive towards women.[/QUOTE] Christianity is oppressive to women? [editline]24th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=yawmwen;36477736]A few nutjobs? Really? It isn't just "a few bad apples". Theocracy is a real thing. [B]Gay marriage is still illegal in the United States.[/B] These religious assholes aren't just a fucking minority, they hold a great deal of sway over political systems across the world. [/QUOTE] Not across the board and it's gaining ground everywhere to be legalized, if even slowly.

I make this clear: Anyone who follows the rules of Islam as set out in the Qu'ran is an ignorant piece of shit. Anyone who follows the rules of Christianity/Judaism as outlined in the Bible and Torah is an ignorant piece of shit. Anyone who calls themselves a Muslim, Christian, or Jew, but does not subscribe to the ideals of their holy book is someone that I have no beef with. I am completely indifferent to the "progressive theist". I am NOT indifferent to the religious doctrine.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36477736]You can't say "Oh, the rules of Islam aren't that bad!" because they fucking are. I don't care about the Muslim who chooses to ignore their scripture, they can do whatever the fuck they please. [b]I care about the guy who actually listens to the words of their fantasy god and decides to impose that violent standard on other human beings.[/b][/QUOTE] This I can agree with one hundred per cent, but really you should be directing your anger at those kinds of people, not the concept of religion in general. There's also the fact that a lot of holy books are often pieced together over decades or even centuries, meaning they're either inconsistent or downright contradictory. Good examples are the Old and New Testament, which saw God go from his vengeful phase to his newer, more P.C. loving phase. They're both depicted in christianity even though the concept of "Love thy neighbor" didn't really come into it in force until later but I still think that the virtues preached in things like the Bible that promote charity, harmony and enlightenment shouldn't be lumped in together with all the dumb shit that got in as well. If people decide to love and care for other people because the Bible told them to I think that's a good thing.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;36477756]Christianity is oppressive to women?[/quote] Leviticus 27:3 And thy estimation shall be of the male from twenty years old even unto sixty years old, even thy estimation shall be fifty shekels of silver, after the shekel of the sanctuary. 27:4 And if it be a female, then thy estimation shall be thirty shekels. 1 Corinthians 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. Titus 2:4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, 2:5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed. I could find more. [quote]Not across the board and it's gaining ground everywhere to be legalized, if even slowly.[/QUOTE] Still goes to show the level of control religious dogma has over society.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/GQyUg.jpg[/img] [t]http://animal.discovery.com/tv/a-list/creature-countdowns/loudmouths/images/howler-monkey.jpg[/t] I can't be the only one who saw this :v:

[QUOTE=RearAdmiral;36477795]This I can agree with one hundred per cent, but really you should be directing your anger at those kinds of people, not the concept of religion in general. There's also the fact that a lot of holy books are often pieced together over decades or even centuries, meaning they're either inconsistent or downright contradictory. Good examples are the Old and New Testament, which saw God go from his vengeful phase to his newer, more P.C. loving phase. They're both depicted in christianity even though the concept of "Love thy neighbor" didn't really come into it in force until later but I still think that the virtues preached in things like the Bible that promote charity, harmony and enlightenment shouldn't be lumped in together with all the dumb shit that got in as well. If people decide to love and care for other people because the Bible told them to I think that's a good thing.[/QUOTE] But when the entire doctrine of the religion says to persecute certain groups of people, you can't be surprised when assholes decide to fucking follow it, and when other people are accepting of it. You can say that religion has just been a justification for violence and persecution, but that still makes it absolutely horrible. How many atrocities might we have avoided if people didn't have the verses outlined in religious scripture to give power and legitimacy to hateful action?

