Mike Huckabee Wishes he was a female during high school PE
67 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Wii60;47864224]i don't see why people rate this dumb
this episode destroys the mentality huckabee has towards trans[/QUOTE]
Using a comedy show that relies on crass humor and swearing with some half-assed """social commentary""" to back up your argument is a shit idea no matter what side you're on. Same reason I hate it when people post Carlin or Louis CK as an argument. They're comedians, not news articles.
[QUOTE=Wii60;47864224]i don't see why people rate this dumb
this south park episode destroys the mentality huckabee has towards trans[/QUOTE]
imagine linking to south park in any context during a discussion of any sort
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;47863378]Oppressed minority? How is that oppression? If you have thirty 13 year old girls changing for gym and then you say, "Okay we have a boy who identifies as a girl and we're going to let him change with them." What have you just done? You've made a lot of girls really self-conscious and uncomfortable. You can't sacrifice the mental health of many for the health of one. I'm not saying I don't value trans individuals, don't get me wrong, it just isn't right to force other people to handle that situation who might not be okay with it.
There is no oppression going on. We aren't segregating them to their own schools. It's just a difficult situation with no clear solutions. Either way someone loses, and there will never be a budget to build and maintain separate facilities for such a small minority (which still wouldn't please everyone).[/QUOTE]
Might I point out that you could use the same argument for banning gays from public showers, but you wouldn't use that argument today, would you? Of course not, at this point in our society (in most places) it's unacceptable to be homophobic. While you are allowed to define your own morals. This particular point in time is like the 90's was for gay people, you know, when being gay was just starting to become normal for people, yet many people still had the attitude towards homosexuality as decades previous, and that attitude was still somewhat acceptable. Comics could still say faggot as their favorite insult, politicians could get away with hate rants, shit like that. We look at that period of time as our awkward middle school years of morphing into a (somewhat) tolerant (somewhat) mature society.
The thing is, people would only feel uncomfortable around someone who is gay is if they didn't understand them, or don't understand what it is to be gay (here in America, and sadly many other places, people get the idea that everyone who's gay has an infinite sex drive and is obsessed with sex)
Now, you MUST understand this: in society's current state, most people don't even understand what being transgendered even [I]is.[/I] Why do you think many people are uncomfortable with it? Trans people are a super minority, most people have not, and probably will not ever get to know a transgendered person (at least one who's out). Most of the trans people depicted or mentioned in popular fiction are throwaway jokes, how can you say that the only reason people feel uncomfortable around trans people isn't that they're unfamiliar with them?
If that's the case, why should we make laws which preserve the status quo? Why continue the cycle? What is the point? What's the goal?
In either case, you mentioned that it is better to make 1 person uncomfortable by making them showing with their respective biological gender, than it would be to make 30 girls uncomfortable by making them shower with a transgender. You're leaving out the fact that about 25 of them aren't even aware of this person's existence, 5 of them noticed, 3 don't care and 2 can go fuck themselves and find another shower if it matters that much to them. So your argument that we shouldn't cater to minorities, so that we can cater to these other minorities? I don't see the point. Should we also keep out normal gendered people who look like they have mismatched genders, simply because other people might get uncomfortable thinking that they had to share a shower with a transgender? Of course you don't, but my point is, what would be the difference?
Just want to remind everyone that this is the same guy who pardoned convicted rapists and murderers because he saw the light of Christ had touched them, and then they went out to rape and murder more people.
[QUOTE=Primigenes;47865011]Yeah if you really say your transgender to see some ass. You're gonna get crucified
Not because you said your trans but because its overall a creepy thing to do.[/QUOTE]
p. sure nobody actually does this
[QUOTE=Primigenes;47865011]Yeah if you really say your transgender to see some ass. You're gonna get crucified
Not because you said your trans but because its overall a creepy thing to do.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Kinglah Crab;47865123]p. sure nobody actually does this[/QUOTE]
Given the number of creeps out there I'm pretty sure someone does or would, and I sure wouldn't want to be the guy that has to decide whether he's dealing with a trans person or a creeper asking to use the other bathroom.
[QUOTE=catbarf;47865351]Given the number of creeps out there I'm pretty sure someone does or would, and I sure wouldn't want to be the guy that has to decide whether he's dealing with a trans person or a creeper asking to use the other bathroom.[/QUOTE]
Except you could use obvious contextual clues to determine if someone is legitimately trans or not? Like, if somebody were to pretend they're trans just to peep on people of another gender, they would have to go pretty far to be convincing - coming out to people, actually transitioning - basically, giving up their own gender to fraudulently present as another.
