Senator Feinstein's Office releases Fusion GPS interview transcript after GOP chair silence
163 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;53038623][I]It's beginning to smell a lot like treason ♫[/I][/QUOTE]
T'is the Treason to be jolly ♪
[QUOTE=OvB;53038684]This seems like a pretty big deal. Can't wait to see how people spin it to make it not seem like a pretty big deal.[/QUOTE]
So far the republicans are "totally confounded that she would release such information in the middle of an active investigation!" Ya how dare she implicate the GOP in this thing they're deriding
[QUOTE=Sableye;53038702]So far the republicans are "totally confounded that she would release such information in the middle of an active investigation!" Ya how dare she implicate the GOP in this thing they're deriding[/QUOTE]
Especially when the opening statements make it clear that nothing in that hearing would be classified or privileged information -- per the Republican making that assertion because they wanted something juicy to leak to the public. This transcript was, from the very beginning, intended for public release. It was only blocked by the GOP because they realized how fucking damning it was for them and for Trump.
The GOP's intense efforts to delegitimize this investigation are now painfully clear: they are implicated. They knew, [I]nine months[/I] before the Democrats, just how deep Trump was into Russia. They not only ignored that, they tried to bury it. Now, it's being shovelled up.
[QUOTE=sgman91;53038526]I don't know, the articles I just finished reading weren't from right wing sources (The Atlantic, for example: [URL]https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/07/why-bogus-stories-persist-because-they-work/533589/[/URL])
I will fully admit that I had read his wiki-bio incorrectly about the 1 year of being an attorney. I got the dates of his various graduations mixed up.
[/QUOTE]
Only mention of Seth Abramson:
[QUOTE]This constellation offers everything from improbable stories (Palmer Report) to bizarre conspiracy theories (Seth Abramson) to outlets that aspire to be “the Breitbart of the left” (Shareblue). [/QUOTE]
No sources supplied for any of this. It's just claims.
[QUOTE]What are his journalistic credentials? Clearly being an ex-attorney and professor of an unrelated field doesn't make your tweets a legitimate news source. This article seems to present multiple false claims that he's made through tweets (I have no idea about the source, but evidence is provided, and it's listed as left biased with high factual reporting): [url]https://www.pastemagazine.com/articl...-trumps-r.html[/url][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Seth Abramson is a writer, poet, attorney, editor and assistant professor of English at the University of New Hampshire, but he is most well-known for his unhinged Twitter account.[/QUOTE]
Article starts off misleading, and ignores his years of work as a criminal defense attorney and his expertise on that subject.
[QUOTE]I reached out to Abramson to get more details on what your donations go to.[/QUOTE]
He then posts two pictures, one is him asking the legitimate question, the next is of him being blocked from Abramson's twitter. Did the question lead to him getting blocked or is this a deliberate mislead? We don't know, since there's no evidence for either statement.
[QUOTE]Pairing the words FBI, CIA and intelligence, with Source E Epshteyn in a Google search doesn't produce a single report from even a semi-legitimate outlet that proposes the idea that Epshteyn is Source E—yet this commenter takes that as a verified truth—and that is almost certainly thanks to Seth Abramson's wild theory that he presented as unadulterated fact. Abramson is poisoning a very legitimate narrative by inserting a wave of falsehoods and wishful thinking into the minds of a populace genuinely afraid and confused as to our president's association with a foreign adversary.[/QUOTE]
No sources or facts presented.
What follows is 5000 tweets from Abramson where he asks for retweets. Completely irrelevant to the legitimacy of his statements.
[QUOTE]If you read the article that he links to, there is absolutely nothing that supports his claim that “Trump is about to wage war.” There isn't even any mention of the word “war” in the piece. This embedded tweet is the closest that article gets to even talking about violence.[/QUOTE]
True enough.
[QUOTE]This confusion, plus tweets like this one below, give the impression that Abramson has no fucking clue what “reporting” means.[/QUOTE]
Probably more than a guy writing for "paste magazine" about sports.
Response to Claim 1 is an irrelevant quote as far as I can tell.
Response to Claim 2 is wrong, as the articles in question don't mention the tapes (whether or not they exist)
Claim 3 fair enough, he might be right.
But here's a question, even if his reporting is not [I]new[/I], does that mean his coverage of courtroom intrigue and legalese is wrong?
I would take Seth Abramson's twitter posts with a grain of salt, for real. I'm not saying he's spinning bullshit but don't accept what he says without thinking critically about it.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;53038450]Not sure what he's referring to specifically, but it is almost a certainty that the poor girls involved in the Ritz Moscow "piss tape" were murdered to prevent leaks or verification.[/QUOTE]
Murdered on the orders of trump? Source?
