Trump picks opponent of higher minimum wage for Labor Dept
248 replies, posted
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;51501375]
You must maintain physical standards, and WILL be expected to go to unit PT, regardless of what your MOS/Rating is. Unit PT will be whatever your CoC decides it is.. even if your intel, if your CoC says "yo we're doing 20 km hikes every morning" guess what you get to do.. 20km hikes.. every morning. Get hurt? Go to medical, get put on profile, return to your CoC with your profile, find out that they don't give a fuck about your profile, do 20 km hikes anyway, keep getting more and more broken.
Yep, military sure is fun.[/QUOTE]
Obviously you're going to have to do PT, the military doesn't want fatasses lol. It's really not all that physically demanding though, your body adapts.
[QUOTE=T553412;51501368]Keyword [B]mental[/B]. The military requires a different mindset. For most people, it'll be harder to adopt the military style of work.
You think they're going to handle you a nice, comfortable desk job without a degree or any sort of reference? What about all the other people trying to get that very same job?
And besides, you say that you "don't recommend taking those jobs only for the money". Yet in this thread you keep repeating over and over again how people should join the military, instead of living off minimum income.
So which one is it?[/QUOTE]
Obviously you should join the military with your country in mind is what I'm saying.
Joining the military is a nice way out of poverty imo.
No doubt it's mental, but so is practically every other job in the world, but perseverance is key.
What do you mean by "You think they're going to handle you a nice, comfortable desk job without a degree or any sort of reference?" Take the work experience gained from your MOS to the outside world.
What do you think looks better on a resume? "Oh I learned about computers and did some practice in college" or "I had actual experience with computers in the military for 4 years"
[QUOTE=Popularvote;51500302]"This just in, Trump selects Danny Devito as head of presidential committee on pretty people."[/QUOTE]
To be fair they share similar opinions on clinton so this possibility isn't far off
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51501448]That isn't an answer, source, or citation[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.fredericknewspost.com/archives/plamondon-employees-honored-for-usingcompany-s-tuition-reimbursement-program/article_628ac333-0c23-5c72-8828-c21c1e78b902.html[/url]
Plamondon is the parent company of Roy Rogers, who uses the tuition reimbursement program.
[QUOTE=Paramud;51501466]That's great if you can make it into a university, not so great if you're from a middle-low income family.[/QUOTE]
scholarships, grants and federal aid can help reduce the necessity of loans. i'm using myself as an example here, because i did exactly that going to a university, and i'm right in that middle-low income bracket you speak of.
"perseverance is key" did you not realize that the military isn't for everybody, and for argument's sake, if you're talking about special forces, that's a bunch of hardass shit over and above regular servicemen.
Being other than honorably discharged or discharged for bad conduct is going to look far worse on your record than a desk job.
Personally speaking, I'm no scholarship kid despite scoring in the high 90 percentile overall in the high school finals, nor did I win anything at college despite working my fucking ass off twice as hard as half the lazy assholes who got in alongside me, but that just meant more experience at a time you really need to learn as much as you should.
You can talk about perseverance until the cows come home but not everybody's cut out to putting out that kind of effort. Everybody has a breaking point, some far lower than you'd think.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;51501502]Know what they'll say if you walk in and say "oh i did this in the military for 4 years", they'll say: Cool, got a cert for it? Do you have your clearances still? And no, you don't just get that cert for showing up, it's something you do in your off time.
So in reality it goes like this: Hey i'm a vet and I want a job with computers, i've been doing x job for 4 years in the military. Company: Oh cool, can we see your certifications and security clearances? (if you don't have the certs, congrats, they aren't hiring you)
Just doing the job in the military means fuck all. I'll say it again: in the civilian world, no one gives a fuck if your a vet or not.[/QUOTE]
For certain jobs you are required to get certain certifications, including mine.
The military also has the benefit to assist you in going to college to get more certifications and degrees.
Obviously you'll want to get a job as soon as you get out, which by then you will still have your clearances.
[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;51501519]"perseverance is key" did you not realize that the military isn't for everybody, and for argument's sake, if you're talking about special forces, that's a bunch of hardass shit over and above regular servicemen.
