• Senator Feinstein's Office releases Fusion GPS interview transcript after GOP chair silence
    163 replies, posted
regardless of whether the piss tape is real, the russian government has shown that its perfectly capable and willing to kill more prominent political figures, why is it hard to assume they'd have a random russian mob low level shlub kill prostitutes? it doesn't change the fact that the russian government clearly does not want these investigations to continue, and even if the piss tape is fake or cannot be proven, it's only one rather trivial part of a far more important whole
[QUOTE=Firgof Umbra;53038936]The question is: Do you accept the opinion of multiple intelligence agencies who have stated that they're 'aware of said tape' or the opinion of Trump et al who state 'there is no tape'? The sticking point on it for me is less the tape's existence and more what is [I]on[/I] the tape. Despite multiple intel. agencies stating they're aware of its existence few have stated what they believe to be on said tape.[/QUOTE] I question the tape entirely. Being aware of a tape does not confirm it's contents and it's such a far-fetched thing that for me it's gonna require a bit more of a confirmation other than "yeah we've heard about it." Whether or not that sort of confirmation exists, I have no clue. Like I said I don't really read into this stuff much.
[QUOTE=OvB;53038934]Do we even know if the piss tape is at all real at this point? I don't really read deep into these things but it seems like you're concluding that the tape is a 100% fact and thusly those pissing prostitutes are probably dead. I don't deny that Putin & Co. would murder a few no-name hookers to protect their interests.[/QUOTE] Yeah, that's a fair point. Officially speaking, the "piss tape" event is not confirmed. So zi guess I should note as a disclaimer that, if we are hypothetically accepting it's existence as fact, then the rest of what I've said stands true. The girls involved in that would no longer be around to tell the tale. As to whether or not we [I]should[/I] accept the claim? Personally, I lean quite heavily towards "yes." I fully believe that the kompromat is real. Thus far, everything we [I]do[/I] know about that night jives with the Intel Steele received. Nothing exists to discredit the claim, and some notable pieces of surrounding circumstantial evidence exists to support it. In concert with Steele's flawless reputation, and the fact that many other major claims from the dossier have already been verified as the untarnished truth (with [I]nothing[/I] discredited), I see no reason why should we assume that [I]this[/I] claim is the fluke exception.
[QUOTE=OvB;53038955]I question the tape entirely. Being aware of a tape does not confirm it's contents and it's such a far-fetched thing that for me it's gonna require a bit more of a confirmation other than "yeah we've heard about it." Whether or not that sort of confirmation exists, I have no clue. Like I said I don't really read into this stuff much.[/QUOTE] I'm in whole agreement with you that all we have is rumor as to what's on the tape. However, I think that's less important than what the tape [I]is[/I] which is that it's Kompromat. Is it a 'piss tape'? Maybe. So far everything brought from the Dossier that has been examined has been not just verified but independently verified and found wholly accurate. Thus, I feel comfortable siding on that it's much more likely that not only does it exist but that it exists in the form that's described in the dossier. That's still kind of irrelevant however because the thrust of it is that the President is being blackmailed by the thing's existence -- which is the shared opinion of the intelligence community regarding said tape.
[QUOTE=Firgof Umbra;53038960]I'm in whole agreement with you that all we have is rumor as to what's on the tape. However, I think that's less important than what the tape [I]is[/I] which is that it's Kompromat. Is it a 'piss tape'? Maybe. That's kind of irrelevant however because the thrust of it is that the President is being blackmailed by the thing's existence -- which is the shared opinion of the intelligence community regarding said tape.[/QUOTE] Yeah I agree on that part. The part I struggle to agree with is the whole idea that Trump would watch prostitutes piss on a bed that Obama slept in because that whole mental imagine is so hilariously perfect that it's hard to believe. Trump having prostitutes in the same room Obama was in and havin' a shag is a bit more reasonable, but I suppose those details are unimportant overall.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;53038946]Let me put it this way: everything in the Steele dossier is confirmed 100% except for the piss tape.[/QUOTE] Isn't the big issue with the Steele dossier that they haven't verified if Trump's associates did meet with Russian individuals on those days and locations as Steele claimed? So far, I haven't heard that there was verifiable proof of that, and the closest I've heard in previous threads, was that Michael Cohen was on the European continent on the day of one of those supposed meetings, but even then, he would have had to have travelled a few thousand kilometres across several countries back-and-forth without anyone noticing within a day, which seems unlikely to me.
