[QUOTE=mikeyt493;46492211]the creator being a woman makes literally no difference lol. Ive not played Bayonetta so I cant comment on the potential sexism or anything, I've heard it's an interesting and very polarising situation and read a little bit on both sides and there's valid points both ways. But the fact that Bayonetta was designed by a woman doesn't matter, women can still cater to the toxic male gaze and objectify women too.[/QUOTE]
And how does his shirt objectify women exactly?
[QUOTE=mikeyt493;46492211]the creator being a woman makes literally no difference lol. Ive not played Bayonetta so I cant comment on the potential sexism or anything, I've heard it's an interesting and very polarising situation and read a little bit on both sides and there's valid points both ways. But the fact that Bayonetta was designed by a woman doesn't matter, women can still cater to the toxic male gaze and objectify women too.[/QUOTE]
How is Bayonetta objectifying women when she is the subject of the game she is in?
this makes me real ticked off tbh
I was talking about Bayonetta (and i dont have an opinion on the game because I've not played it, as I said) but whatever the shirt kind of does objectify since it's literally a fucking collage of scantily clad women in seductive poses lmao it is clearly made for sex appeal and nothing more.
[editline]15th November 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Raidyr;46492280]How is Bayonetta objectifying women when she is the subject of the game she is in?[/QUOTE]
i literally said I dont know about whether or not Bayonetta is sexist or objectifying lol but being the protag of a story doesn't make them free from objectification or stereotypes or whatever, that goes for any story not just Bayonetta or video games, I have no idea how you decided that was the case lmao.
[QUOTE=mikeyt493;46492299]I was talking about Bayonetta (and i dont have an opinion on the game because I've not played it, as I said) but whatever the shirt kind of does objectify since it's literally a fucking collage of scantily clad women in seductive poses lmao it is clearly made for sex appeal and nothing more.[/QUOTE]
So... he's objectifying women... because he's attracted to women... ?
So your telling me that women are objectifying women, by putting women on a t-shirt? Is the criteria of "objecting women" any woman on anything not fully clothed and in a very dignified pose?
like yeah the shirt was unprofessional, and you can point that out, but a fucking #shirtgate?
if anybody here defends the idea of a '#shirtgate' can we permaban them? im aware of how divisive such a thing (permabanning people for defending the idea of a #shirtgate) would be, but i think it is for the common good
like taking the guy, who has just contributed to doing a massive thing for our knowledge of stuff outside of the earth and has basically done more for humanity than i or anybody on this forum will ever be able to achieve, aside and saying 'man i think your shirt is kinda off pal, kinda weird to have that on during an interview but we will talk about it after'
instead of trying to say the guy is the reason fifty thousand emaciated orphan girls will never be able to be scientists
[QUOTE=mikeyt493;46492087]*women complain about misogyny*
*men make misogynistic comments in an attempt to pretend misogyny is not a thing*
[editline]15th November 2014[/editline]
I mean I dont think the shirt is straight up misogynistic, it's a bit objectifying and I don't think it's particularly acceptable, and from a fashion standpoint it's fucking terrible and gaudy, as well as innappropriate for the situation, but comments like that just prove the point lmao.
[editline]15th November 2014[/editline]
also the "it's just a shirt" argument is 100% a stupid fallacy[/QUOTE]
When the complaints about misogyny make an issue out of nothing, equate any and all sexuality with toxicity and objectification, and distract from a great accomplishment by a diverse scientific team with inane bullshit, I think people are fair in insulting and mocking them.
Please explain how it's a fallacy to say it's just a shirt, because from my perspective while it is indeed gaudy and terrible, I don't see how a shirt could contribute to or even be related to any kind of actual sexism.