Being other than honorably discharged or discharged for bad conduct is going to look far worse on your record than a desk job.
Personally speaking, I'm no scholarship kid despite scoring in the high 90 percentile overall in the high school finals, nor did I win anything at college despite working my fucking ass off twice as hard as half the lazy assholes who got in alongside me, but that just meant more experience at a time you really need to learn as much as you should.
You can talk about perseverance until the cows come home but not everybody's cut out to putting out that kind of effort. Everybody has a breaking point, some far lower than you'd think.[/QUOTE]
If you really can't handle the military (lol) my points still stand on college. No I'm not talking about special forces either.
Good for you for working your ass off, but you should look into scholarships.
[editline]8th December 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;51501525]Great, so we can all just move to the Bay area, get a job with this specific company, and then attempt to work for minimum wage and going to college at the same time, and still not making enough for food, housing, and transportation because instead of working and getting money, you have to spend time going to campus.[/QUOTE]
Dude, you're the one who asked for one specific source lmao.
I'm sure theres companies in your area who do similar, you just have to look.
[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51501482]What do you mean by "You think they're going to handle you a nice, comfortable desk job without a degree or any sort of reference?" Take the work experience gained from your MOS to the outside world.[/quote]
You said previously:
[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51501346]Honestly the only physically demanding part is Basic Training, unless your MOS is infantry or something.[/QUOTE]
As others have pointed out, however, you can only apply to certain posts (MOS, whatever you want to call them) [B]if[/B] they are available. Not only that, there will be lots of people who will try to get that very same job.
In the military, you are NOT guaranteed to get to the position or area you want. If they suddenly need more people in a given area, and they consider that your skills would be put to better use there, they CAN (And often [I]will[/I]) change your job.
[quote]What do you think looks better on a resume? "Oh I learned about computers and did some practice in college" or "I had actual experience with computers in the military for 4 years"[/QUOTE]
Most employers don't care where have you worked before. Sure, it might look impressive on paper, but the question most employers are going to ask is "How well did you do your job during those four years?". They WILL call your former employers and coworkers to see how well you did your job, and if there are any other issues they might need to know before hiring you.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;51501539]Not really. Depends on when the investigation for your clearance was done. If it was a few months ago, yea you'll keep them. If it was a few years ago.. nah, you're fucked.
And yes, i'm aware of what certs you'll have to get. Those typically aren't good enough to get you anything but a basic job doing what ever you used to do (for significantly less cash). Yes, i'm also aware of your TA and GI bill use. You are aware that TA is constantly being slashed, and you have to seek active approval from your CoC to get it, right? You are aware that you have to get permission to use your GI bill while on active duty (and you lose a significant portion of it as you can't collect the housing allowance while on active)
You're literally spouting off recruiter shit man, shit that i'm already intimately aware of, and I'm telling you that there are more caveats to everything than you see (for now). I'm not saying those things don't exist. I'm not saying that you can't come out on top. I'm saying that there's a fuck ton more to the military than "show up, do job, go home".[/QUOTE]
I'm aware of the majority of that information, but thanks for the pieces I didn't know!
But it is better than sitting at home just waiting for that perfect job to come by though.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51500298]I'd enjoy the schadenfreude if it wasn't so surreal that people honestly think this is going to help
But those same people never enter these threads to do the shit posting they're known for[/QUOTE]
Your liberal superiority signaling is more annoying than anything else I've seen on this forum.
[QUOTE=T553412;51501556]You said previously:
As others have pointed out, however, you can only apply to certain posts (MOS, whatever you want to call them) [B]if[/B] they are available. Not only that, there will be lots of people who will try to get that very same job.
In the military, you are NOT guaranteed to get to the position or area you want. If they suddenly need more people in a given area, and they consider that your skills would be put to better use there, they CAN (And often [I]will[/I]) change your job.
Most employers don't care where have you worked before. Sure, it might look impressive on paper, but the question most employers are going to ask is "How well did you do your job during those four years?". They WILL call your former employers and coworkers to see how well you did your job, and if there are any other issues they might need to know before hiring you.[/QUOTE]
Contracts are legally binding though?
