[QUOTE=Deaglez7;46497367]Were not allowed to wear shirts anymore[/QUOTE]
people would find something else to bitch about, it would never end.
[QUOTE=SpaceGhost;46497515]people would find something else to bitch about, it would never end.[/QUOTE]
It really never ends
[QUOTE=kaukassus;46488960]Some people are offended by anything. Just looking in their general direction would probably offend them too.[/QUOTE]
Reminds me of brain-dead thug wanna-be's at the hood who think they're cool to threaten shanking you if you look "funny" at them.
[QUOTE=Gwoodman;46489079]waiting for that one guy to say the shirt is sexist and cause a 10 page shirtstorm
there's always that one guy, come on out[/QUOTE]
there you go
[QUOTE=ZeFruitNazi;46494845]
i guess the only good thing to come out of this thread is knowing who to never talk to on facepunch[/QUOTE]
yeah, it's you.
[QUOTE=V12US;46495980]I don't think there's a hospital on this planet capable of treating a burn that severe.[/QUOTE]
He was totally asking for that treatment by wearing that shirt, in fact he was just positively [I]begging[/I] for it.
No really the situation is different I swear.
Its a shirt. Some people just need to calm the fuck down.
[editline]15th November 2014[/editline]
I thought it was an awesome shirt really.
[QUOTE=Deaglez7;46497544]It really never ends[/QUOTE]
It really reminds me of the analogy floating around that compares these kinds of cliques to cults.
Specifically, the kind of people that join these cliques; odds are we're dealing with men and women who are successful enough that they can support themselves, but utterly unhappy with the state of their life and even more frustrated because deep down they know the only thing holding them back from accomplishing something is themselves (because getting from Point A to Point B requires a damn lot of work.)*
So what do they do? If they can't complain about legitimate discrimination, they start making shit up or pouncing on the slightest thing - I mean fuck, bitching about this guy's shirt is trivial even if he wasn't an accomplished scientist, but SJW and tumblr [I]have[/I] to find a reason to be offended, because if they aren't offended and feel oppressed by every tiny fucking thing... Than why are they so miserable?
I know it seems like I'm making a lot of assumptions about the people behind the screens, but I've met enough hardcore "muh master race" or "men are the new oppressed gender" types who do the exact same fucking thing to notice that all of them are in some way, shape or form utterly unhappy with their lives and hey, if it works for that side of the argument, why not the other?
*An easy example of this are the landwhales that make so much noise over "thin privilege" and "muh beautiful realistic figure." They can fix most of their problems by watching their diet and exercise, but that's not only [I]effort[/I], but admitting the only person who's at fault for their life is themselves.
[QUOTE=just-a-boy;46495966]Here's something interesting I stumbled upon. It's not exactly defusing the mess, but it's an interesting response nonetheless.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/AGHI3j5.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]
I think there's a fundamental difference between "she deserved to get raped/beaten/whatever because of what she was wearing" and "they deserved to be told that what they're wearing is dumb because of what they were wearing".
Granted, I think people went too far, but again, he probably should have just taken off that shirt for the interview. He's even wearing a second shirt underneath it, it wouldn't be too hard. Or he could just make a quip about "Oh, excuse the shirt, it's my lucky shirt and a gift from a friend."
And the part about how a woman made it doesn't mean much. Sure, it means the intent is a probably a bit better, but just because it's a woman doing something doesn't mean that it can't make other women uncomfortable. Or anyone uncomfortable, but that's not my point. It's fallacious to say "Well, a woman did X, so that means other women must all be fine with X."
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;46493082]I'm guessing it's a lucky shirt sorta deal. When you're trying to hit a point the size of a needle by flinging a tin can through a ten year long loop de loop in deep space, you need all the luck you can get.
Honestly though, at some point people coming in need to adapt to the team and not the other way round. If you don't like that John Carmack rides through the halls on a segway while playing a pan flute, maybe you shouldn't join his company.
Better that a team acts obnoxiously in a way they're comfortable with than act prim and proper in a way that exasperates them.[/QUOTE]
If John Carmack were to drive through the halls while people are working and loudly play the pan flute, it wouldn't really be productive for the company. He would be interrupting at least a few people, and depending on how much he does it, would be wasting time acting like a child. Sure, it's your company, but don't complain if your behavior drives people off or draws complaints.
I think it should be both: people need to adapt to the team, and the team needs to be welcoming for new people. If your wacky behavior is going to make people uncomfortable, you should at least tone it down while people are just getting started or when you're presenting yourself to the public. Don't introduce yourself like "Hi, I'm Ted! As you can see, I like wearing hats with fake boobs on them." Give them a while to get acclimated before you bring out the boob hats.
[QUOTE=aaro1450;46498325]Its a shirt. Some people just need to calm the fuck down.