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36477824]Leviticus 27:3 And thy estimation shall be of the male from twenty years old even unto sixty years old, even thy estimation shall be fifty shekels of silver, after the shekel of the sanctuary. 27:4 And if it be a female, then thy estimation shall be thirty shekels.[/quote] I said Christianity. I'm asking for New Testament. [QUOTE=yawmwen;36477824]1 Corinthians 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.[/quote] Keeping silence in church (specific location, not everywhere) is hardly a claim of subjugation. [QUOTE=yawmwen;36477824]Titus 2:4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, 2:5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed. I could find more.[/quote] My god, teaching women to love! How horrible and subjugating that is! The only subjugation oriented part of this is the obedience to their husbands, which I will give but it's still hardly putting them in chains in the basements everywhere. [QUOTE=yawmwen;36477824]Still goes to show the level of control religious dogma has over society.[/QUOTE] You expect it to change over night? Even without religion, humanity is slow to change, especially in social ways. [editline]24th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=yawmwen;36477867]But when the entire doctrine of the religion says to persecute certain groups of people, you can't be surprised when assholes decide to fucking follow it, and when other people are accepting of it. You can say that religion has just been a justification for violence and persecution, but that still makes it absolutely horrible. How many atrocities might we have avoided if people didn't have the verses outlined in religious scripture to give power and legitimacy to hateful action?[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure people will find some other reason for such atrocities. Gulags, the Holocaust, the slaughtering of Genghis Khan, Pol Pot, Saddam's gassings - you don't have to find a religious reason for persecution and violence. You're making it out that the entire world is fucked up solely due to religion.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36477867]But when the entire doctrine of the religion says to persecute certain groups of people, you can't be surprised when assholes decide to fucking follow it, and when other people are accepting of it. You can say that religion has just been a justification for violence and persecution, but that still makes it absolutely horrible. How many atrocities might we have avoided if people didn't have the verses outlined in religious scripture to give power and legitimacy to hateful action?[/QUOTE] People will always find an excuse to blow the fuck up out of other people. I'm fairly sure all kinds of Ethnic cleansing, war crimes and other atrocities happen without any real kind of religious stimulus. The main one that comes to mind involves an austrian and Godwin's law.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;36477871]I said Christianity. I'm asking for New Testament.[/quote] Old testament is very valid to Christianity. Considering people still cite Leviticus 18/20 as being against homosexuality, and the books of the old testament are still tacked onto the bible, and the fact Jesus specifically said the old testament is still valid means that Leviticus is relevant. [quote]Keeping silence in church (specific location, not everywhere) is hardly a claim of subjugation.[/quote] The fact that it says specifically women need to be silent, and to stay obedient in church is the problem. It doesn't say "men and women be silent and obedient in church", it is clearly meant only for women. More: 1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. 11:7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. 11:8 For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man. 11:9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels. Ephesians 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. 1 Timothy 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Is that enough yet? [quote]You expect it to change over night?[/QUOTE] You're not quite getting the point. [editline]25th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=RearAdmiral;36477892]People will always find an excuse to blow the fuck up out of other people. I'm fairly sure all kinds of Ethnic cleansing, war crimes and other atrocities happen without any real kind of religious stimulus. The main one that comes to mind involves an austrian and Godwin's law.[/QUOTE] The Holocaust was justified by Christianity. In case you didn't know, Christians have a history of not liking Jews very much. Anti-Semitism wasn't started by Hitler, it has a very rich heritage dating back to Christians being pissed about the whole crucifixion thing they blame on the Jews. There have been apartheids, ethnic cleansings, and genocides that have taken place without the presence of religion. However, one needs to look no farther than Sudan, Uganda, or Saudi Arabia to see religious violence and persecution still in place. [editline]25th June 2012[/editline] And I'm not saying religion is the root of all evil. However, religion is the root of A LOT of evil. Any book or ideology that espouses violence and persecution is NOT OK to me. I pick on religion because there are billions of theists in the world who claim to follow a scripture that dictates violence and persecution.

If you can't understand other cultures then you're the ignorant one. Just because you have certain "standards" of what's socially acceptable and what is not does not mean that you can bash other cultures for holding their own. I'll go over this quickly: [I]4:15 As for those of your women who are guilty of lewdness, call to witness four of you against them. And if they testify (to the truth of the allegation) then confine them to the houses until death take them or (until) Allah appoint for them a way (through new legislation). [/I] They need [B]four[/B] eye witnesses who caught them in the act to charge [B]both parties[/B] with adultery, do you realize how difficult that criteria is to achieve? And if they don't confess it, it never happened. [I]4:11 Allah chargeth you concerning (the provision for) your children: to the male the equivalent of the portion of two females,[/I] Yeah, that's only about inheritance, and women get less because the man has to provide for everything else. Think of it as a mechanism to redistribute wealth in a saturated society. [I]2:228 ...(women) have rights similar to those (of men) over them in kindness, and men are a degree above them. Allah is Mighty, Wise. 4:34 Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them.[/I] That is so demeaning, but wait, he didn't mention drinking 2 six packs and beating the wife to death with a broken beer bottle, did he? If the wife thinks her husband is not just or that she didn't like him, she can ask for a divorce, if he doesn't agree to it and continue abusing her, then there's always conditioned divorce. The authorities can grant that at any court of law. Like I said, our cultures differ. [I]4:20 And if ye wish to exchange one wife for another and ye have given unto one of them a sum of money (however great), take nothing from it. Would ye take it by the way of calumny and open wrong ?[/I] So wait, Islam gives the wife ALL of the money? Man, that's just wrong. I suppose you're upset with the word 'exchange'? It doesn't translate the same. [I] 24:31 And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest, and to display of their adornment only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils over their bosoms, and not to reveal their adornment save to their own husbands or fathers or husbands' fathers, or their sons or their husbands' sons, or their brothers or their brothers' sons or sisters' sons, or their women, or their slaves, or male attendants who lack vigour, or children who know naught of women's nakedness. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And turn unto Allah together, O believers, in order that ye may succeed.[/I] [I]33:59 O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them (when they go abroad). That will be better, so that they may be recognised and not annoyed. Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful. [/I] Notice the very first words of both verses? If you observe closely, it says "tell", not "command". Huge difference in such a context, right? Not to mention that there are Muslims who interpret that wrong, are you both alike in that department? Basically, this dress code was given back then to distinguish free women from slaves (and let's not get into this one, your ancestors had their share of those in relatively modern times by comparison), and "those with the red flags - ذوات الرايات الحمر" (aka whores back then), the red flags would wear leg ornaments that made a sound as they walked, and flaunt their "cleavage" so to say at men, and they had their own tents outside of cities. I wonder why those weren't killed on the spot if Islam was as evil as you depict it. If you have any questions you can PM me. Now, can we stop talking about religions and get back to politics please?

