• Trump picks opponent of higher minimum wage for Labor Dept
    248 replies, posted
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51500958]Conch, is your idea of the american dream, the american ideal to work multiple jobs while putting yourself through school? Is the ideal american worker working so many hours a week they lose perspective? How many hours a week does the ideal worker work in your mind Conch?[/QUOTE] As many as the corporation wants us to. Any complaining and you're just a lazy mooch!
[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;51500927]We need to raise the minimum wage, period. Maybe not by extreme amounts but we need to start gradually making up for failing to adjust over time. $7.25 an hour isn't getting any more buying power. I hate that people are trying to [I]widen[/I] the wage gap. It's not sustainable. When you pay everyone dirt and work them to death they have neither the time nor the money to buy your shit.[/QUOTE] It's even more astounding that these corporations don't understand that if they're paying their employees pennies,[I] they won't have anyone to buy their products or goods because no one will be able to afford them.[/I] It's such a mindbogglingly short term strategy with catastrophic consequences. A god damn high school student should be able to understand how unsustainable that system is.
[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51500962]Those laws don't change with economics though. As for the military, if you've been disqualified then you go to college. Can't afford? Do what I said above, write some essays lol. As for people that can get in, if you choose your MOS to be infantry or anything without outside applicable skills you did that to yourself. The Navy and the Army both have your MOS in your CONTRACT, so you know exactly what you're getting BEFORE you sign. The Army has over 200 jobs, and a large percentage of them have life applicable skills you can use once you get out.[/QUOTE] College is not as simple as 'write some essays lol'.
[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51500962]Those laws don't change with economics though. As for the military, if you've been disqualified then you go to college. Can't afford? Do what I said above, write some essays lol. As for people that can get in, if you choose your MOS to be infantry or anything without outside applicable skills you did that to yourself. The Navy and the Army both have your MOS in your CONTRACT, so you know exactly what you're getting BEFORE you sign. The Army has over 200 jobs, and a large percentage of them have life applicable skills you can use once you get out.[/QUOTE] Do you honestly think you can afford to go to the most colleges and universities in the US based on essays? Seriously, do you think you can pay for your college solely through that? Or are you, as I suspect, being incredible disingenuous?
[QUOTE=LtKyle2;51500967]It's even more astounding that these corporations don't understand that if they're paying their employees pennies,[I] they won't have anyone to buy their products or goods because no one will be able to afford them.[/I] It's such a mindbogglingly short term strategy with catastrophic consequences. A god damn high school student should be able to understand how unsustainable that system is.[/QUOTE] Maybe they're all planning to retire when the economy collapses on 1% Island.
Right, so I take back my statement on $8 is something to agree on in minimum wage. Instead, I'd say that $10 seems an acceptable minimum wage, as it seems to meet with most of the living wages. However, some people argue here that raising the minimum wage would increase productivity. However, there is no proof that this would be guaranteed in US. There was a case which British companies have increased wages, which has increased productivity. However, the British companies have increased them [B]voluntarily[/B]. Raising federal minimum wage is not voluntary, therefore, it would not guarantee increased productivity. Here are my sources: [url]http://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/do-employees-work-harder-for-higher-pay[/url] [url]http://www.economist.com/blogs/buttonwood/2016/04/minimum-wages[/url]
[QUOTE=PsycheClops;51500975]Right, so I take back my statement on $8 is something to agree on in minimum wage. Instead, I'd say that $10 seems an acceptable minimum wage, as it seems to meet with most of the living wages. However, some people argue here that raising the minimum wage would increase productivity. However, there is no proof that this would be guaranteed in US. There was a case which British companies have increased wages, which has increased productivity. However, the British companies have increased them [B]voluntarily[/B]. Raising federal minimum wage is not voluntary, therefore, it would not guarantee increased productivity. Here are my sources: [url]http://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/do-employees-work-harder-for-higher-pay[/url] [url]http://www.economist.com/blogs/buttonwood/2016/04/minimum-wages[/url][/QUOTE] The US does not need an increase in productivity. The US is already one of the most productive nations on earth, and to assume it needs to raise that higher is wrong, IMO.
I understand the whole "pulling yourself up by your bootstraps" thing republicans love to talk about, but with the modern US class system, not everyone has equal opportunities for everything. Poverty is not always an individual failure and getting out of it is not as simple as "going to college or the military".
If you have someone who's productive enough to do the work of two people, now you're only using one person to do two peoples work, you're not getting more jobs out of a more productive economy. You're getting less.