If you can't do your job you won't make it to being able to ask for a job interview, so that point is moot.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;51501570]True, but you can't treat the military as a real source of "upward mobility". Don't be surprised if you get out and find out you still have to go to college to get the rest of the certs/classes you need in order to work in a given field. And then.. you'll have to deal with.. civilians.. *shudder*. Speaking from experience (again) being 25 and going to college is just.. a frustrating experience.[/QUOTE]
It definitely gives you an edge on people that simply just went to college, but I haven't started yet so we will have to wait and see I guess.
[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51501532]If you really can't handle the military (lol) my points still stand on college. No I'm not talking about special forces either.
Good for you for working your ass off, but you should look into scholarships.
[editline]8th December 2016[/editline]
Dude, you're the one who asked for one specific source lmao.
I'm sure theres companies in your area who do similar, you just have to look.[/QUOTE]
dude, its very easy to fall into a trap at college as well. While you're not necessarily physically exhausting yourself, college is fucking hard. If you don't have the discipline and skills to survive the military you probably don't have the discipline to survive in college either because you need to have a plan and the stakes are so high anymore because of costs. The last 4 years of my life has been a constant struggle to keep pushing forward, even as things fall apart around me and there were plenty of times when I thought i couldn't make it through and partly by luck, partly by sheer determination, partly because i'm fortunate, i managed to pull through and now i'm in a pretty good job on track to jump into some really high paying fields but its not a cake walk.
also i'm going to tell you right now, most people loose their scholarships and most of their financial aid after 2-3 years of college and thats a scary thing to only be able to afford school by the grace of something like that. Its why i sincerely hope that we come together as a country and re-evaluate the way we fund our higher education system so that less fortunate people don't have to risk so much for something that can easily destroy them if it fails.
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;51501572]Your liberal superiority signaling is more annoying than anything else I've seen on this forum.[/QUOTE]
I thought one of the reasons Trumpsters cited when voting for him was saying things like it is? What's so wrong with somebody else saying things as they actually are then?
Nothing's going to change the fact that you guys believed in the lies of a con man who's going to do the exact opposite of what he promised he would, and fucked everybody else over in the bargain, I'm all for trying to make people understand they shouldn't fall for cheap demagoguery no matter how desperate they are, considering Trump made himself look like an inner tube to which a drowning person (those who voted for him) could grab as a means of reaching safety. Only thing is, this inner tube is gonna get punctured long before any shore ends up in site, and people are just gonna say again that we told you so.
I'm totally against the sort of bullshit populism perpetuated by Trump purely because he says what people want to hear instead of actually making hard decisions to better the lives of others, considering that his cronies in the secretary positions are almost universally shitty rich people like he is with ties to big oil, religion, and pseudoscientific bullshit.
[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51501587]It definitely gives you an edge on people that simply just went to college, but I haven't started yet so we will have to wait and see I guess.[/QUOTE]
How exactly does being in the military "gives you an edge on people that simply just went to college"?
Legit question
[QUOTE=Sableye;51501594]dude, its very easy to fall into a trap at college as well. While you're not necessarily physically exhausting yourself, college is fucking hard. If you don't have the discipline and skills to survive the military you probably don't have the discipline to survive in college either because you need to have a plan and the stakes are so high anymore because of costs. The last 4 years of my life has been a constant struggle to keep pushing forward, even as things fall apart around me and there were plenty of times when I thought i couldn't make it through and partly by luck, partly by sheer determination, partly because i'm fortunate, i managed to pull through and now i'm in a pretty good job on track to jump into some really high paying fields but its not a cake walk.
also i'm going to tell you right now, most people loose their scholarships and most of their financial aid after 2-3 years of college and thats a scary thing to only be able to afford school by the grace of something like that. Its why i sincerely hope that we come together as a country and re-evaluate the way we fund our higher education system so that less fortunate people don't have to risk so much for something that can easily destroy them if it fails.[/QUOTE]
Something should be done about the education of this country no doubt, but it's still very possible to get by.
[QUOTE=T553412;51501596]How exactly does being in the military "gives you an edge on people that simply just went to college"?
