• Trump picks opponent of higher minimum wage for Labor Dept
    248 replies, posted
The military simply isn't for everyone and that applies across the whole world. I sure as hell wouldn't be able to join our military for example for a variety of reasons, and nor do I want to. That shouldn't mean my only other choice is college. Luckily our education system isn't broken and I do admit I am in uni so it colours my views somewhat, but I know several people who have instead done a trade and gotten good jobs and livelihoods as well.
[QUOTE=Monkah;51501068]mate i'm pretty sure we voted for the same candidate and i still think your argument is dumb student loans these days put people back tens of thousands in debt. it's not exactly the best way to get ahead[/QUOTE] I'm not disagreeing with that. You should really only use student loans if you have a shit job as-is and no money, to qualify you for a better job down the road, so that you can pay off that debt.
The current minimum wage and anything below inflation protects the interests of corporations and that of foreign interests. And the idea that if you increase minimum wage you then decrease the value of the dollar. The increase in the amount of cash being printed due to higher wages; is not the only thing that decides what the value of the dollar is.
[QUOTE=Chonch;51501006]Blah blah economic libido health of the nation blah and whatnot. Really though, what happened to that factory job? Is the old cashier man a true story or did you make that up? It reads plausibly. Certainly we need to take better care of our older citizens, especially since we're all living longer (or so they say), but I'm just not sure why we seem to have left elderly workers behind so terribly. [/QUOTE] That old cashier man is not a true story, it is a example that represents the different circumstances that controls each individuals life. That old cashier man could be someone who wasn't able to go to college, he could've been someone with health problems from a young age that excluded him from going into the military, he could've been someone with some form of severe injury that prevents him from working most jobs. He could've been someone whose factory they worked closed down and was left with no options. That example is meant to tell you that not every old cashier is someone who didn't bother to work hard, or that every old person is someone who must've went to college because you did as well so they obviously must've. People have different circumstances in their life that affects them. The cost of living is different from state to state, it's going to be significantly, even worlds more expensive to live in New Jersey than it is to live in South Carolina. A $1,000,000 dollar home in NJ would be $300,000 in SC. For fuck sakes my grandfather moved to the south because it was incredibly cheaper to retire there than it is here, and both the republicans and democrats are at fault for this because of how expensive housing and insurance is and how much taxes the residents here are hit with. A $10 wage that would be enough to get by smoothly in Kentucky or South Carolina would be no where near enough to scrape by in New Jersey or New York.
[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51501084]I'm not disagreeing with that. You should really only use student loans if you have a shit job as-is and no money, to qualify you for a better job down the road, so that you can [B]pay off that debt.[/B][/QUOTE] But THAT's the problem, it's extremely difficult to pay off that debt in the States, it is a terrible burden. I'm not saying not to go to college or university (for quite a number of people it is the correct choice) but it's not right for everyone and it is incredibly difficult to upskill through university or become a mature student.
[QUOTE=Chonch;51501065]I might have to give you this one, I don't really understand what "poor" means to you. Is it a social thing or an economic thing? I figure if you're living frugally and around the poverty line you can get by pretty decently and not really be "poor" per se--assuming you're single with no dependents. That kind of thing can really fuck people's lives up, is that what you're talking about? [/QUOTE] Even living frugally, by themselves, in my state many people I know can't live (even frugally) off of one minimum wage job. Getting basic things like actual shelter like an apartment (meaning not living out of a car), having a cell phone on a basic plan to talk to employers, and eating as much cheap food without getting fast food as possible require 2 minimum wage jobs to pay for. They can't just "live frugally", their whole existance is frugal. They're trying to just survive comfortably. This is opportunity cost. They've chosen to try and survive than go for an education. Because with an education, it would cost a ton, even if it's just down the line with loans. But going to class means leaving a job, which means they might have to sacrifice one of their basic living requirements. So, they can't get educated because they don't have the time. Because they don't have the time they can't build good skills to move to living wage jobs. Because they can't get to the higher wage jobs, they often get stuck at the bottom of the ladder. Being poor is both social and economic. The modern lower class has no wiggle room because minimum wage is not livable.