[QUOTE=KillRay;51500979]I understand the whole "pulling yourself up by your bootstraps" thing republicans love to talk about, but with the modern US class system, not everyone has equal opportunities for everything. Poverty is not always an individual failure.[/QUOTE] I'd say poverty is rarely an individual failure. Upclass mobility is extremely rare nowadays in the States.
[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51500962]As for people that can get in, if you choose your MOS to be infantry or anything without outside applicable skills you did that to yourself.[/QUOTE] Yeah, you can fuck right off A veteran shouldn't be put into poverty for choosing to serve the country
[QUOTE=Chonch;51500959]I'm sorry to hear that. If you don't mind me asking, did you go to a private or boarding school somewhere? I grew up in a meth-addled town in the Midwest and IIRC the Feds paid your <$3 lunches if you couldn't come up with the money, which usually was about a third of my class. Surely there's someone around your town who would pay you to do their yardwork/clean gutters/dig their mother's grave etc.[/QUOTE] It was a public school. My stepdad just made too much for me to qualify for free lunch and refused to pay for it, especially after I got a job. And not really. I didn't really live in an area where any of my neighbors needed jobs done. I lived in a mobile home park so there were already a lot of people around always mowing peoples' lawns and such. Either way though I was a lot more focused on graduating high school then trying to get into college. Though that plan fell through regardless. Just like with free lunch my stepdad refused to pay for me to go to college and made too much for me to qualify for financial aid. And even when I had a full time job basically all of my money went to food, rent, or my car (car wasn't optional because I worked graveyard shift and it was an hour commute each way even with the car) I couldn't have paid my own way through. I tried again when I turned 25 since parental income is no longer taken into account but they repeatedly lost my paperwork.
[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51500806]You're delusional. Go to college and get a real job or join the military. Don't want to do all that work? :( Okay then, go work construction. You don't need college for that.[/QUOTE] sure i'd love to go to college since like every civilized country on the planet, america provides reasonably priced higher education for all citizens oh wait
[QUOTE=LtKyle2;51500931]Because that fifty-seven year old man did not have the opportunity to go to college, and is unable to find any decent job that does not require a college degree. That fifty-seven year old comes from a generation when a high school diploma was all you needed to get by and could land a nice factory job. That fifty-seven year old could also have some form of injury that prevent hims from working in professions like construction, or had health issues that stopped him from getting in the military. Not every middle aged individual is going to have some great job, not everyone is that fucking lucky in this world. For fuck sakes the very job of a cashier is one of the most in demand in New Jersey along with accountants, secretaries, and other human services. My father is turning 60 next year, he did not get to go college as a youth, why? Because he, even as a straight white male, was not eligible for any form of federal financial aid in his youth. Despite coming from some poor, working class family that barely scraped by he went into the military during the Carter years [I]because that was the only option open to him.[/I] After his ex-wife fucked him over and forced him to leave the military she bled him dry of all his money and almost caused him to starve to death because of how much child support was taking from him. In the end the only reason he makes a living wage is because he is a part of a union that provides a health plan and fights a Congress that is continuously trying to bleed the USPS dry so they have a excuse to privatize the postal sector. Just because you're old doesn't mean you went to college, or had the opportunity to land a good job. People who have worked hard their whole life can still get fucked over in the end. Being a cashier is not some high school/college student job, this stereotype only exists because its the only job in abundance in our country. It's a fabricated myth by conservatives. My mother worked two jobs and only barely made more than the minimum wage, one of those two is unionized and I don't even think they offer a health plan. She's a dependent under my father. Fuck off with this 'where oh where did the working man go?' they didn't go anywhere, they just kept getting shafted. I doubt you're even going to read all of this and just spout off some conservative stereotype again about work ethics or something equally asinine.[/QUOTE] Blah blah economic libido health of the nation blah and whatnot. Really though, what happened to that factory job? Is the old cashier man a true story or did you make that up? It reads plausibly. Certainly we need to take better care of our older citizens, especially since we're all living longer (or so they say), but I'm just not sure why we seem to have left elderly workers behind so terribly. [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51500958]Conch, is your idea of the american dream, the american ideal to work multiple jobs while putting yourself through school? Is the ideal american worker working so many hours a week they lose perspective? How many hours a week does the ideal worker work in your mind Conch?[/QUOTE] I dunno, forty? Forty seems like an okay number to me. IIRC it's actually a little high compared to other first-world-nations. Obviously you can't do that if you're putting yourself through school, but you gotta compromise somewhere I suppose.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51500969]Do you honestly think you can afford to go to the most colleges and universities in the US based on essays? Seriously, do you think you can pay for your college solely through that? Or are you, as I suspect, being incredible disingenuous?[/QUOTE] There's also a thing called student loans. With student loans and scholarships you are being begged to come get an education for near nothing, yet people refuse to do so, they'd rather complain. Here's an idea: Go to community college, get an associates degree. Transfer credits to your 4 year college.