[QUOTE=Maloof?;53038744]Murdered on the orders of trump? Source?[/QUOTE]
Did you read what he said, and then place "On the orders of Trump" into the sentence on your own accord?
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;53038751]Did you read what he said, and then place "On the orders of Trump" into the sentence on your own accord?[/QUOTE]
I asked a question to help clarify his statement...
His original post doesn't suggest who would have committed those murders, and Trump would be the one most affected by the confirmed testimonies of those women, so I think it's a fair question to ask
I don't know about you but when I think of who would be involved in cleaning up a "problem" in Moscow, that shit gets done without Trump even needing to know about it, much less request it be done to clean up a potential info leak. It's kind of implicit who's behind it, at least indirectly.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;53038751]Did you read what he said, and then place "On the orders of Trump" into the sentence on your own accord?[/QUOTE]
wrong indeed, but let's not gloss over the fact BDA just described unconfirmed murders of unconfirmed people from an unconfirmed incident as "almost a certainty" and not a single fucking person called him out on it until now
this is fucking dangerous mate
[QUOTE=Maloof?;53038755]I asked a question to help clarify his statement...
His original post doesn't suggest who would have committed those murders, and Trump would be the one most affected by the confirmed testimonies of those women, so I think it's a fair question to ask[/QUOTE]
Putins enemies mysteriously disappear or get assassinated frequently
I don't have to stretch to think Putin is involved.
Holy shit what a clusterfuck this has become.
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;53038760]wrong indeed, but let's not gloss over the fact BDA just described unconfirmed murders of unconfirmed people from an unconfirmed incident as "almost a certainty" and not a single fucking person called him out on it until now
this is fucking dangerous mate[/QUOTE]
It's a pretty reasonable assumption, man. Putin's government wields murder as a favored tool. The line between the Russian government and Russian organized crime is an incredibly thin one. Given what these girls would have been witness to / participants in, the likelihood that they were allowed to live is... Small. When we know that at least one Russian agent was murdered for his role in the intelligence supplied to the Steele dossier, do you really think that some anonymous prostitutes would be spared?
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;53038819]It's a pretty reasonable assumption, man. Putin's government wields murder as a favored tool. The line between the Russian government and Russian organized crime is an incredibly thin one. Given what these girls would have been witness to / participants in, the likelihood that they were allowed to live is... Small. When we know that at least one Russian agent was murdered for his role in the intelligence supplied to the Steele dossier, do you really think that some anonymous prostitutes would be spared?[/QUOTE]
This. Especially since people have already been killed due to this dossier - it shows there's already an interest in 'keeping things quiet' through knife and cloak.
They're either 'permanent guests of the State' or dead. They're too valuable to let roam around for Putin's regime and there are no ethical brakes on that former spymaster's train. It's not only a reasonable assumption (because, sad to say it, these girls are 'nobodies' and when you're a nobody you're very easy to 'make go away') I'd go so far as to say it's a pretty likely one.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;53038819]It's a pretty reasonable assumption, man. Putin's government wields murder as a favored tool. The line between the Russian government and Russian organized crime is an incredibly thin one. Given what these girls would have been witness to / participants in, the likelihood that they were allowed to live is... Small.[/QUOTE]
I'm gonna be real with you BDA. You're known. You've got a green name, a big avatar, and many people have looked up to you over the years. And you constantly use that influence to parade "pretty reasonable assumptions" around as fact. Your attempts at equating rationalization with verification are completely fucking unacceptable, and I've come to be embarrassed of the fact I used to be one of those people who looked up to you. You personify the "quickness and willingness to believe that is worryingly emotional" that I talked about. The only thing worse than your recent, borderline conspiracy theorist-tier bouts is the way you hide this behind verbose, sanctimonious rants, as well as your own status within FP, in order to drag people along into your lunacy.
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;53038857]I'm gonna be real with you BDA. You're known. You've got a green name, a big avatar, and many people have looked up to you over the years. And you constantly use that influence to parade "pretty reasonable assumptions" around as fact. Your attempts at equating rationalization with verification are completely fucking unacceptable, and I've come to be embarrassed of the fact I used to be one of those people who looked up to you. You personify the "quickness and willingness to believe that is worryingly emotional" that I talked about. The only thing worse than your recent, borderline conspiracy theorist-tier bouts is the way you hide this behind verbose, sanctimonious rants, as well as your own status within FP, in order to drag people along into your lunacy.[/QUOTE]
I'm coming to be embarrassed that you think that what BDA is asserting here as a likely reality is 'borderline conspiracy theorist'. Whether you like it or not, that's just how things are in Russia.