[QUOTE=Michael haxz;51500342]This is the president you picked people [B][I][U]YOU DID THIS[/U][/I][/B][/QUOTE] Nope, you can blame the lack of key demographic involvement on Hillary's side at important states.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;51501081]Assuming PERSCOM has that job open. You can have an ASVAB of 90 and still not get the job you want. It flat out depends on what they have open. If you want a job that's always in demand (like navy nuke) then yea, you'll get what you want. If you want something that's not always open, it's going to be luck of the draw. I speak from experience. I went to MEPS 4 different times because the rating I wanted (HM) wasn't open. On the 4th time it was, and I signed that shit really fucking quick.[/QUOTE] I'm not exactly sure how correct you are on that, but worst case just keep coming back every couple weeks to try to get the job. It won't take more than a few times (and in my case, I got my MOS first try.) Are you positive about this? You don't go down to MEPS with a contract and they tell you it's not open anymore.
[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51501084]I'm not disagreeing with that. You should really only use student loans if you have a shit job as-is and no money, to qualify you for a better job down the road, so that you can pay off that debt.[/QUOTE] Qualifying for a job /=/ getting that job. A lot of people get their degrees, and still work at dominos for years because they can't get hired. And those student loan debts are still gonna be knocking.
[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51500962] As for the military, if you've been disqualified then you go to college. Can't afford? Do what I said above, write some essays lol. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Derek_SM;51500886]Are you kidding me? Write a damn essay: Boom, here have a scholarship.[/QUOTE] this isn't how scholarships or college work you chucklefuck thundercunt [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Flaming" - OvB))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=KillRay;51501104]Even living frugally, by themselves, in my state many people I know can't live (even frugally) off of one minimum wage job. Getting basic things like actual shelter like an apartment (meaning not living out of a car), having a cell phone on a basic plan to talk to employers, and eating as much cheap food without getting fast food as possible require 2 minimum wage jobs to pay for. They can't just "live frugally", their whole existance is frugal. They're trying to just survive comfortably. This is opportunity cost. They've chosen to try and survive than go for an education. Because with an education, it would cost a ton, even if it's just down the line with loans. But going to class means leaving a job, which means they might have to sacrifice one of their basic living requirements. So, they can't get educated because they don't have the time. Because they don't have the time they can't build good skills to move to living wage jobs. Because they can't get to the higher wage jobs, they often get stuck at the bottom of the ladder. Being poor is both social and economic. The modern lower class has no wiggle room because minimum wage is not livable.[/QUOTE] I should probably note that I'm not against a higher federal minimum wage, just that a $15 one is ridiculous. The federal minimum wage of $7.25 is too low right now, and is far behind what it should be. States should regulate minimum wage as a wage in California is not the same as one in say Michigan. MD's minimum wage is $8.75 right now and I think its decent. It's moving to $9.25 july 1, 2017 iirc. The Federal Government should pick up the slack that some states refuse to pick up (such as Virginia) As of right now I think the federal minimum wage should lie anywhere between $8.75 and $9.50 [editline]8th December 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=HAKKAR!!!;51501133]this isn't how scholarships or college work you chucklefuck thundercunt[/QUOTE] I don't know how it is in Australia but I'm talking about the United States and you most certainly do get scholarships from simply writing an essay. But thanks for the kind words. [editline]8th December 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Mister Sandman;51501124]Qualifying for a job /=/ getting that job. A lot of people get their degrees, and still work at dominos for years because they can't get hired. And those student loan debts are still gonna be knocking.[/QUOTE] I worked fast food and I know how it is for some people. A guy I worked with had some science degree but couldn't find a job. He got an internship and now has a nice job.
[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51501135]I should probably note that I'm not against a higher federal minimum wage, just that a $15 one is ridiculous. The federal minimum wage of $7.25 is too low right now, and is far behind what it should be. States should regulate minimum wage as a wage in California is not the same as one in say Michigan. MD's minimum wage is $8.75 right now and I think its decent. It's moving to $9.25 july 1, 2017 iirc. The Federal Government should pick up the slack that some states refuse to pick up (such as Virginia) As of right now I think the federal minimum wage should lie anywhere between $8.75 and $9.50[/QUOTE] I can agree 15 is really high, but I think the exaggeration, that people clamor for something that high is worth noting. Cost of living has done nothing but go up. You even need communications now to get a job, meaning you now need to pay for a cell phone or the internet, which can be expensive depending on your local providers. The fact people think they need 15, minimum, to survive is supposed to be more telling of the times than taken completely literally imo.
