• Turkey not yet fit for EU, Germany’s Turkish origin minister says
    95 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;44539348]Are you suggesting that the discovery of the New World, and the colonization that resulted, wasn't a good thing? Actually no, scratch that last part. The way people utilized the discovery should not mitigate the significance of the discovery itself. Columbus discovered America, this changed Human history and basically transformed Europe into the dominant power it was for the next 500 years. That alone is worthy of dedicating a day to, especially considering the country that practices it (United States) exists [I]because[/I] of the discovery.[/QUOTE] The first Europeans to reach north America were the Vikings.
There will be a major uproar about this considering the sheer amount of turkish people living in Germany. Also I'm unable to imagine that Turkey could belong to the EU, not because of it's size but also due to it's absolutely different culture. Furthermore it's pretty far from Europa itself.
[QUOTE=Swineflu;44538235]Which are christian, what's your point?[/QUOTE] I didn't know Christianity was a prerequisite to join the EU. Shit that means Estonia should leave since they are more than 70% non-religious. Should you guys also cancel the UK's membership since Christianity is on the decline over there? Even if you pull culture, the Balkans and the Slavic members have had a way different history and culture than most of the western EU.
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;44541340]The first Europeans to reach north America were the Vikings.[/QUOTE] Yeah but their discovery had no impact on anything, unlike Colombus'.
[QUOTE=Steele92;44535952]So you exterminated 1.5 million of them just to be sure[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure he didn't personally execute 1.5 million people. Every country has done some terrible shit if you dig deep enough. It's not like I care about who joins the EU or not. It's just grating to see people resort to this kind of hypocritical bullshit.
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;44541340]The first Europeans to reach north America were the Vikings.[/QUOTE] Who cares? They lived in a few huts in Greenland and Newfoundland for a few years. Colombus was the guy who changed things.
[QUOTE=MrEndangered;44534988]Damn right, we don't want that backwards government here thanks.[/QUOTE] as opposed to your backwards government? [editline]14th April 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Swineflu;44538235]Which are christian, what's your point?[/QUOTE] There's actually (that i know of) no christian nations in the EU, every constitution is secular
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;44537795]"Europe is for Europeans" "Asia is for Asians" Same montra, different wording.[/QUOTE] No no, stop being racist\xenophobic, enjoy diversity, yes Asia is for Asians, but Europe is for everyone!
[QUOTE=Zarfa;44537466]You guys have to understand, Turkish education system tells children of 12 years old the tales of how brave Ottoman soldiers took care of the Armenian scum. It is no wonder you will meet Turks who deny the genocide, still numbers are fully exaggerated, 2 million is fuck shit ton too much to even say. English and Italian officials of the time report that there were 1,5 million Armenians living in Ottoman Empire as a whole. Historian erik-jan zürcher estimates that there were 600k to 800k Armenians killed. Back to topic, I do believe Turkey should be allowed into EU as Turkey has the man power that EU needs while Turkey is in no state to be allowed into EU because of the human rights stuff.[/QUOTE] You literally just said that your country basically justifies the Armenian genocide en masse and systematically, why the fuck would you ever be allowed into the EU. Seriously though, who the fuck needs manpower in the EU? Go ahead and tell me why Turkey is important for the EU.
[QUOTE=Sword and Paint;44543795]No no, stop being racist\xenophobic, enjoy diversity, yes Asia is for Asians, but Europe is for everyone![/QUOTE] I think you would be hard-pressed to find anyone arguing that Japan has been reasonable with regard to immigration, or that generally strict immigration policy from them or Korea is particularly good. Nor will you find many people willing to justify the discrimination foreigners face in Asia, including foreign Asians as well as Westerners and Africans. So no, everywhere is for everyone, not just Europe. Europeans themselves certainly didn't believe in that kind of thing (or at least not in any genuine way) when they were colonising the Americas and Africa and Australia and New Zealand and India, among countless others.
[QUOTE=Sword and Paint;44543795]No no, stop being racist\xenophobic, enjoy diversity, yes Asia is for Asians, but Europe is for everyone![/QUOTE] Are you implying that there is absolutely no xenophobia in Europe?
[QUOTE=Swineflu;44538235]Which are christian, what's your point?[/QUOTE] Finland holds significant share of Turkish immigrants and now needs steady supply of kebab for late-night party goers. Thus we can see that Turkish people can adapt to European union. Turkish people please don't kill me
[QUOTE=Swineflu;44538235]Which are christian, what's your point?[/QUOTE] [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/47/Europe_belief_in_god.svg/655px-Europe_belief_in_god.svg.png[/img] This map shows the percentage of citizens of European nations that believe in a god. Do not tell me that Britain, France, Germany, Sweden, Finland, etc. are Christian. Not that their religion is relevant to membership to the EU anyway.
[QUOTE=PolarEventide;44544082]Not that their religion is relevant to membership to the EU anyway.[/QUOTE] But being European kinda is. Should just cede Constantinople back to the Greeks, we wouldn't even have this pointless discussion then.