People have died for much much less in Russia by Putin's command. In what world would a KGB spymaster not tie up his loose ends when he has a corrupt government under his thumb, the resources to do so, and the lack of ethical moorings necessary to give said orders? This is the same government who bugged literally every room in said luxury hotel simply to maximize the potential to gather kompromat on visiting dignitaries and political rivals. This is not a nice man - not a 'polite' government - this is a machiavellian spymaster at the head of a murderous, freedom-crushing, nearly-fascist corrupt state who's gotten his knife wet on routine occasion to further his political ambitions.
Frankly, the 'borderline conspiracy theory' would be that Putin would do nothing to said girls.
[QUOTE=Firgof Umbra;53038869]I'm coming to be embarrassed that you think that what BDA is asserting here as a likely reality is 'borderline conspiracy theorist'. Whether you like it or not, that's just how things are in Russia.[/QUOTE]
See what I fucking mean when I say this?
[quote]parade "pretty reasonable assumptions" around as fact[/quote]
[quote]attempts at equating rationalization with verification[/quote]
lo and behold, in the span of a single fucking sentence, you went from
[quote]a likely reality[/quote]
to
[quote]that's just how things are in Russia[/quote]
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;53038876]See what I fucking mean when I say this?
lo and behold, in the span of a single fucking sentence, you went from
to[/QUOTE]
Lo and behold, in the span of a single post you've gone from 'I'm advocating for rational and logical discourse' to 'see what I fucking mean, look at what I point out - not what the poster means'.
It is a likely reality. People die in Russia all the time due to the state and Putin's desires; that is what [I]makes[/I] it a likely reality - because [I]that's just how things are in Russia[/I].
Fact: People die all the time in Russia due to political ambitions or inconvenience or even just a need for control of a situation. The more valuable you are, the more likely you're going to be targeted for such state actions, weighed against how 'known' you are and how many people would miss you if actions were taken. These girls are incredibly valuable and incredibly unknown - ergo it's very reasonable to consider that [I]something[/I] has been done to them, especially since the likelihood of retribution against the state is minimal to none given that these are nobodies and they routinely murder heads of police and so forth. So we take that fact of 'life in Russia' and we apply it to 'extremely valuable political kompromat on the largest enemy Russia has ever had' and what do you think the result would be? I'd accept a variety of responses and possibilities but the one response that I'd throw serious doubt at is 'nothing'.
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;53038876]See what I fucking mean when I say this?[/QUOTE]
no
edit:
like i still don't get why you have a problem with bda, other than possibly that he says things you don't want to be true
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;53038857]I'm gonna be real with you BDA. You're known. You've got a green name, a big avatar, and many people have looked up to you over the years. And you constantly use that influence to parade "pretty reasonable assumptions" around as fact. Your attempts at equating rationalization with verification are completely fucking unacceptable, and I've come to be embarrassed of the fact I used to be one of those people who looked up to you. You personify the "quickness and willingness to believe that is worryingly emotional" that I talked about. The only thing worse than your recent, borderline conspiracy theorist-tier bouts is the way you hide this behind verbose, sanctimonious rants, as well as your own status within FP, in order to drag people along into your lunacy.[/QUOTE]
I think you're reading way too far into me / my intentions. No, we definitely don't know for a fact that these girls were killed, but we do know that Putin's government is a violent and corrupt one, with close ties to organized crime, and thus it pretty rationally follows that they would have had those girls murdered given what they would have been involved in, especially given that we know that other, more "important" people in relation to this dossier have [I]already[/I] been murdered under some pretty darn suspicious circumstances.
We're talking about the lives of a few prostitutes on the same stage with kompromat held over [I]the President of the United States[/I]. No way Putin lets those girls go walking and talking. If they aren't dead, then they are somewhere they can never be heard.
um it's a pretty fair assumption to make that putin's regime is behind a number of murders of anti-state actors, this is far from conspiracy theorist stuff, russia's democracy is pretty openly a sham and russian organized crime operates at an incredibly deep level with politicians
BDA can be a bit quick to jump to accusations and assumptions and pass them off as fact, but this is not really one of those cases; considering we are literally in a reality where trump nearly undoubtedly committed treason with the russian government to help secure the election, something that was considered absolute lunacy conspiracy theory less than a year ago, means that we can fairly assume, based on a pretty coloured history of putin's "democracy", that a notoriously violent russian crime family could kill a few nameless prostitutes. hell, i hardly ever read BDA's posts so he's not "seducing" me over to this mentality, many people believe (pretty accurately i am sure) that the russian mob and russian government are pretty interconnected
that's not conspiracy level stuff, especially if you look at just exactly how much has been revealed (as fact) about these interactions. hell, organized crime assassinations under government instruction isn't even a rare thing, [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaborations_between_the_United_States_government_and_Italian_Mafia]the US was guilty of the same exact things, just, you know, in other countries[/url]
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;53038760]wrong indeed, but let's not gloss over the fact BDA just described unconfirmed murders of unconfirmed people from an unconfirmed incident as "almost a certainty" and not a single fucking person called him out on it until now
this is fucking dangerous mate[/QUOTE]
TBH BDA's posts have been increasingly dramatised and bordering on conspiracy theory territory for the past few weeks. If he was posting about any other subject he'd be called out on his flagrant exaggeration.