[QUOTE=Chonch;51501006] I dunno, forty? Forty seems like an okay number to me. IIRC it's actually a little high compared to other first-world-nations. Obviously you can't do that if you're putting yourself through school, but you gotta compromise somewhere I suppose.[/QUOTE] But you can't compromise if you're poor, and have to work minimum wage jobs. Minimum wage in a lot of places isn't livable alone. That means you need 2 jobs. If you work 2 jobs, there is no compromise. There is almost no wiggle room at all for you.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51500978]The US does not need an increase in productivity. The US is already one of the most productive nations on earth, and to assume it needs to raise that higher is wrong, IMO.[/QUOTE] It's worth noting that we are more productive than ever and have been steadily rising that way and yet wages do not reflect the increase in productivity like they used to. An overwhelming majority of Americans support minimum wage increase. This is a matter of the people vs the corporations, with the Republicans feeding their supporters absolute drivel about minimum wage because it benefits corporations if we believe we aren't getting fucked.
[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51501011]There's also a thing called student loans. With student loans and scholarships you are being begged to come get an education for near nothing, yet people refuse to do so, they'd rather complain. Here's an idea: Go to community college, get an associates degree. Transfer credits to your 4 year college.[/QUOTE] Student loans in the States are a trap and many people who graduate in the States now will be repaying those loans, not for a few years, not even for five years, but for decades. The education system in the States is broken.
[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51501011]There's also a thing called student loans. With student loans and scholarships you are being begged to come get an education for near nothing, yet people refuse to do so, they'd rather complain. Here's an idea: Go to community college, get an associates degree. Transfer credits to your 4 year college.[/QUOTE] What do you not get that it doesn't guarantee you a high paying job just by going to college, you don't leave with a job and you may have to work too much to actively pursue a job for your degree
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;51500992]Applicable skills in a very specific area that may or may not be hiring at the time. You can't know what the job market is going to do in 4 years. And while you get your MOS/Rating in your contract, you only get what's open to you. Yes you can refuse to sign, but then you're at square one.. no job. In short: the military is great.. if you luck out and get exactly what you're looking to get out of it. You have SOME control, but at the end of the day, you're their bitch. I watched a few co-workers come in to work and get told "so you can't stay a corpsman.. so you can pick from these 3 ratings.. or get out" I do wish you the best of luck, I really do. I hope you get everything out of the military that you're hoping to get. But just realize that that shit doesn't happen 99% of the time.. so don't walk around thinking that it does. Also most of those "write an essay" scholarships are a single payment, if you go that route you're not walking away from college without a soul crushing level of debt. Again, i've run that race (well, helped run that race, VA benefits for school aren't terrible)[/QUOTE] Recruiters want you. That's what they get paid to do. However they also have to meet certain quotas on which areas that people enlist into. They will tell you "oh this option isn't available right now," but that is a lie. Play hardball, don't play into their game. You will get the job you want if you keep pestering them. Worst case? Say no way jose, walk away for a few weeks. Come back, go to a different recruiter. I'm telling you you will get the job you want.
[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51501011]There's also a thing called student loans. With student loans and scholarships you are being begged to come get an education for near nothing, yet people refuse to do so, they'd rather complain. Here's an idea: Go to community college, get an associates degree. Transfer credits to your 4 year college.[/QUOTE] Yeah that's what it is. People are being served college on a silver platter and refusing because they wanna complain because they're lazy. Except that's ridiculous and completely unrealistic behavior. Maybe instead of everyone acting like dumb stereotypes, they're actually [I]not[/I] being served college on a silver platter.
[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51501011]There's also a thing called student loans. With student loans and scholarships you are being begged to come get an education for near nothing, yet people refuse to do so, they'd rather complain. Here's an idea: Go to community college, get an associates degree. Transfer credits to your 4 year college.[/QUOTE] Okay yes, and that's all done with an "Essay"? as you said? No. That involves taking on a life changing amount of debt. You're actually offering problems, not fucking solutions but you're so far up your own ass that you see these as solutions. They're not. To anyone else, you're selling problems and acting like everything is fine. You're so insulated from the world my guess is that you honestly don't know how these things work. [editline]8th December 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Chonch;51501006] I dunno, forty? Forty seems like an okay number to me. IIRC it's actually a little high compared to other first-world-nations. Obviously you can't do that if you're putting yourself through school, but you gotta compromise somewhere I suppose.[/QUOTE] To be honest, I was expecting a ridiculous number. 40 is about what a "Full time" job is.