[QUOTE=OvB;53038975]Yeah I agree on that part. The part I struggle to agree with is the whole idea that Trump would watch prostitutes piss on a bed that Obama slept in because that whole mental imagine is so hilariously perfect that it's hard to believe. Trump having prostitutes in the same room Obama was in and havin' a shag is a bit more reasonable, but I suppose those details are unimportant overall.[/QUOTE] He's currently fucking over the entire USAand its 300+ million people to undo everything that has Obama's name even remotely attached to it. Paying a few thousand to have some high class prostitutes piss in a bed seems like it would come as a [I]whim[/I] at best.
[QUOTE=Jordax;53038976]Isn't the big issue with the Steele dossier that they haven't verified if Trump's associates did meet with Russian individuals on those days and locations as Steele claimed? So far, I haven't heard that there was verifiable proof of that, and the closest I've heard in previous threads, was that Michael Cohen was on the European continent on the day of one of those supposed meetings, but even then, he would have had to have travelled a few thousand kilometres across several countries back-and-forth without anyone noticing within a day, which seems unlikely to me.[/QUOTE] I don't believe I've heard of public verification of those dates. That said, the investigations looking in to the claims of the Dossier are both being hurled about constantly and are being run by parties who seem only interested in [I]particular parts[/I] of the Dossier's provided intelligence. Whether or not those specific claims are even being investigated is suspect - I trust and hope that they are but have no proof to offer of that. That said, the FBI and SCO are likely building the proper timeline and are vetting this dossier as a secondary source. It is, after all, primarily HUMINT - and that can be sometimes unreliable. Nothing that has come out so far, however, has bore out to be 'wild fabrications' and so forth so at very least there were measures of control in place to attempt to ensure only credible HUMINT was gathered and used in these reports. Worse, if there is verifiable proof we're not likely to hear about it in the first place as that proof would likely remain 'under wraps' for fear of it damaging potential contacts and sources in valuable locations if sources were provided for said claims. In sum: If they do get verified, it's likely we'll only get to hear about it from 'anonymous sources' unless some reporter really outdoes themselves and builds an independent chain of witnesses and testimony that backs those dates. With the dossier more or less 'out' now, however, accomplishing such a feat would require truly heroic measures. Edit: The best testimony/evidence we're liable to get in short order on many of the claims of the dossier rests in these 187 pages of testimony.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;53038946]Let me put it this way: everything in the Steele dossier is confirmed 100% except for the piss tape.[/QUOTE] This isn't accurate, actually. Many key components of the dossier have been fully verified, but there are also still notable sections of it that have not. However, while there are still components yet to have been proven, and probably never will be, nothing whatsover has actually been discredited. We can comfortably state that 70-80% of the dossier is reliable, with 20-30% remaining uncertain, but we are at a big, fat 0% for information known to be false. That's noteworthy.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;53039004]This isn't accurate, accurately. Many key components of the dossier have been fully verified, but there are also still notable sections of it that have not. However, while there are still components yet to have been proven, and probably never will be, nothing whatsover has actually been discredited. We can comfortably state that 70-80% of the dossier is reliable, with 20-30% remaining uncertain, but we are at a big, fat 0% for information known to be false. That's noteworthy.[/QUOTE] Ah, thank you.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;53039004]This isn't accurate, accurately. Many key components of the dossier have been fully verified, but there are also still notable sections of it that have not. However, while there are still components yet to have been proven, and probably never will be, nothing whatsover has actually been discredited. We can comfortably state that 70-80% of the dossier is reliable, with 20-30% remaining uncertain, but we are at a big, fat 0% for information known to be false. That's noteworthy.[/QUOTE] Yes, but just because it isn't proven false doesn't mean it's automatically true. This isn't a Phoenix Wright game.
[QUOTE=V12US;53039018]Yes, but just because it isn't proven false doesn't mean it's automatically true. This isn't a Phoenix Wright game.[/QUOTE] Correct. Unlike a Phoenix Wright game the more claims coming from a singular source bear out to be proven true, the more likely that the source is wholly truthful. It's not 'automatically true' - it just becomes 'more likely to be true' the more things are proven to be true surrounding it.
