Turkey not yet fit for EU, Germany’s Turkish origin minister says
95 replies, posted
You guys have to understand, Turkish education system tells children of 12 years old the tales of how brave Ottoman soldiers took care of the Armenian scum. It is no wonder you will meet Turks who deny the genocide, still numbers are fully exaggerated, 2 million is fuck shit ton too much to even say. English and Italian officials of the time report that there were 1,5 million Armenians living in Ottoman Empire as a whole. Historian erik-jan zürcher estimates that there were 600k to 800k Armenians killed.
Back to topic, I do believe Turkey should be allowed into EU as Turkey has the man power that EU needs while Turkey is in no state to be allowed into EU because of the human rights stuff.
[QUOTE=Sword and Paint;44536921]Two works, Armenia Genocide. Turkey should never be allowed into the EU.[/QUOTE]
Over something that happened 100 years ago? Seriously?
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;44537503]Over something that happened 100 years ago? Seriously?[/QUOTE]
Germany is forced to recognize the Holocaust again and again and again. Turkey should only be allowed in the European Union once they change their education system to admit the atrocities and they have a PM that acknowledges it.
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;44537503]Over something that happened 100 years ago? Seriously?[/QUOTE]
It's not the fact that it happened, it's the fact that it's denied to be a genocide.
[QUOTE=Explosions;44537555]It's not the fact that it happened, it's the fact that it's denied to be a genocide.[/QUOTE]
Russia is denying the Holodomor, and Ukraine is denying the Wolyn massacre, yet nobody cares. But with Turkey it's suddenly a big deal. Why is that?
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;44537526]Germany is forced to recognize the Holocaust again and again and again. Turkey should only be allowed in the European Union once they change their education system to admit the atrocities and they have a PM that acknowledges it.[/QUOTE]
Yes but Sword and Paint said they should "never be allowed into the EU" because of the genocide, which is ridiculous.
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;44537503]Over something that happened 100 years ago? Seriously?[/QUOTE]
There's also the issue with Cyprus.
And the whole "letting in a country filled with poor people who have a notably different ethnic/religious heritage from Europe as a whole."
[editline]13th April 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;44537584]Russia is denying the Holodomor, and Ukraine is denying the Wolyn massacre, yet nobody cares. But with Turkey it's suddenly a big deal. Why is that?[/QUOTE]
Because Russia and the Ukraine aren't trying their hardest to become a member of the EU.
Probably.
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;44537584]Russia is denying the Holodomor, and Ukraine is denying the Wolyn massacre, yet nobody cares. But with Turkey it's suddenly a big deal. Why is that?[/QUOTE]
Wait, do Canada and America recognize the genocide of aboriginals? Does Spain and Portugal? I'm not trying to argue I just can't find whether or not they do, Google has not helped because whenever I Google it it brings back some blogs about some people either denying them or declaring war on white folk.
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;44537615]"letting in a country filled with poor people who have a notably different ethnic/religious heritage from Europe as a whole."[/QUOTE]
Getting warmer here
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;44537615]Because Russia and the Ukraine aren't trying their hardest to become a member of the EU.
Probably.[/QUOTE]
Ukraine is on the verge of civil war right partly because a lot of Ukrainians want to join the EU. Not even the Polish themselves care all that much about the Wolyn massacres.
And despite Russia not wanting to join the EU, the Holodomor does not affect the Russia-EU trade
Just because a country isn't in Europe shouldn't prevent them from joining.
If Japan wanted to join the EU tomorrow, I'd say let them.
snip
[QUOTE=Daniel Smith;44537764][B]European[/B] Union[/QUOTE]
"Europe is for Europeans"
"Asia is for Asians"
Same montra, different wording.
[QUOTE=Daniel Smith;44537764][B]European[/B] Union[/QUOTE]
Europe is just a peninsula of Asia.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;44537795]"Europe is for Europeans"
"Asia is for Asians"
Same montra, different wording.[/QUOTE]
What does that have to do with a Union made for European countries?
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;44537615]And the whole "letting in a country filled with poor people who have a notably different ethnic/religious heritage from Europe as a whole."[/QUOTE]
Yeah Europe is remarkable for its homogeneous ethnicity
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;44537615]
And the whole "letting in a country filled with poor people who have a notably different ethnic/religious heritage from Europe as a whole."[/QUOTE]
So uh
Every country in Europe ever.
Don't fucking try to tell me that Poland is ethnically/culturally the same as, say, Sweden. Don't try and pull that bollocks. The EU is an economic coalition of vastly different countries, and Turkey should be included.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;44537847]So uh
Every country in Europe ever.
Don't fucking try to tell me that Poland is ethnically/culturally the same as, say, Sweden. Don't try and pull that bollocks. The EU is an economic coalition of vastly different countries, and Turkey should be included.[/QUOTE]
Turkey is Muslim, the other EU members are christian. That's more difference than any countries in mainland Europe.