Legit question[/QUOTE]
as far as experience goes, they might have training and technical skills most normal people don't have as well as a very strong work ethic usually.
as far as job seeking goes, vets qualify for quite a few programs to help them find a job as vet unemployment is frighteningly high. Pretty much every application process will ask if you're a veteran or not because they get tax incentives plus the vet is usually a great worker.
[editline]8th December 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51501609]Something should be done about the education of this country no doubt, but it's still very possible to get by.[/QUOTE]
oh ya, i work in a laboratory setting and the guy to my left has a masters in phyical chemistry, while the guy to my right has just a highschool diploma, they both took very different tracks to get where they are now, neither one is inherantly better than the other as they both have their own takes on issues in the lab.
connections go a long way.
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;51501572]Your liberal superiority signaling is more annoying than anything else I've seen on this forum.[/QUOTE]
It's like you have to make everything identity politics when someone discusses an issue. If it bothers you so much, block them, no one is forcing you to see their messages.
That being said, this isn't much of a surprise. We've been on a roller coaster with most of the picks they've been making.
[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51501482]Obviously you're going to have to do PT, the military doesn't want fatasses lol. It's really not all that physically demanding though, your body adapts.
Obviously you should join the military with your country in mind is what I'm saying.
Joining the military is a nice way out of poverty imo.
No doubt it's mental, but so is practically every other job in the world, but perseverance is key.
What do you mean by "You think they're going to handle you a nice, comfortable desk job without a degree or any sort of reference?" Take the work experience gained from your MOS to the outside world.
What do you think looks better on a resume? "Oh I learned about computers and did some practice in college" or "I had actual experience with computers in the military for 4 years"[/QUOTE]
Considering the status of many US military veterans it currently is one of the best ways to get INTO poverty
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;51501629]The tax incentives thing only applies if the company has any form of federal contract. Say you went to work for your local mechanic, he's probably not getting a tax break for hiring you just because you're a vet.[/QUOTE]
no but there's also state and local programs too and some just have veteran programs on their own, you'd be entirely surprised how many companies ask you if you're a veteran also a veteran is probably going to be looking at more than just the local mechanic.
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;51501572]Your liberal superiority signaling is more annoying than anything else I've seen on this forum.[/QUOTE]
Your ad hominem is dismissing the liberals who are willing to help us as well as having them dismiss us conservatives who are willing to work together with them.
Stop throwing this fuel into the fire, because I'm burning along with it.
Anyone who thinks that to get out of poverty you need to pledge 4-8 years of your life to the military is a fucking nutter. Not only is that not a guarantee, but it's a terrible concept. Especially for those who'd end up infantry.
Also I feel that, if you work 40 hours a week, you should be GUARANTEED at LEAST living wage. I don't care if you flip burgers or are a master surgeon that performs life saving operations on impoverished orphans with heart problems. You deserve, at the very least, to make enough money to NOT BE FUCKING STARVING if you're wasting 40+ hours of your life making some big wig rich. End of fucking story.
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;51501572]Your liberal superiority signaling is more annoying than anything else I've seen on this forum.[/QUOTE]
Oh so you did come in here but only to flame and degrade me
Cool, so we can't have a discussion?
[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51501609]Something should be done about the education of this country no doubt, but it's still very possible to get by.[/QUOTE]
It's clearly not for the vast majority of people, as evidenced by the vast majority of people not getting by very well.
[QUOTE=Chonch;51500738]Raking lawns? I'm not twelve, man. I don't think the minimum wage should be abolished, not at all. I just want to be able to work around it if I'm not pulling regular part-time hours. Lets say I want to go mop the floor at Burger King on the weekend or do some night-stocking at the local grocers in the early AM for like ~$5 an hour. That could be maybe a hundred or so extra bucks at the end of the month. Imagine what could be done with a little bit of compound interest! I just want to squeeze as much money as possible out of my time while I'm still a young man. If that means I have to take less than $9.50 with benefits I'll happily do it.
I guess I'm not up to spec on whether it's legal or not to pay people under minimum wage. I get that waitresses and the like do that with tips, but I understand their employer still has to make up the difference if they don't break $7.25. Can you help me understand this better?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Chonch;51500883]How dare you. I can see you're passionate about this.