[QUOTE=Primigenes;47865011]Yeah if you really say your transgender to see some ass. You're gonna get crucified
Not because you said your trans but because its overall a creepy thing to do.[/QUOTE]
when does trying to force in sexual content have any context in a debate about trans people
[QUOTE=Rapscallion92;47863130]But he's right.
If you want to buy into the whole gender shenanigans that people would have you believe you could just call yourself genderfluid and say that you're now a girl every time you're gonna be showering.
Who the fuck are they to say otherwise, they're not inside your head, they don't know what it's like to be you.[/QUOTE]
because there's a difference between random bullshit and medical conditions
try going to a therapist and fake having schizophrenia to get meds and see how it works out for you bro. Or if you insist, is taking puberty blockers and estrogen worth looking at your female classmate's naughty bits?
[QUOTE=catbarf;47865351]Given the number of creeps out there I'm pretty sure someone does or would, and I sure wouldn't want to be the guy that has to decide whether he's dealing with a trans person or a creeper asking to use the other bathroom.[/QUOTE]
No one says that all you have to do to get into the opposite sex's bathroom is say, "I'm trans," and then you're instantly let in. No, you'd have to spend a considerable amount of time identifying as the other gender out in public, through means such as informing your family and friends of it, to dressing as that gender. Actual psychiatric verification of it. They'd have to make a legitimate attempt at transitioning, as do actual trans people do. Considering how a vast majority of society still sees trans people as illegitimate, mentally ill cross dressers, that would probably be years of bullying and harassment, in addition to altering your appearance and relationships to suit as such. I really doubt some kid is going to be willing to go through years of bullying and harassment, in addition to the work that needs to be done to get a diagnosis, all so they can see naked girls in the gym shower. Especially considering that instead of doing all that, he could just Google 'Naked women,' and get a similar result in a millisecond as opposed to years of work.
Bigotry ain't based on logic and truth. It's based on outdated worldviews and lack of empathy.
And well, transitioning takes lots of time and is overall something that you should do ONLY if you actually suffer from gender dysphoria. My girlfriend has talked to a girl who pretty much developed some form of schizophrenia (or some other heavy mental illness, not sure, but definitely it screwed her up big time) due to undergoing the gender reassignment operations, only because "Oh I wonder what it'd be like to be a girl!". She was also an asshole with a superiority complex and well... did TG art on DeviantArt. Oh, and you can't simply turn back from being trans, so you better be wise about it or you'll end up in quite a bad situation.
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;47863279]I guess you have a point, but the problem is that you can let a trans person use the women's changing room and make 30 girls uncomfortable. Or, you can keep them in the male changing room and maybe they're uncomfortable. I am all for LGBT rights, my roommate is even gay, but I just feel like this is where we cater to the minority a little too much.[/QUOTE]
Maybe the majority should be allowed to be made uncomfortable, until society as a whole gets its head out of its arse and regards it as normal. (People are always going to be uncomfortable with something until society adapts and accepts itas normal) I'm sure when segregation stopped being a majorly societally acceptable thing, people were uncomfortable with blacks sharing changing rooms with whites, at first. Until it became so normal it doesn't bother anyone but the most diehard bigots.
I really wanted to be a girl when I was in primary school, I just felt like the female body was so much better and pretty and I wished I was born female. Nowadays I still wish I was a girl but I have just accepted I'm a male and I can't change that so I just continue with life like usual. Maybe my extreme insecurity, depression and lack of relationships stem from this but eh, I can never be a real woman so I'm not going to get some surgery or hormone replacement so I can pretend to be. I just think to myself, what would Jesus do and try to do the right thing knowing I'll never fit in.
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;47863279]I guess you have a point, but the problem is that you can let a trans person use the women's changing room and make 30 girls uncomfortable. Or, you can keep them in the male changing room and maybe they're uncomfortable. I am all for LGBT rights, my roommate is even gay, but I just feel like this is where we cater to the minority a little too much.[/QUOTE]
If people didn't think like you do, those girls wouldn't be uncomfortable in the first place; Mr. "Treating Transgender People like We Treat Others is Catering."
It's shit like this that makes me scared to go to the women's toilets when I'm not in a massive group of friends.
[QUOTE=Jamsponge;47867091]It's shit like this that makes me scared to go to the women's toilets when I'm not in a massive group of friends.[/QUOTE]
Why? Does this happen SO often that it warrants you to be scared to go to the bathroom? (Not sure what point of view you're speaking from..)
[QUOTE=Steve Harvey;47867099]Why? Does this happen SO often that it warrants you to be scared to go to the bathroom? Is the spooky transgender going to break into your stall?[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure they are transgender themself.
[QUOTE=DestinyDstryr;47867122]I'm pretty sure they are transgender themself.[/QUOTE]
Maybe, but I can't tell what point of view they're speaking from.