[QUOTE=Swineflu;44537946]Turkey is Muslim, the other EU members are christian. That's more difference than any countries in mainland Europe.[/QUOTE]
Aaaand? Czech (a Slavic language) is mightily different from Spanish (a Latin language). Catholicism is an entire schism away from Orthodoxy or Protestantism. Greek traditions are worlds away from British traditions.
It doesn't mean [I]jack shit[/I], is what I'm trying to get across.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;44537962]Aaaand? Czech (a Slavic language) is mightily different from Spanish (a Latin language). Catholicism is an entire schism away from Orthodoxy or Protestantism. Greek traditions are worlds away from British traditions.
It doesn't mean [I]jack shit[/I], is what I'm trying to get across.[/QUOTE]
It may not mean jack shit, but Turkey still won't join the EU.
As I said, one thing is that Turkey is a big-ass country which a lot of people will emigrate in Europe, and also too big to properly secure so illegal immigrants won't get free access to Europe. And again mentioning the big population again, since they'd get a shitload of seats in the European Parliament.
[QUOTE=Swineflu;44537946]Turkey is Muslim, the other EU members are christian. That's more difference than any countries in mainland Europe.[/QUOTE]
We are talking about the body that contains Finland, Portugal, Greece, and Britain, right?
[QUOTE=Megafan;44538181]We are talking about the body that contains Finland, Portugal, Greece, and Britain, right?[/QUOTE]
Which are christian, what's your point?
Turkey is definitely not ready for the EU. While the people and the minds are very western oriented while being muslims Erdogan, the head of state is very conservative and is willing to tear down demonstrations with military force. Remember the huge protests in the Gezi park in 2013 ??
[img]http://polpix.sueddeutsche.com/polopoly_fs/1.1697383.1371322453!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/860x860/image.jpg[/img]
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a1/2013_Taksim_Gezi_Park_protests_%2815th_June%29.jpg[/img]
Over 3.5 Million people were protesting peacefully on the Taksim place against wrecking the park but Erdogan teared it down with brutal police force.
Turkey is a hell of an intersting bridge between the western and the arabic world. Most of the people in Turkey will fit into the EU but the government with its political abuse of power won't!
[QUOTE=Broguts;44537677]Wait, do Canada and America recognize the genocide of aboriginals? Does Spain and Portugal? I'm not trying to argue I just can't find whether or not they do, Google has not helped because whenever I Google it it brings back some blogs about some people either denying them or declaring war on white folk.[/QUOTE]
I don't know about Canada, but most US schools teach about how the settlers and later on the US government treated the Native Americans badly. We still have Columbus Day though which is pretty fucked up.
[QUOTE=matt000024;44538564]I don't know about Canada, but most US schools teach about how the settlers and later on the US government treated the Native Americans badly. We still have Columbus Day though which is pretty fucked up.[/QUOTE]
What's wrong with Columbus Day?
It's celebrating the arrival of Europeans to the New World, not the arrival of war or diseases.
[QUOTE=matt000024;44538564]I don't know about Canada[/QUOTE]
I do!!!
And it totally and utterly glosses over the negative aspects of European settlement with the exception of the residential schools in the 20th century and some brief background into the Riel Rebellions and the conditions that caused them
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;44538571]What's wrong with Columbus Day?
It's celebrating the arrival of Europeans to the New World, not the arrival of war or diseases.[/QUOTE]
Well there's the fact that Columbus started the new world slave trade.
[QUOTE=Broguts;44538591]Well there's the fact that Columbus started the new world slave trade.[/QUOTE]
Eh, nobody's perfect.
Ghandi was a massive racist and Mandela was a terrorist, doesn't stop people from revering them.
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;44538821]Eh, nobody's perfect.
Ghandi was a massive racist and Mandela was a terrorist, doesn't stop people from revering them.[/QUOTE]
But they did good things that redeemed themselves, Ghandi and Mandela both liberated their countries from tyranny and oppression. Columbus created tyranny and oppression.
[QUOTE=Broguts;44539329]But they did good things that redeemed themselves, Ghandi and Mandela both liberated their countries from tyranny and oppression. Columbus created tyranny and oppression.[/QUOTE]
Are you suggesting that the discovery of the New World, and the colonization that resulted, wasn't a good thing?
Actually no, scratch that last part. The way people utilized the discovery should not mitigate the significance of the discovery itself. Columbus discovered America, this changed Human history and basically transformed Europe into the dominant power it was for the next 500 years. That alone is worthy of dedicating a day to, especially considering the country that practices it (United States) exists [I]because[/I] of the discovery.
Being part of the EU comes with some big reforms, and in RO for instance, membership of EU has come with a big reform in anti-corruption and justice, amongst other things like liberalisation etc. wich were not so much in place in the period in between the fall of communism and joining the EU.
Postpone Turkey's membership in the EU for long enough, and you might not have whom to invite for membership at a later date. I'm sure that things like internet censorship wouldn't have happened if Turkey had already integrated in the EU.
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