[QUOTE=BoysLightUp;36468598]Is he the Muslim Brotherhood candidate? E: Confirmed yes, which is concerning for secularism and religious freedom in Egypt. It's a bitter irony to think that the presidential run-off came down to the two candidates which least represented the youth-led revolution which gave them the chance to run for presidency.[/QUOTE] I have a friend that has connections to various intelligence agencies, he tells me that they're pretty mild these days despite there more radical origin.

[QUOTE=voodooattack;36478810]If you can't understand other cultures then you're the ignorant one. Just because you have certain "standards" of what's socially acceptable and what is not does not mean that you can bash other cultures for holding their own. [/QUOTE] When the culture advocates subjugation of other human beings, yes I can. I can bash whatever stupid culture I want.

yawmwen,[B] just wow[/B]. Have you REALLY ever read the quran/bible instead of just reciting from some site? I have myself found that translations [B]can vary alot. The arabic language in the quran is a very complicated one, and is really hard (if not impossible) to directly translate. [/B] The translations that we read in the internet are just interpretations from different scholars e.g [QUOTE]33:59 O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them (when they go abroad). That will be better, so that they may be recognised and not annoyed. Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.[/QUOTE] Is translated differently by different scholars. Some translations; [QUOTE]Sahih International: O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to bring down over themselves [part] of their outer garments. That is more suitable that they will be known and not be abused. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful. Pickthall: O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them (when they go abroad). That will be better, so that they may be recognised and not annoyed. Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful. Yusuf Ali: O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad): that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. Shakir: O Prophet! say to your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers that they let down upon them their over-garments; this will be more proper, that they may be known, and thus they will not be given trouble; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. Muhammad Sarwar: Prophet, tell your wives, daughters, and the wives of the believers to cover their bosoms and breasts. This will make them distinguishable from others and protect them from being annoyed. God is All-forgiving and All-merciful. Mohsin Khan: O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e.screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allah is Ever Oft*Forgiving, Most Merciful. Arberry: O Prophet, say to thy wives and daughters and the believing women, that they draw their veils close to them; so it is likelier they will be known, and not hurt. God is All-forgiving, All-compassionate.[/QUOTE] What I am picking up from this sura, is that women should cover their bodies so that they will not be victims of other mens sexual desires. You can hear alot in the news about women dressing up as skanks and ending up raped. it's a hard world, I guess it was a much harder time for women at the time that the quran was written the veil is like a protection for them so men won't see their breasts and feel aroused so that they will (probably) take action

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36478937]When the culture advocates subjugation of other human beings, yes I can. I can bash whatever stupid culture I want.[/QUOTE] Subjugation you say? I'll just leave this here then: [url=http://www.google.com/search?q=iraq+abuse&hl=en&prmd=imvns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=iQnoT6-bKO6Q4gT__ojYAQ&ved=0CFEQ_AUoAQ&biw=1600&bih=768&sei=kAnoT_jqIczntQaV17W9AQ]http://www.google.com/search?q=iraq+abuse[/url]

[QUOTE=voodooattack;36479021]Subjugation you say? I'll just leave this here then: [URL]http://www.google.com/search?q=iraq+abuse[/URL][/QUOTE] Great job justifying the sexist attitudes of some delusional desert warlord by posting some abuse done by other people(that I also do not agree with). "My subjugation of women is alright because other people subjugate people." [editline]25th June 2012[/editline] You are all dodging the point. I don't give a fuck [i]why[/i] Allah said to fucking cover women like livestock, I take issue with the fact that your imaginary god told you to cover women like livestock. You guys still haven't come up with a rebuttal to Mohammed's most telling verse about his fucked up attitude towards women where he said "men are better than women". He outright says it, and yet you guys still claim that women are respected as men in Muslim society?

Doesn't matter who became president. The military will run the country.

It's always upsetting news to read about religious people being elected into positions of power.