[QUOTE=Firgof Umbra;53038993]I don't believe I've heard of public verification of those dates. That said, the investigations looking in to the claims of the Dossier are both being hurled about constantly and are being run by parties who seem only interested in [I]particular parts[/I] of the Dossier's provided intelligence. Whether or not those specific claims are even being investigated is suspect - I trust and hope that they are but have no proof to offer of that. That said, the FBI and SCO are likely building the proper timeline and are vetting this dossier as a secondary source. It is, after all, primarily HUMINT - and that can be sometimes unreliable. Nothing that has come out so far, however, has bore out to be 'wild fabrications' and so forth so at very least there were measures of control in place to attempt to ensure only credible HUMINT was gathered and used in these reports. Worse, if there is verifiable proof we're not likely to hear about it in the first place as that proof would likely remain 'under wraps' for fear of it damaging potential contacts and sources in valuable locations if sources were provided for said claims. In sum: If they do get verified, it's likely we'll only get to hear about it from 'anonymous sources' unless some reporter really outdoes themselves and builds an independent chain of witnesses and testimony that backs those dates. With the dossier more or less 'out' now, however, accomplishing such a feat would require truly heroic measures.[/QUOTE] To expand a bit, HUMINT is primarily a game of vetting sources. As Simpsons states, it's not a matter of verifying information, but discerning who is reliable, what they would know, why they would share it, and whether others who share similar reliability, access, and motivation to provide good Intel can provide corroborating accounts with prodding. You're going to have a lot of information that needs weeded out due to unreliability when utilizing HUMINT sources. That said, Christopher Steele was MI6's [I]lead[/I] intelligence officer on Russian affairs, and is broadly considered among the international intelligence community as one of the most credible Russianists on Earth. Seth Abraham notes that there are very few people in the world better capable than Steele for performing that function. [editline]9th January 2018[/editline] [QUOTE=V12US;53039018]Yes, but just because it isn't proven false doesn't mean it's automatically true. This isn't a Phoenix Wright game.[/QUOTE] I didn't say otherwise. What I said was, given how much HAS been proven true, how much of the circumstsntial evidence surrounding the claim has been proven true, the fact that nothing within the dossier has yet been proven untrue, and given the somewhat legendary reputation of the intelligence officer who compiled that Intel, it is [I]very likely[/I] to be true.
[QUOTE=EcksDee;53038714]But here's a question, even if his reporting is not [I]new[/I], does that mean his coverage of courtroom intrigue and legalese is wrong?[/QUOTE] See, that's the thing. He isn't just covering what is said in the courtroom. He takes little snippets, adds in his political lens and additions, and then reports it all as fact. So, for a quick example, Seth Abramson says, in one of the tweets on the last page, that the GOP asked Fusion GPS to look into Trump's secret deals. I'm reading the testimony myself, and that isn't at all what the guy said. He said that someone associated with the Republican party (he won't name who it was, what group they were representing, or who paid for the research) asked them to look generally at Trump, nothing more, nothing less. Nothing about some "secret deals." The deals and relationships he had were found as they were doing this generalized research. In his words: "You know, we also conducted a much broader sort of look at his entire career and his overseas investments in places like Europe and Latin America. You know, it wasn't really a Russia focused investigation for the first half of it." When asked which client (the republican or democrat) he was working with when Steele was doing research in Russia, he answers: " Q. And when you hired him to do the work, did the client -- were you still working for -- at any time did you work for two clients on this opposition research? Did they overlap, the two clients? A. I just don't know. I can just tell you that it was -- I mean, things follow the political cycle. So there was a point at which the Republican primaries were fundamentally over and the Democrats hadn't really begun yet. So there was some transition period. That's all I can say. I don't keep the books at my place. So I would feel -- I'm afraid to give you a wrong answer that. I just don't know." So, no, we still don't really know which client was working with Fusion GPS when they made the stuff in the Steele Dossier, especially when it comes to government officials, which didn't come up until later in the research, after Steele had come on board.
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;53038876]See what I fucking mean when I say this? lo and behold, in the span of a single fucking sentence, you went from to[/QUOTE] I mean are we forgetting the death of putins biggest critic just blocks away from the Red Square? It was murder but it wasn't ruled as an assassination, but everything we have points to it being JUST that. How do we/you/anyone verify reality and facts?
How quickly people rush to make this about other's opinions or deflect by trying to change the subject. Focus on how fucked Trump and his criminal friends are.