[QUOTE=flamehead5;46492313]So... he's objectifying women... because he's attracted to women... ?[/QUOTE]
no its because this shirt reduces them to sex objects (sensationalist phrasing but whatever), it's hardly a big offender of it but I'm just speaking plainly. I dont really think the shirt is a particularly big deal although it is trashy and looks like shit, I don't think the extent of the backlash is really fair but it's not without some justification. It's worth him being told off about. Idk anything about this dude so I have nothing to say about him, just commenting on the shirt.
i usually do not do quotes because they are generally pretty vapid ways of contributing to a discussion, but this is literally what this is
[I]"When a wise man points at the moon the imbecile examines the finger"[/I]
[QUOTE=mikeyt493;46492342]no its because this shirt reduces them to sex objects (sensationalist phrasing but whatever), it's hardly a big offender of it but I'm just speaking plainly. I dont really think the shirt is a particularly big deal although it is trashy and looks like shit, I don't think the extent of the backlash is really fair but it's not without some justification. It's worth him being told off about. Idk anything about this dude so I have nothing to say about him, just commenting on the shirt.[/QUOTE]
Here's the part of my post you missed
"So your telling me that women are objectifying women, by putting women on a t-shirt? Is the criteria of "objecting women" any woman on anything not fully clothed and in a very dignified pose?"
THE HORROR
I don't get this whole objectification thing when it comes to models. Are they not objectifying THEMSELVES? Why are they not allowed to do what they want with their own bodies?
It makes me sad that we live in an age where people collectively shit their diapers over something as trivial and petty as a fucking t-shirt design.
The "offended" people were bullies using feminism as an excuse to express their misandry.
That is all.
It's a pretty trashy shirt, but all that really deserves "dude, uh, what's with your shirt". Or odd glares.
It's not going to singlehandedly drive women out of astronomical work, but it certainly could make people uncomfortable.
Imagine if instead of skimpy leather-clad women, it was a shirt covered in skimpy, leather clad men showing off their bulges. Not the worst thing ever, obviously, but you wouldn't really want to stay around a person wearing such a shirt for too long.
[QUOTE=RautaPalli;46492442]I don't get this whole objectification thing when it comes to models. Are they not objectifying THEMSELVES? Why are they not allowed to do what they want with their own bodies?[/QUOTE]
It's indisputable that someone being reduced to just an object used for sexual pleasure (or an object incapable of their own agency in general) is a bad thing. Of course some people misunderstand this and think any expression of sexuality, even a picture that doesn't give a full life story of the model, is reducing them to just a sex object for men to look at.
Just like being presented as a scientist doesn't reduce him to only a scientist with no other aspects to him, a woman expressing sexuality does not reduce them to just a sexual object. Unfortunately this isn't often explained and you end up with a lot of people who do equate sexuality with sexism for sensationalist headlines like this one.
[QUOTE=Last or First;46492524]
Imagine if instead of skimpy leather-clad women, it was a shirt covered in skimpy, leather clad men showing off their bulges. Not the worst thing ever, obviously, but you wouldn't really want to stay around a person wearing such a shirt for too long.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't judge anyone just by what they are wearing, especially if it's just a fucking shirt. I'm guilty to doing that multiple times in the past but usually when I actually get to know those people they've turned out to be cool.
[QUOTE=mikeyt493;46492342]no its because this shirt reduces them to sex objects[/QUOTE]
why
[QUOTE=Gwoodman;46492644]why[/QUOTE]
because sex is bad and expressing it is inappropriate at all times and is obviously a deeply rooted hatred for the sex that is portrayed or something
If a shirt drives you out of an industry you're not ready for the pressures of any real job TBH
The best part is that it was a woman who designed and created this shirt... go figure.
What a ridiculous situation though, words fail me. I am constantly stunned at this sort of nonsense... When I was growing up this shit was never a concern, and no one was worse off for it. I guess we can probably thank global media proliferation and the internet / ease of contact / anonymity for the recent surge in stupidity regarding all of this. Ugh
I miss the simpler days
If a shirt showing some women sexually is saying that women are sex objects, because the only particular trait they have is their sexual features, then surely a shirt showing a generic woman with no particular traits would be just as much objectifying them, correct? It would just be doing it sexlessly. Are we not allowed to wear shirts depicting any female characters without giving them deep backstories on the back to ensure they aren't objects? Because if not, then these people seem to be just trying to shame people because of their sexuality, which is fucking vile.