Also: [QUOTE=voodooattack;36478810] They need [B]four[/B] eye witnesses who caught them in the act to charge [B]both parties[/B] with adultery, do you realize how difficult that criteria is to achieve? And if they don't confess it, it never happened.[/QUOTE] The husband is the only witness needed. He just needs to swear an oath 4 times for it to count as 4 witnesses. This is also stated in the Qu'ran. A husband can convict his wife of adultery(a capital offense as per Islam), with no evidence but his word. That's not even getting into the fact that a woman having sex is considered a capital offense in the first place.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36479079]Great job justifying the sexist attitudes of some delusional desert warlord by posting some abuse done by other people(that I also do not agree with). "My subjugation of women is alright because other people subjugate people."[/QUOTE] Oh, I know you wouldn't condone such an act. But that's what some people do when given the chance and think there are no rules. And suddenly your bashing of religion is quite because that's what keeps most people in check. That includes the extremists, who are no different than those in the pictures, they just interpret religion the way [B]they[/B] want, just to bend the rules and achieve their own sick ends. Religion is a two sided blade, it can uplift man or destroy him, I prefer the former. [editline]25th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=yawmwen;36479134]Also: The husband is the only witness needed. He just needs to swear an oath 4 times for it to count as 4 witnesses. This is also stated in the Qu'ran. A husband can convict his wife of adultery(a capital offense as per Islam), with no evidence but his word. That's not even getting into the fact that a woman having sex is considered a capital offense in the first place.[/QUOTE] Give me a single verse that says that and I'll abandon my religion right now.

[QUOTE=voodooattack;36479161] Give me a single verse that says that and I'll abandon my religion right now.[/QUOTE] 24:6 Sahih International Translation And those who accuse their wives [of adultery] and have no witnesses except themselves - then the witness of one of them [shall be] four testimonies [swearing] by Allah that indeed, he is of the truthful. Muhsin Khan Translation And for those who accuse their wives, but have no witnesses except themselves, let the testimony of one of them be four testimonies (i.e. testifies four times) by Allah that he is one of those who speak the truth. Pickthall Translation As for those who accuse their wives but have no witnesses except themselves; let the testimony of one of them be four testimonies, (swearing) by Allah that he is of those who speak the truth; Yusuf Ali Translation And for those who launch a charge against their spouses, and have (in support) no evidence but their own,- their solitary evidence (can be received) if they bear witness four times (with an oath) by Allah that they are solemnly telling the truth;

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36479208]24:6 Sahih International Translation And those who accuse their wives [of adultery] and have no witnesses except themselves - then the witness of one of them [shall be] four testimonies [swearing] by Allah that indeed, he is of the truthful. Muhsin Khan Translation And for those who accuse their wives, but have no witnesses except themselves, let the testimony of one of them be four testimonies (i.e. testifies four times) by Allah that he is one of those who speak the truth. Pickthall Translation As for those who accuse their wives but have no witnesses except themselves; let the testimony of one of them be four testimonies, (swearing) by Allah that he is of those who speak the truth; Yusuf Ali Translation And for those who launch a charge against their spouses, and have (in support) no evidence but their own,- their solitary evidence (can be received) if they bear witness four times (with an oath) by Allah that they are solemnly telling the truth;[/QUOTE] You apparently forgot the rest: As for those who accuse their wives but have no witnesses except themselves; let the testimony of one of them be four testimonies, (swearing) by Allah that he is of those who speak the truth; (6) And yet a fifth, invoking the curse of Allah on him if he is of those who lie. (7) [B]And it shall avert the punishment from her if she bear witness before Allah four times that the thing he saith is indeed false[/B], (8) And a fifth (time) that the wrath of Allah be upon her if he speaketh truth. (9) And had it not been for the grace of Allah and His mercy unto you, and that Allah is Clement, Wise, (ye had been undone). (10)

[QUOTE=voodooattack;36479249]You apparently forgot the rest: As for those who accuse their wives but have no witnesses except themselves; let the testimony of one of them be four testimonies, (swearing) by Allah that he is of those who speak the truth; (6) And yet a fifth, invoking the curse of Allah on him if he is of those who lie. (7) [B]And it shall avert the punishment from her if she bear witness before Allah four times that the thing he saith is indeed false[/B], (8) And a fifth (time) that the wrath of Allah be upon her if he speaketh truth. (9) And had it not been for the grace of Allah and His mercy unto you, and that Allah is Clement, Wise, (ye had been undone). (10)[/QUOTE] So what happens in a case where a man murders a woman and claims it was done while she was adulterous, declares 4 times her guilt so that the crime is mitigated to Tazir? [editline]25th June 2012[/editline] The woman is in no position to declare her innocence while dead. [editline]25th June 2012[/editline] Also, what is god's problem with female witnesses? 2 females are worth 1 male as far as testimony goes.