[QUOTE=New Cidem;53039047]How quickly people rush to make this about other's opinions or deflect by trying to change the subject. Focus on how fucked Trump and his criminal friends are.[/QUOTE] It's honestly getting to a point where I'm struggling to see the point in responding. Anybody who still refuses to acknowledge the legitimacy of this investigation and the likelihood that serious crimes have been committed against the people of the United States by the Trump administration has [I]chosen[/I] not to believe it. Every single defensive narrative put in place by Trump and the GOP has been smashed through one by one. Countless lies have been caught, multiple criminal indictments, and many more looming... Those who still aren't convinced just aren't going to be. They've already decided that this investigation is a farcical coup, and that's basically that. They've willfully chosen ignorance, and I just don't know how to convince somebody with that mentality to come back to reality.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;53039078]It's honestly getting to a point where I'm struggling to see the point in responding. Anybody who still refuses to acknowledge the legitimacy of this investigation and the likelihood that serious crimes have been committed against the people of the United States by the Trump administration has [I]chosen[/I] not to believe it. Every single defensive narrative put in place by Trump and the GOP has been smashed through one by one. Countless lies have been caught, multiple criminal indictments, and many more looming... Those who still aren't convinced just aren't going to be. They've already decided that this investigation is a farcical coup, and that's basically that. They've willfully chosen ignorance, and I just don't know how to convince somebody with that mentality to come back to reality.[/QUOTE] There's no way that Trump could have broken the law, says increasingly nervous man, after 4 separate indictments of colleagues.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;53039078]It's honestly getting to a point where I'm struggling to see the point in responding. Anybody who still refuses to acknowledge the legitimacy of this investigation and the likelihood that serious crimes have been committed against the people of the United States by the Trump administration has [I]chosen[/I] not to believe it. Every single defensive narrative put in place by Trump and the GOP has been smashed through one by one. Countless lies have been caught, multiple criminal indictments, and many more looming... Those who still aren't convinced just aren't going to be. They've already decided that this investigation is a farcical coup, and that's basically that. They've willfully chosen ignorance, and I just don't know how to convince somebody with that mentality to come back to reality.[/QUOTE] I dont think anybody here is denying this investigation. The only qualms in this thread so far is questioning theories around a potentially non-existent tape, and the potential murder or kidnapping of hookers that may or may not exist, who were potentially removed by Trump or his cohorts. The only thing being called into question in this thread is the dumb conspiracy theory construction.
...so, is it finally time to burn down the White House again? Or do we switch for a Trump tower, instead?
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;53039121]I dont think anybody here is denying this investigation. The only qualms in this thread so far is questioning theories around a potentially non-existent tape, and the potential murder or kidnapping of hookers that may or may not exist, who were potentially removed by Trump or his cohorts. The only thing being called into question in this thread is the dumb conspiracy theory construction.[/QUOTE] So your assertion is that the intelligence agencies of the world are just throwing together conspiracy theories based on their 'gut' or something? This is just me but that sounds [I]profoundly[/I] more a conspiracy theory.
[QUOTE=Firgof Umbra;53039139]So your assertion is that the intelligence agencies of the world are just throwing together conspiracy theories based on their 'gut' or something?[/QUOTE] I think what people are trying to point out is the tape at the very least is not something we can be certain exists, it's not really credible yet. It could be, but it isn't yet. The concept that hookers who may or may not have existed at all being killed is one that's on the fringe. Personally I don't know that I do believe, but if people did testify that people have died(Which this part did happen), and the tape does happen to exist, I don't think there's a huge stretch to say no name russian girls were killed in a country that still has an active and large sex trade. But I still don't have any evidence of that, none of us do.
[QUOTE=Firgof Umbra;53039139]So your assertion is that the intelligence agencies of the world are just throwing together conspiracy theories based on their 'gut' or something?[/QUOTE] You would be a fool to believe every line of intelligence that comes from intelligence agencies. HUMINT rarely is. I'm sure theres reports of this tape existing, but personally I'm taking it with a grain of salt until the tapes pop up or some evidence of them does. My point here is maybe focus on the rest of the verified/verifiable evidence here rather than pointlessly construing conspiracy theories to fit our narrative.