BDA I agree that Trump and the Republican party have been incredibly awful and well into cartoon villain territory, but you're kind of losing the head.
[QUOTE=Loriborn;53038918]that's not conspiracy level stuff, especially if you look at just exactly how much has been revealed (as fact) about these interactions. hell, organized crime assassinations under government instruction isn't even a rare thing, the US was guilty of the same exact things, just, you know, in other countries[/QUOTE]
Though I agree with the brunt of your post, we're not nearly as guilty of it as Russia is nor is it employed so frequently.
[quote=Janus Vesta;53038923]BDA I agree that Trump and the Republican party have been incredibly awful and well into cartoon villain territory, but you're kind of losing the head.[/quote]
Please state where you think he's 'losing the head' and/or where the 'conspiracy theory' is in his posts so far.
[QUOTE=Firgof Umbra;53038926]Though I agree with the brunt of your post, we're not nearly as guilty of it as Russia is nor is it employed so frequently.[/QUOTE]
not my point, russians interaction with crime families far surpasses that of the US, just pointing out that nations approaching illicit actors to engage in illegal acts on their behalf is something pretty much every country does to avoid getting its hands dirty and being linked to illegal acts; russia just does this to an extreme, does little to hide the corruption, and operates against its own people
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;53038909]I think you're reading way too far into me / my intentions. No, we definitely don't know for a fact that these girls were killed, but we do know that Putin's government is a violent and corrupt one, with close ties to organized crime, and thus it pretty rationally follows that they would have had those girls murdered given what they would have been involved in, and knowing that they have already killed other, more "important" people in relation to this dossier.
We're talking about the lives of a few prostitutes on the same stage with kompromat held over [I]the President of the United States.[/I] No way Putin lets those girls go walking and talking. If they aren't dead, then they are somewhere they can never be heard.[/QUOTE]
Do we even know if the piss tape is at all real at this point? I don't really read deep into these things but it seems like you're concluding that the tape is a 100% fact and thusly those pissing prostitutes are probably dead. I don't deny that Putin & Co. would murder a few no-name hookers to protect their interests.
[QUOTE=OvB;53038934]Do we even know if the piss tape is at all real at this point? I don't really read deep into these things but it seems like you're concluding that the tape is a 100% fact and thusly those pissing prostitutes are probably dead. I don't deny that Putin & Co. would murder a few no-name hookers to protect their interests.[/QUOTE]
The question is: Do you accept the opinion of multiple intelligence agencies who have stated that they're 'aware of said tape' or the opinion of Trump et al who state 'there is no tape'?
The sticking point on it for me is less the tape's existence and more what is [I]on[/I] the tape. Despite multiple intel. agencies stating they're aware of its existence few have stated what they believe to be on said tape. In sum: Is there a tape? Intel agencies agree there is. Is it a 'piss tape'? That's still very much up for debate. What's less up for debate is that it's nonetheless Kompromat - whatever winds up being actually on it, if we ever see it, which we probably won't unless Putin decides to release it.
Given what's going on in our government right now, I think my response has been pretty measure, but you're drifting pretty far from the crux of things here. Your personal feelings towards me don't have anything to do with the discussion at hand. I've already agreed that my statement regarding the Ritz Moscow girls was an assumption, but I think it's quite a reasonable and rational one. I have no real interest in belaboring that point any further, so if you disagree, then I suppose that's fine.
Moving on, can we spend a little more time and effort discussing what is, perhaps, the most significant political news in modern American history, and a little less time arguing over whether or not I'm popular?
Please remember that the 'piss tape' is still unconfirmed to even exist. Making assumptions as to what happened to people who may not even exist in a tape which might not even exist and presenting those assumptions as facts is no better than all the bullshit that the Trump admin spews out on a daily basis. There's tangible things to attack, things with hard evidence, there's no need to resort to this kind of stuff.
[QUOTE=OvB;53038934]Do we even know if the piss tape is at all real at this point? I don't really read deep into these things but it seems like you're concluding that the tape is a 100% fact and thusly those pissing prostitutes are probably dead. I don't deny that Putin & Co. would murder a few no-name hookers to protect their interests.[/QUOTE]
Let me put it this way: everything in the Steele dossier is confirmed 100% except for the piss tape.
[media]https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/950860183315668992[/media]
You couldn't make it more obvious if you got them to hold up signs with red herrings on them.
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