"my roommate is even gay" is the new "I have a black friend"
So lets imagine a world where bigots get their way. A world where trans women are forced to use the male changing rooms/showers and trans men female changing room/showers. The hypothetical teenage pervert, instead of bring forced to wear womens clothes and start hormones, would instead just need to walk in the womens changing room exaclty how he is and just say he's a trans man. In that scenario you have made it easier for the hypothetical pervert to perv on women while at the same time treating a vulnerable minority like shit.
I wonder how much of this pervert nonsense is good-ole fashioned homophobia. It wasn't that long ago that the word pervert was synonymous with homosexual and transgender.
[QUOTE=Rapscallion92;47863180]Go through all what? Saying that they're genderfluid and then shouting down anyone who claims otherwise?
I'm not saying it happens at all, I'm saying that if you buy into the whole expanded gender list we have now then there is absolutely nothing you can say against it.[/QUOTE]
transgenderism is not the same thing as attention whore tumblr bullshit ffs
[QUOTE=Rapscallion92;47863130]But he's right.
If you want to buy into the whole gender shenanigans that people would have you believe you could just call yourself genderfluid and say that you're now a girl every time you're gonna be showering.
Who the fuck are they to say otherwise, they're not inside your head, they don't know what it's like to be you.[/QUOTE]
Except gender identity disorder is a medically recognized thing which we can identify in brains directly.
[QUOTE=EcksDee;47867469]Except gender identity disorder is a medically recognized thing which we can identify in brains directly.[/QUOTE]
Technically in the DSM-V it's been switched over to Gender Dysphoria, since it's that specific soul-crushing mental anguish and discomfort that's being treated. That's mostly just semantics though.
[editline]3rd June 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;47867493]Many of you want to be progressive and help pave the way towards equal treatment for trans individuals, but at the same time you want to antagonize me based on my opinion. Why should I agree with you and fight for trans rights when those who support it just want to hit me with smug one liners criticizing my opinion and character? Rocket debated with me and made his points from an objective viewpoint and didn't try to condescend me and I genuinely thought about the situation in a way I hadn't before. The reason I ended my commentary there is because I knew I was about to be antagonized simply for disagreeing with a different point of view.
I'll be honest, I've never met a trans individual, but perhaps instead of shitting on me you should enlighten me and have a genuine discussion with me about the problem. If you only want to feign support and the desire for equality in the future then fine, keep making snide posts at everyone that doesn't have the same exact viewpoints as you.[/QUOTE]
The suicide attempt rates for transgender youth are abysmally high thanks to the shitty opinions a majority of society holds; it's these horrible opinions that cause LGBT youth to be kicked out of their homes and be beaten up or even killed.
If you REALLY wanted to learn, you'd actually do some research using the internet you'RE CURRENTLY USING. It's not our obligation to teach the ignorant, especially when they go "hurr tell me WHY making life easier for LGBT youth isn't pandering to a minority."
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;47867536]Is raising awareness and educating the public not how problems are solved? By your standards, am I too stupid to be worth explaining this to? Do you see the double standard here? You want to support trans individuals but apparently a sense of mutual respect eludes you - ironically a lack of mutual respect is what creates problems like these in society in the first place. I respect your opinion, do I not deserve the same respect?[/QUOTE]
I haven't ran across anyone committing suicide because they suddenly had to share a bathroom with someone who was not born with the same reproductive organ as them. I think that feeling of slight discomfort that only exists due to societal presets is hardly worth fighting over as a good reason to be in opposition of something.
I wish I had been a female in PE because they get special treatment here. I got worse grades than other kids (all prepubescent) despite being two years younger than them and running more miles for not having a vagina.
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;47867493]Many of you want to be progressive and help pave the way towards equal treatment for trans individuals, but at the same time you want to antagonize me based on my opinion. Why should I agree with you and fight for trans rights when those who support it just want to hit me with smug one liners criticizing my opinion and character?[/QUOTE]
if you really base your entire opinion of a movement around the blunt responses you got from an internet forum against your poor and uneducated reasoning then it really doesn't sound like you were willing to support the movement in the first place
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;47863239]then we might as well just make every bathroom and changing room co-ed.[/QUOTE]
Tbh I've never really seen the reason for division anyway.
[QUOTE=thisispain;47867382]I wonder how much of this pervert nonsense is good-ole fashioned homophobia. It wasn't that long ago that the word pervert was synonymous with homosexual and transgender.[/QUOTE]
The religious right still has a hard time telling homosexuality apart from pedophilia so it's not a stretch to suggest that they can't tell the difference between transgenderism (is that a word?) and voyeurism.
Ironically, Huckabee is the very reason he is wrong: who would willingly endure ridicule from bigoted morons like him just for that?
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