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;53039149]You would be a fool to believe every line of intelligence that comes from intelligence agencies. HUMINT rarely is. I'm sure theres reports of this tape existing, but personally I'm taking it with a grain of salt until the tapes pop up or some evidence of them does. My point here is maybe focus on the rest of the verified/verifiable evidence here rather than pointlessly construing conspiracy theories to fit our narrative.[/QUOTE] The thing is I'm not. These are the theories [I]being provided by said intelligence agencies[/I]. I think you'd be a fool to 'default to assuming that when the intelligence agencies agree something is a thing, that isn't any sort of evidence that said thing is a thing'. It seems to me less that you're taking it with a grain of salt and more taking it with an entire truck full of salt - which I don't think is warranted at all at this juncture. [quote=ilikecorn]Lets discuss facts and only facts, lets stop sitting and saying "oh well x is true so therefore y and z are true, it's all here on this cork board i've created".[/quote] I agree. Let's take expert testimony by people in the know as 'things that are likely to be true' and stop saying [I]"LOL NICE CORKBOARD"[/I].
[QUOTE=Firgof Umbra;53039157]The thing is I'm not. These are the theories [I]being provided by said intelligence agencies[/I]. I think you'd be a fool to 'default to assuming that the intelligence agencies of the world, when they agree on something, isn't any sort of evidence that said thing is a thing'. It seems to me less that you're taking it with a grain of salt and more taking it with an entire truck full of salt - which I don't think is warranted at all at this juncture. I agree. Let's take expert testimony by people in the know as 'things that are likely to be true' and stop saying [I]"LOL NICE CORKBOARD"[/I].[/QUOTE] Can you cite me an article where someone credible from the CIA, or similar agency, states the credibility of the piss tape, specifically what it contains, and in their opinion that Trump and Friends/Putin and Friends had the 2 hookers from the tape murdered? As far as I can tell, Intelligence Agencies [i]think [/i]the tape existed at some point. I haven't seen anything official on government mandated murders.
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;53039171]Can you cite me an article where someone credible from the CIA, or similar agency, states the credibility of the piss tape, specifically what it contains, and in their opinion that Trump and Friends/Putin and Friends had the 2 hookers from the tape murdered? As far as I can tell, Intelligence Agencies [i]think [/i]the tape existed at some point. I haven't seen anything official on government mandated murders.[/QUOTE] [quote]The dossier's "pee-pee tape" claim is viewed with derision by most Western spies who know the Russians. It's very likely the Kremlin possesses kompromat on the president -- [u]senior intelligence sources from several countries have confirmed to me that unpleasant videos of Trump exist[/u] -- yet there's no reason to believe Steele's particular claim here without corroborating evidence. [...] [U]As many as a dozen intelligence services worldwide, on four continents, are in possession of some sort of 'Trump tape' featuring sexual escapades of a controversial nature; in some cases, the women involved appear to be underage.[/U] Some of these tapes have been shared with the Mueller investigation.[/quote] Their problem with the tape isn't that it exists - but whether or not said tape wasn't doctored. In so many words: 'It exists' and there's at least one agency out there that claims it feels very confident that what they have is a 'genuine article'. There's no question that 'tapes exist'; no question that those tapes are kompromat; no question that Trump sees them as blackmail despite asserting that the 'dodgy dossier' is entirely fabricated. [url=http://observer.com/2017/11/spy-circles-suspect-kremlin-is-behind-dozens-of-fake-trump-sex-tapes/]The major rift here isn't that said tape exists, but what's on it - where it was taken - what was done on it - and where the tape came from before it wound up in intelligence service hands.[/url] Make no bones about it though: If the tape exists and the dossier is accurate we don't need an intelligence service saying so to correctly guess the odds that said hookers are either permanent guests of the state or dead at this time. And in any case, brass tacks: It doesn't [I]matter[/I] if the dossier is accurate if [U]Trump[/U] thinks there's a tape out there with kompromat on it about him. He's bounded around the globe a lot, always stays in hotels, and is well-known for his outrageous claims and parties - and there have been many a salacious claim levied against him by women he's slept with. So long as [I]Trump[/I] thinks he's being blackmailed and that said tape exists -- then it almost doesn't matter whether or not Russia actually [U]has[/U] a copy of the tape they claim to have.