This guy isn't anti higher minimum wage, he's anti 15 dollar minimum wage. And you know what? Hes' right. Patty-flippers don't earn 15 dollars an hour for the company, neither do baggers at grocery stores. If you up the minimum wage that much, guess what happens to those jobs? They fly into the abyss, and companies will either A. Raise prices to make up for the lower profits B. Fire a bunch of staff and make the existing staff work harder C. Close entirely
[QUOTE=KillRay;51501031]What do you not get that it doesn't guarantee you a high paying job just by going to college, you don't leave with a job and you may have to work too much to actively pursue a job for your degree[/QUOTE] You're right, there is no guarantee. That doesn't mean once should just not do it. Honestly the best route is the military unless you're medically disqualified. You don't even have to go active duty, do reserves, do ROTC. It's an opportunity just waiting for you to take.
[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51501058]You're right, there is no guarantee. That doesn't mean once should just not do it. Honestly the best route is the military unless you're medically disqualified. You don't even have to go active duty, do reserves, do ROTC. It's an opportunity just waiting for you to take.[/QUOTE] No.
[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51501036]Recruiters want you. That's what they get paid to do. However they also have to meet certain quotas on which areas that people enlist into. They will tell you "oh this option isn't available right now," but that is a lie. Play hardball, don't play into their game. You will get the job you want if you keep pestering them. Worst case? Say no way jose, walk away for a few weeks. Come back, go to a different recruiter. I'm telling you you will get the job you want.[/QUOTE] This, so much. If you get an AFQT of 50 (which is the average score, you'd have to be really dumb or not give a shit to score lower than it) or higher on the ASVAB, a lot of jobs are open to you. Any higher than a 80 or so, and pretty much any job can be yours.
[QUOTE=KillRay;51501017]But you can't compromise if you're poor, and have to work minimum wage jobs. Minimum wage in a lot of places isn't livable alone. That means you need 2 jobs. If you work 2 jobs, there is no compromise. There is almost no wiggle room at all for you.[/QUOTE] I might have to give you this one, I don't really understand what "poor" means to you. Is it a social thing or an economic thing? I figure if you're living frugally and around the poverty line you can get by pretty decently and not really be "poor" per se--assuming you're single with no dependents. That kind of thing can really fuck people's lives up, is that what you're talking about? [QUOTE=Derek_SM;51501011]There's also a thing called student loans. With student loans and scholarships you are being begged to come get an education for near nothing, yet people refuse to do so, they'd rather complain. Here's an idea: Go to community college, get an associates degree. Transfer credits to your 4 year college.[/QUOTE] We have a winner, folks. The idea's terrible, but Sallie Mae has gotten so bloated that I won't even fault you for jumping onto the 50k federal student loan train. They hand that shit out like candy. The bubble's gonna burst in like ten years though so you better hitch a ride quick. [QUOTE=ilikecorn;51501026]Except that 4 year degree refuses to accept 20 of your credits, so you get to retake those 20 credits at a 4 year for the cost of a 4 year. Believe it or not, universities aren't obligated to take outside credit, and they go OUT OF THEIR WAY to not take outside credit as much as possible. Why? Because they know they can squeeze another 800$ out of you if you have to take something stupid like college algebra again.[/QUOTE] In my state, the local state schools all have articulation agreements with the community colleges to transfer your full two years of credit if you go for an AA. Take the right classes and you can spin that off into a Mathematics bachelor, which opens up a world of options. That's just one example. How do things go in your state?
[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51501011]There's also a thing called student loans. With student loans and scholarships you are being begged to come get an education for near nothing, yet people refuse to do so, they'd rather complain. Here's an idea: Go to community college, get an associates degree. Transfer credits to your 4 year college.[/QUOTE] mate i'm pretty sure we voted for the same candidate and i still think your argument is dumb student loans these days put people back tens of thousands in debt. it's not exactly the best way to get ahead
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51501043]To be honest, I was expecting a ridiculous number. 40 is about what a "Full time" job is.[/QUOTE] I'm not completely insane. Really though, my personal dream is closer to fifty hours. [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51501062]No.[/QUOTE] Go on?
[QUOTE=Michael haxz;51500342]This is the president you picked people [B][I][U]YOU DID THIS[/U][/I][/B][/QUOTE] No we didn't
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