Seriously, if I want to work a little shitty job on top of my average salary, what's the problem? And for others, would you rather be cooped up by yourself NEETing your days away off an unemployment check (where I am that's like $3/hr), or would you take a tiny bit more and have something to do with your day? Arbeit macht frei, man. [/QUOTE]
Because if you make a special agreement with your employer to accept less than minimum wage, then your employer is going to expect [I]everyone else[/I] to make a "special agreement" [I]as well[/I].
I mean, you even mention that employers are willing to make waiters work for less than minimum wage by using tips as a technicality, but you don't think they'd be willing to turn away any new hires that don't make "special agreements"?
[QUOTE=Chonch;51500599]I don't care about the other guy in this case. I want to work a few hours on the weekends doing a shitty job for extra money, but you can't legally pay anyone less than minimum wage. I think if we allowed people to work for less if they wanted to, unemployment would drastically decrease. People will do anything for a job.[/QUOTE]
Sure, unemployment would decrease, but so would homelessness. Because as people in this thread have been saying, and as republicans and posters like Derek have been trying to justify, [I]minimum wage is not a living wage.[/I] Even though it's supposed to be.
Higher employment rates are only good if people are able to live off of it. Otherwise it's this
hold on
hold on one fucking second
how did I not notice this until now
[QUOTE=Chonch;51500883][B]Arbeit macht frei, man.[/B] [/QUOTE]
are you seriously quoting the fucking entranceway to [B]AUSCHWITZ[/B] as "the American dream"?
what the fuck
[QUOTE=Chonch;51501072]I'm not completely insane. Really though, my personal dream is closer to fifty hours.
Go on?[/QUOTE]
You know there are studies showing that if you work for more than 40 hours, you [I]lose[/I] efficiency, right? And I don't mean "efficiency per hour", I mean "overall efficiency". Someone who works for 40 hours actually gets more done than someone who works for 50 hours.
[QUOTE=Monkah;51500546]I personally think the best solution is to simply expand the job market as much as possible. As unlikely and impossible as it might seem, I think that if we stop focusing on the minimum wage and instead focus on opening jobs, the value of the worker might eventually rise to the point that the supply of workers is lower than the corporate demand-- or at least [I]somewhat[/I], so that the value of the working man is higher than it currently is today.
I believe that the higher we raise the minimum wage, the weaker the dollar will be, as I explained in my post up above. Though, if you disagree with that, I'd love to hear why.
However, assuming we're in agreement on that, it can only be assumed that the minimum 'living wage' would increase as well, no? If the value of the dollar decreases, prices increase. If prices increase, the cost to feed, clothe, and shelter oneself increases with it.
I don't believe that raising the minimum wage will lead to any long-term positive effects.[/QUOTE]
People far smarter than you or I, people who have nobel prizes in economics, disagree. We're not going to get more inflation because minimum wage. I don't even have to provide a source for this, [url=https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1544637&p=51500525&viewfull=1#post51500525]someone else already found one and posted it.[/url]
Everyone should be able to make ends meet. Having to work two, three jobs to do so simply because minimum wage is so low is unacceptable. Minimum wage and living wage should be quite close to one another, not on opposite ends of the labor market. At absolute minimum the federal min wage should be pegged to inflation, should be raised up such that its buying power is equal to where it was in the 1960s.
[QUOTE=Monkah;51500546]
I believe that the higher we raise the minimum wage, the weaker the dollar will be, as I explained in my post up above. Though, if you disagree with that, I'd love to hear why.
[/QUOTE]
Cause the science says you're wrong
imo this should all be announced before an election
yo i know my mumsy and daddy-kins are paying for my college but let me tell you all about how a single essay and a teensy student loan is your instant ticket to being a millionaire (doctors hate him!)
oh but you can always join the military and get your brains flash cooked on a sand dune, because as we all know veterans are famous for their ability to get jobs and not commit suicide in poverty
sure hope nobody asks me to back up my statements with any facts, moving outside the realm of 100% opinion based banter means i'm open to easy fact based dissection of my arguments, near instantly proving me wrong!
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