[QUOTE=Firgof Umbra;53039184]Their problem with the tape isn't that it exists - but whether or not said tape wasn't doctored. In so many words: 'It exists' and there's at least one agency out there that claims it feels very confident that what they have is a 'genuine article'. There's no question that 'tapes exist'; no question that those tapes are kompromat; no question that Trump sees them as blackmail despite asserting that the 'dodgy dossier' is entirely fabricated. [url=http://observer.com/2017/11/spy-circles-suspect-kremlin-is-behind-dozens-of-fake-trump-sex-tapes/]The major rift here isn't that said tape exists, but what's on it - where it was taken - what was done on it - and where the tape came from before it wound up in intelligence service hands.[/url] Make no bones about it though: If the tape exists and the dossier is accurate we don't need an intelligence service saying so to correctly guess the odds that said hookers are either permanent guests of the state or dead at this time. And in any case, brass tacks: It doesn't [I]matter[/I] if the dossier is accurate if [U]Trump[/U] thinks there's a tape out there with kompromat on it about him. He's bounded around the globe a lot, always stays in hotels, and is well-known for his outrageous claims and parties - and there have been many a salacious claim levied against him by women he's slept with. So long as [I]Trump[/I] thinks he's being blackmailed and that said tape exists -- then it almost doesn't matter whether or not Russia actually [U]has[/U] a copy of the tape they claim to have.[/QUOTE] Oh ok so pretty much what I've been saying. The tape [i]might [/i] exist, but everything past that is just theorizing and speculations. Any claims of these hookers existing and being murdered is blatant conspiracy theories, unless you've got a verified intelligence source stating otherwise.
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;53039198]Oh ok so pretty much what I've been saying. The tape [i]might [/i] exist, but everything past that is just theorizing and speculations. Any claims of these hookers existing and being murdered is blatant conspiracy theories, unless you've got a verified intelligence source stating otherwise.[/QUOTE] No, [I]'it does exist'[/I] is their consensus. It's not a conspiracy theory. You're being either facetious or obstinate. Re-read what they wrote. You calling it a 'conspiracy theory' in the face of intelligence agencies agreeing 'tapes exist and we have them' is ridiculous. That there were hookers on the tape and that there was urine involved is a claim the Dossier makes, yes, but that doesn't 'make it a conspiracy theory' as, on the face of it, it's a piece of collected intelligence. Whether or not that intelligence is accurate is anyone's guess in the IC -- however there's strong argument that it could, seeing as other tapes like it do exist, intelligence agencies have them, and Trump has been reported to engage in acts similar to those described in the dossier.
Honestly, I believe the tape exists. Trump is the type of fool to fall for a tactic that the Soviets/post-Soviets have used on every foreign nation since the 50s. But I'm not going to theorize past that since there's no proof that the tape exists past HUMINT thinking it does or claiming they have copies they won't release. [editline]10th January 2018[/editline] [QUOTE=Firgof Umbra;53039207]No, [I]'it does exist'[/I] is their consensus. It's not a conspiracy theory. You're being either facetious or obstinate. Re-read what they wrote. You calling it a 'conspiracy theory' in the face of intelligence agencies agreeing 'tapes exist and we have them' is ridiculous. That there were hookers on the tape and that there was urine involved is a claim the Dossier makes, yes, but that doesn't 'make it a conspiracy theory' as, on the face of it, it's a piece of collected intelligence. Whether or not that intelligence is accurate is anyone's guess in the IC -- however there's strong argument that it could, seeing as other tapes like it do exist, intelligence agencies have them, and Trump has been reported to engage in acts similar to those described in the dossier.[/QUOTE] I'm calling the theory of "X had hookers killed" a conspiracy theory, not the tape. There is no evidence whatsoever to suggest that.
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;53039213]Honestly, I believe the tape exists. Trump is the type of fool to fall for a tactic that the Soviets/post-Soviets have used on every foreign nation since the 50s. But I'm not going to theorize past that since there's no proof that the tape exists past HUMINT thinking it does or claiming they have copies they won't release.[/QUOTE] Yeah, I know, you won't 'theorize past that' but you'll say 'you guys are conspiracy theorists' for looking at the evidence and going 'yeah, that seems pretty reasonable'. It's more credible a theory - and one supported by a so far well-self-establishing dossier - and one that's supported in respects by surrounding intelligence. [quote]There is no evidence whatsoever to suggest that.[/quote] If there were hookers and there was this tape, there's no evidence of it no. However, it's a bit like saying 'you can't prove Hitler would kill this jew' despite me being able to point to all the other jews Hitler killed.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.