[QUOTE=PolarEventide;44544082][img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/47/Europe_belief_in_god.svg/655px-Europe_belief_in_god.svg.png[/img] This map shows the percentage of citizens of European nations that believe in a god. Do not tell me that Britain, France, Germany, Sweden, Finland, etc. are Christian. Not that their religion is relevant to membership to the EU anyway.[/QUOTE] I'm not buying that 80% graph for portugal, only like 1 in 20 young people is actually firmly what i would consider religious, our older people here which control the census just tag everyone under 18 as catholic or christian
[QUOTE=Scar;44544108]But being European kinda is. Should just cede Constantinople back to the Greeks, we wouldn't even have this pointless discussion then.[/QUOTE] Yeah like Turkey would ever give up Istanbul
Here are some things you should know about us: Government tolerates pedophilia in the rural regions Government is corrupt (Islamist) and has arrested many pro-secular journalists and military officials in the past 5 years The prisons are getting full that the government is now trying their best to not imprison criminals (they tolerate most thefts, armed assaults, pedophilia cases, sexual molestation and so on. the way our government tolerates almost all non-murder cases even became a meme here) People are becoming more and more religiously radical and pro-Islamism, half of the country hate Atatürk The AKP government openly declare they're anti-atheist We literally don't have a physical border on the Southeast (Syria and Iraq), a terrorist can just walk freely into Turkey and he won't be deported. This is the Turkish-Syrian "border" [url]http://webtv.hurriyet.com.tr/2/39146/0/1/sinir-degil-yol-gecen-hani[/url] You decide if we should join or not.
[QUOTE=Allah;44544673]Here are some things you should know about us: Government tolerates pedophilia in the rural regions Government is corrupt (Islamist) and has arrested many pro-secular journalists and military officials in the past 5 years The prisons are getting full that the government is now trying their best to not imprison criminals (they tolerate most thefts, armed assaults, pedophilia cases, sexual molestation and so on. the way our government tolerates almost all non-murder cases even became a meme here) People are becoming more and more religiously radical and pro-Islamism, half of the country hate Atatürk The AKP government openly declare they're anti-atheist We literally don't have a physical border on the Southeast (Syria and Iraq), a terrorist can just walk freely into Turkey and he won't be deported. This is the Turkish-Syrian "border" [url]http://webtv.hurriyet.com.tr/2/39146/0/1/sinir-degil-yol-gecen-hani[/url] You decide if we should join or not.[/QUOTE] I'm not really a fan of Atatürk either so does that make me a governmentalist?
I wish Ataturk had eradicated Islam from the nation completely. Sorry if that makes me seem like some sort of xenophobe, but the period after the Empire fell was where Turkey saw the most growth and development in its entire history. Now, with the resurgence of Islam, we see the direction the country is headed.
[QUOTE=AhoyMate;44544775]I'm not really a fan of Atatürk either so does that make me a governmentalist?[/QUOTE] Hating Atatürk and not being a big fan of him are two different things. But if you truly hate him, you don't belong to this country.
[QUOTE=Explosions;44544838]I wish Ataturk had eradicated Islam from the nation completely. Sorry if that makes me seem like some sort of xenophobe, but the period after the Empire fell was where Turkey saw the most growth and development in its entire history. Now, with the resurgence of Islam, we see the direction the country is headed.[/QUOTE] It has nothing to do with Islam actually. It's just the fact that there are no good leaders to administrate the country. Oh, forgot about people who use religion for their personal agenda. [QUOTE=Allah;44545014]Hating Atatürk and not being a big fan of him are two different things. But if you truly hate him, you don't belong to this country.[/QUOTE] Nah he's a great man I'm just not fond of his views and such. I was just stating that hatred =/= dislike, however you've just cleared that up.
[QUOTE=Explosions;44544838]I wish Ataturk had eradicated Islam from the nation completely. Sorry if that makes me seem like some sort of xenophobe, but the period after the Empire fell was where Turkey saw the most growth and development in its entire history. Now, with the resurgence of Islam, we see the direction the country is headed.[/QUOTE] I hope you don't get dumb-bombed by the anti-christians on this forum. For some reason, they love the idea of eradicating Christianity while they go apeshit when Islam is criticized. As someone who grew up among muslims, I can say that we'd be better off without it.
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;44537503]Over something that happened 100 years ago? Seriously?[/QUOTE] As long as they deny that shit it's gonna be a huge argument against their entry. That and the constant disrespect of human rights.
[QUOTE=AhoyMate;44545031]It has nothing to do with Islam actually. It's just the fact that there are no good leaders to administrate the country. Oh, forgot about people who use religion for their personal agenda. Nah he's a great man I'm just not fond of his views and such. I was just stating that hatred =/= dislike, however you've just cleared that up.[/QUOTE] It all ends with the population. People will keep voting for Erdoğan until he devours the country, because for them Islam is above everything and Erdoğan knows how to use Islam to control the people. Erdoğan is a smart motherfucker, he's not even religious. The people are the issue, they fail to realise they're being fooled. You've heard the tape where Bağış mocks Islamic verses, right?