I'd just like to point out that New Zealand has a minimum wage of $15.25 and we haven't collapsed. That's $10.94 USD. The US is a much wealthier country ($56k GDP per capita as opposed to NZ's $36K) so of course a raise would be affordable.
[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51501135] I don't know how it is in Australia but I'm talking about the United States and you most certainly do get scholarships from simply writing an essay. But thanks for the kind words. [/QUOTE] So what happens when and if you get a scholarship (which btw you're not just entitled to for writing an essay, they can be denied.) and your grades start to fuck up because you're working a minimum wage job to pay for food and rent and you lose it or you fucking kill yourself because working a full week of minimum wage work as well as doing a full college load is impossible for most people
[QUOTE=Chonch;51500883]The right isn't in control of corporations. What do prominent CEOs think of this? Hell, maybe when the pendulum swings back to the left they can try some radical wealth redistribution system within the corporate structure. Cap the CEO's pay or something. I'm just spit-balling here.[/QUOTE] They're not in control, but they support it because they [I]might[/I] get a piece of that pie, and so continue to vote in the same people who keep giving the abilities to dodge taxes and what-not to accumulate more wealth under the guise of "It'll help you, too! You'll see!" And as soon as you start talking about capping CEO's salaries, you're brought into the "You don't get to decide what they're worth!" argument while they continue to argue over the worth of the average working man/woman.
[QUOTE=KillRay;51501169]I can agree 15 is really high, but I think the exaggeration, that people clamor for something that high is worth noting. Cost of living has done nothing but go up. You even need communications now to get a job, meaning you now need to pay for a cell phone or the internet, which can be expensive depending on your local providers. The fact people think they need 15, minimum, to survive is supposed to be more telling of the times than taken completely literally imo.[/QUOTE] For the communications you're right, really the only way I can think to try and counter that is to first get a starter job and save that money for when you apply for another job. The people calling for $15 minimum wage say that for a negotiation standpoint -- or at least it was, I'm not so sure people aren't taking it literally now -- but all it has done is make those people look crazy and gets them ignored and laughed at.
Even putting aside the fact that "Just join the army" isn't an option for the [I]vast [/I]majority of the American public, is it really best for a society or it's military that people should feel forced to join out of economic desperation?
[QUOTE=HAKKAR!!!;51501188]So what happens when and if you get a scholarship (which btw you're not just entitled to for writing an essay, they can be denied.) and your grades start to fuck up because you're working a minimum wage job to pay for food and rent and you lose it or you fucking kill yourself because working a full week of minimum wage work as well as doing a full college load is impossible for most people[/QUOTE] Some scholarships are handed out like candy and there are crazy scholarships that you wouldn't think exist but do. Hell you can get a scholarship for being gay. Work with your employer, create a schedule around your college life. Many will understand and there's smaller companies who actually give you money back for having good grades in college.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;51501219]Even putting aside the fact that "Just join the army" isn't an option for the [I]vast [/I]majority of the American public, is it really best for a society or it's military that people should feel forced to join out of economic desperation?[/QUOTE] Especially when you hear about how under-funded a lot of those programs are, including basic necessities like healthcare.
[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51501245]Some scholarships are handed out like candy and there are crazy scholarships that you wouldn't think exist but do. Hell you can get a scholarship for being gay. Work with your employer, create a schedule around your college life. Many will understand and there's smaller companies who actually give you money back for having good grades in college.[/QUOTE] can you cite or source even one of those companies? Can you cite, or source, even one of these supposed scholarships you say will give you a full, or partial ride? Can you do any of that? Employers don't like to do make special schedules for employees going through school unless that's the bulk of their work force due to their location. All of your posts read as some of the most detached and unaware posts I've ever read in regards to the subject.