[QUOTE=mikeyt493;46492299]I was talking about Bayonetta (and i dont have an opinion on the game because I've not played it, as I said) but whatever the shirt kind of does objectify since it's literally a fucking collage of scantily clad women in seductive poses lmao it is clearly made for sex appeal and nothing more.[/QUOTE]
yes because sex appeal = objectification BEEP BOOP
I mean I probably wouldn't wear that shirt in a professional setting but no need to crucify him over it.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;46490103]There's judging someone based on appearance, and then there's judging someone based on what they made an active choice to wear.
It doesn't even matter if the shirt is actually sexist or not, it's fucking embarrassing and I have to question why someone so clearly stupid is operating spacecraft. I'd be saying the same thing if he was wearing a shirt for some stupid grindcore band or whatever - if you're going to be on international television you don't wear something that you know is going to alienate people.[/QUOTE]
Every time I see you post, you get showered with dumbs. Why do you not see this as a sign that you should reflect about yourself?
[QUOTE=Sobek-;46492708]The best part is that it was a woman who designed and created this shirt... go figure.
What a ridiculous situation though, words fail me. I am constantly stunned at this sort of nonsense... When I was growing up this shit was never a concern, and no one was worse off for it. I guess we can probably thank global media proliferation and the internet / ease of contact / anonymity for the recent surge in stupidity regarding all of this. Ugh
I miss the simpler days[/QUOTE]
Your comment and others like it miss the point of the complaints about the shirt. Of course this never was a concern and 'no one' was worse off for it. Back then certain groups, like women and minorities, were locked out and no one cared.
The difference is today, in today's world, we want people who were previously locked out to join in. What does it say to girls and women who see this guy in a high profile position in a historic event wearing a shirt like that? Does it say "Hey, get your education in science and get in on this kind of thing, we need you!"? No, it says "This is a boy's club, no girls need apply".
That shirt may be a hilarious thing to wear, at the right time and place and among the right people. I can't imagine how he thought it was appropriate for this. So I guess if a person believes anyone should be able to display whatever images he wants at work, yeah you could ask what the big deal is. I myself don't understand what's so hard about the concept of propriety that people can't grasp it.
I've been trying to formulate a reply to this for a while, and all I can say is that this is pathetic.
How does this man's shirt affect any of these rampant social justice warriors on twitter? It doesn't. It is not going to encourage anyone to rape, assault, abuse, stare at, become desensitized to, or harm any women.
It's a fucking shirt.
[QUOTE=FetusFondler;46492792]Every time I see you post, you get showered with dumbs. Why do you not see this as a sign that you should reflect about yourself?[/QUOTE]
He has somewhat of a point, while I wouldn't say he shouldn't be operating spacecraft solely based on the shirt I will say he made a pretty dumb choice to wear that shirt on international television. It doesn't look a bit professional, seems a little juvenile, and is sure to cause a commotion (which it has.). I think anyone who spends a least bit of time working with/around important people or are in a highly visible professional setting would agree.
I feel like the only one that likes the design of the shirt. like, I think it honestly looks awesome. Would I wear it, no.
[QUOTE=Last or First;46492524]It's a pretty trashy shirt, but all that really deserves "dude, uh, what's with your shirt". Or odd glares.
It's not going to singlehandedly drive women out of astronomical work, but it certainly could make people uncomfortable.
Imagine if instead of skimpy leather-clad women, it was a shirt covered in skimpy, leather clad men showing off their bulges. Not the worst thing ever, obviously, but you wouldn't really want to stay around a person wearing such a shirt for too long.[/QUOTE]
I would wear that shirt if the men in bulging leather thongs were from JoJo.
Not everyone is horrified by the very concept of sexuality, and I'm guessing that if this guy has been working with these people for a decade they have a general understanding about what people are okay with. If people from outside the team want to come in and be offended that's on them.
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