[QUOTE=Allah;44545097]It all ends with the population. People will keep voting for Erdoğan until he devours the country, because for them Islam is above everything and Erdoğan knows how to use Islam to control the people. Erdoğan is a smart motherfucker, he's not even religious. The people are the issue, they fail to realise they're being fooled. You've heard the tape where Bağış mocks Islamic verses, right?[/QUOTE] Course. It's just funny and pathetic at the same time..
[QUOTE=Allah;44545097]It all ends with the population. People will keep voting for Erdoğan until he devours the country, because for them Islam is above everything and Erdoğan knows how to use Islam to control the people. Erdoğan is a smart motherfucker, he's not even religious. The people are the issue, they fail to realise they're being fooled. You've heard the tape where Bağış mocks Islamic verses, right?[/QUOTE] Mullah Nasreddin (or Nasruddin if you prefer) would have made a better ruler by far than Erdogan.
[QUOTE=Broguts;44539329]But they did good things that redeemed themselves, Ghandi and Mandela both liberated their countries from tyranny and oppression. Columbus created tyranny and oppression.[/QUOTE] Columbus found a continent that became a haven for the oppressed people of Europe who were getting butchered for something as little as having a religion with a slightly different name. It also proved to be a good place to go when your entire fucking country started dying out due to no food being found anywhere (see Ireland). Besides, the accomplishment goes to him, whether or not the guy was an asshole is irrelevant. Newton is still celebrated as a god damn genius for having written down a proper rule for universal gravity, yet he was still a massive prick who shot down a lot of other scientists and appropriated their discoveries through the use of extensive legal procedures and lawsuits. We are still celebrating the guy for his discovery. Also accusing someone who lived in the 15th century of being racist and condoning slavery is kind of really fucking retarded because it was the widely accepted social norm at the time and being that way isn't exactly making anyone an especially evil asshole, it just makes them the product of their time. If we're gonna head this way we might as well remove all respect for anyone born before the 1960s because basically everyone before that was a racist prick by today standards, and it was the norm to be that way. Shit, we might as well wipe the name of all kings from existence because they relied on incest so much and incest is bad, am I right ?
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;44539348]Actually no, scratch that last part. The way people utilized the discovery should not mitigate the significance of the discovery itself.[/QUOTE] North America had been known about by a lot of people for quite some time. It's highly probable icelanders and norwegians were aware of the new world during the early modern period due to the previous viking discoveries and settlements. There resonble evidense to purport that Basque fishermen fished off the coast of canada long berfore the Columbus discovery, I highly doubt they didn't notice the massive landmass next to them while they were doing it. Given the gaelic presence in Iceland prior to Norse migration, it may even be within the realm of possibility that ancient Gaels may have discovered north america as well. Columbus day ultimately celebrates colonialism. When an explorer from relevant, mainland Europe decided it was time to colonize this place that many people already knew about and he just discovered [editline]14th April 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Ganerumo;44545156]Columbus found a continent that became a haven for the oppressed people of Europe who were getting butchered for something as little as having a religion with a slightly different name. It also proved to be a good place to go when your entire fucking country started dying out due to no food being found anywhere (see Ireland).[/QUOTE] While this is true, all of this is a double edged sword. European migration was a death sentence for many north american natives and that shouldn't be ignored because of the few good aspects of European colonialism. As per your example, keep in mind that many of the first Irish people who landed in north america were slaves and/or "indentured servants" of anglo gentry, so keep that in mind when you claim it was a safe haven for such people. There are still rifts between native and european peoples and cultures so annual "wooo colonialism" day is obviously somewhat of a one sided affair at the expense of another peoples culture and history.
Columbus couldn't predict that finding new lands would make everyone go batshit insane and murder the locals. As far as I'm aware, he didn't exactly call for cultural genocide either. Columbus day is about finding new lands, it's not about setting a new colonial waypoint for the superior white race empire at the peril of sub-human colored trash already present.
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;44545311]North America had been known about by a lot of people for quite some time. It's highly probable icelanders and norwegians were aware of the new world during the early modern period due to the previous viking discoveries and settlements. There resonble evidense to purport that Basque fishermen fished off the coast of canada long berfore the Columbus discovery, I highly doubt they didn't notice the massive landmass next to them while they were doing it. Given the gaelic presence in Iceland prior to Norse migration, it may even be within the realm of possibility that ancient Gaels may have discovered north america as well.[/QUOTE] The thing about the New World is not that people were aware it was an entirely new continent. You mention all of these peoples (gaels and basques did not go there by any stretch), when really it's more likely they ended up stuck in some island in the North Sea or North Atlantic. Most cartographic graphs from the middle ages displayed hundreds of nonexistent islands. Even when columbus discovered the new world, he, and most other people, were still generally holding to the theory that it was only Asia. Only after a few more decades did it become a firmly solid idea that they had landed in a whole new continent (and a few more centuries to remove all of those nonexistent islands).
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