[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51501245]Some scholarships are handed out like candy and there are crazy scholarships that you wouldn't think exist but do. Hell you can get a scholarship for being gay. Work with your employer, create a schedule around your college life. Many will understand and there's smaller companies who actually give you money back for having good grades in college.[/QUOTE] do you have a single fact to back that up
[QUOTE=KillRay;51500950]School still isn't free, no matter how much financial aid you get. I don't mean money, but in opportunity costs. If you're working 2 jobs to barely survive on your own, you won't be able to go to school. There's not enough hours in the day.[/QUOTE] Most entry level jobs are not very flexible with hours. Some managers expect on call shifts from their employees. Even with a single job it can be very difficult to go to school for some people.
dunno about small businesses, but i'm pretty sure most universities have jobs ON campus that can be accommodated to your class schedule. i had plenty of friends do ID check-ins for the dorm buildings, and another would check buildings for problems and file work orders, and they were either during gaps between classes or later in the day.
[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51501058]Honestly the best route is the military unless you're medically disqualified.[/QUOTE] The military should [B]not[/B] be used or treated as a ticket out of poverty It requires both physical [B]and[/B] mental dedication. If you're gonna take a physically and mentally demanding job only for the money, you are: a) Going to have a bad time b) Not going meet your expected performance when the time comes that you do your job [I]properly[/I]
[QUOTE=Judas;51501304]do you have a single fact to back that up[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51501291]can you cite or source even one of those companies? Can you cite, or source, even one of these supposed scholarships you say will give you a full, or partial ride? Can you do any of that? Employers don't like to do make special schedules for employees going through school unless that's the bulk of their work force due to their location. All of your posts read as some of the most detached and unaware posts I've ever read in regards to the subject.[/QUOTE] Yes: Roy Rogers. Any scholarship is a partial ride.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;51501081]Assuming PERSCOM has that job open. You can have an ASVAB of 90 and still not get the job you want. It flat out depends on what they have open. If you want a job that's always in demand (like navy nuke) then yea, you'll get what you want. If you want something that's not always open, it's going to be luck of the draw. I speak from experience. I went to MEPS 4 different times because the rating I wanted (HM) wasn't open. On the 4th time it was, and I signed that shit really fucking quick.[/QUOTE] Actually making it through navy nuke school is an entirely different matter :v:
[QUOTE=T553412;51501314]The military should [B]not[/B] be used or treated as a ticket out of poverty It requires both physical [B]and[/B] mental dedication. If you're gonna take a physically and mentally demanding job only for the money, you are: a) Going to have a bad time b) Not going meet your expected performance when the time comes that you do your job [I]properly[/I][/QUOTE] Honestly the only physically demanding part is Basic Training, unless your MOS is infantry or something. Suck it up for 9 weeks. And I don't recommend taking those jobs only for the money, me personally I'm doing it to serve my country, and the money you get while in the military isn't jack shit really, but the benefits are a nice treat.
[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51501346]Honestly the only physically demanding part is Basic Training, unless your MOS is infantry or something. Suck it up for 9 weeks. And I don't recommend taking those jobs only for the money, me personally I'm doing it to serve my country, and the money you get while in the military isn't jack shit really, but the benefits are a nice treat.[/QUOTE] Keyword [B]mental[/B]. The military requires a different mindset. For most people, it'll be harder to adopt the military style of work. You think they're going to handle you a nice, comfortable desk job without a degree or any sort of reference? What about all the other people trying to get that very same job? And besides, you say that you "don't recommend taking those jobs only for the money". Yet in this thread you keep repeating over and over again how people should join the military, instead of living off minimum income. So which one is it?
[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51501321]Yes: Roy Rogers. Any scholarship is a partial ride.[/QUOTE] That isn't an answer, source, or citation
[QUOTE=Pops;51501312]dunno about small businesses, but i'm pretty sure most universities have jobs ON campus that can be accommodated to your class schedule. i had plenty of friends do ID check-ins for the dorm buildings, and another would check buildings for problems and file work orders, and they were either during gaps between classes or later in the day.[/QUOTE] That's great if you can make it into a university, not so great if you're from a middle-low income family.
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