[editline]15th November 2014[/editline]
I thought it was an awesome shirt really.[/QUOTE]
Right? Terribly ugly, but awesome at the same time.
I have to give the guy credit because I would never wear anything like that. Not because of the scantily clad women on it, but because of how tacky it is.
People need to shut the fuck up and sit down already, sheesh.
/sitsdown
[QUOTE=Last or First;46498719]And the part about how a woman made it doesn't mean much. Sure, it means the intent is a probably a bit better, but just because it's a woman doing something doesn't mean that it can't make other women uncomfortable. Or anyone uncomfortable, but that's not my point. It's fallacious to say "Well, a woman did X, so that means other women must all be fine with X."[/QUOTE]
It's equally fallacious to say "A woman is offended by X, therefore all women are offended by X."
People like the ones who made a huge stink about this need to realize that not everyone considers the shit they find offensive, offensive. And that goes within the boundaries of race, gender, sexuality, and so on. One woman may consider something sexist, another woman may be perfectly fine with that same thing. Instead of raising a big stink about it, why can't people just agree to disagree and fucking move on with their lives?
[QUOTE=Xenomoose;46499449]It's equally fallacious to say "A woman is offended by X, therefore all women are offended by X."
People like the ones who made a huge stink about this need to realize that not everyone considers the shit they find offensive, offensive. And that goes within the boundaries of race, gender, sexuality, and so on. One woman may consider something sexist, another woman may be perfectly fine with that same thing. Instead of raising a big stink about it, why can't people just agree to disagree and fucking move on with their lives?[/QUOTE]
Because to those people, what they deem is offensive or sexist is what's truly offensive or sexist and the only reason others don't agree is because they don't know any better and need to be educated so they can be equally offended and we can stop it.
If I've learned anything from this thread is that its impossible to be both excited about a major achievement in space science, while also being moderately confused about one of the scientists decision to wear a weird shirt on TV.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;46499649]If I've learned anything from this thread is that its impossible to be both excited about a major achievement in space science, while also being moderately confused about one of the scientists decision to wear a weird shirt on TV.[/QUOTE]
Mainly because the t-shirt DOESN'T MATTER. He's a scientist, not a male model.
[QUOTE=Xenomoose;46499449]It's equally fallacious to say "A woman is offended by X, therefore all women are offended by X."
People like the ones who made a huge stink about this need to realize that not everyone considers the shit they find offensive, offensive. And that goes within the boundaries of race, gender, sexuality, and so on. One woman may consider something sexist, another woman may be perfectly fine with that same thing. Instead of raising a big stink about it, why can't people just agree to disagree and fucking move on with their lives?[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying it's offensive to all women.
Just that it can make some people uncomfortable.
I can turn what you said around, too. Just because you don't think something is offensive doesn't mean it can't offend other people. "I don't care about it, so we should all just leave it alone" isn't really the best idea.
So you need to look at [I]why[/I] people are offended and whether or not fixing that offense is reasonable.
"I'm offended that those two guys are dating each other and not women!" Sure, you would feel uncomfortable, but stopping them would come at the cost of their love, and the love of countless other people who are gay.
"Your shirt makes me uncomfortable and wouldn't make me feel welcome working with you, can you not wear that to work?" Again, you're uncomfortable, but stopping that would only come at the cost of one guy not wearing a certain shirt to work.
As for people moving on: [url=https://twitter.com/roseveleth/status/533251143829565440]guess what, they are.[/url]
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;46499649]If I've learned anything from this thread is that its impossible to be both excited about a major achievement in space science, while also being moderately confused about one of the scientists decision to wear a weird shirt on TV.[/QUOTE]
"moderately confused"
yeah, that's what happened
I think OP's avatar perfectly sums up my reaction to the whole situation, with this caption to boot..
- Do i really exist in a world were stuff like this starts something, well.. crap..
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;46499649]If I've learned anything from this thread is that its impossible to be both excited about a major achievement in space science, while also being moderately confused about one of the scientists decision to wear a weird shirt on TV.[/QUOTE]
[quote] I don't care if you landed a spacecraft on a comet, your shirt is sexist and ostracizing
That's one small step for man, three steps back for humankind [/quote]
Moderately confused.
[b]Edit:[/b]
To be entirely honest, I think that the shirt is pretty tacky and dumb as well. More like something that should be worn when you're hanging out with friends as an in-joke than on a momentous occasion. But at the same time I just hate how the general response to this kind of thing is to drag the person responsible through the mud and accuse them of being sexist, one of the last things anyone reasonable wants to be right up there with being racist, for what is in the grand scheme of things a relatively minor indiscretion.
Study after study has proven that shaming doesn't work. It doesn't work to make people improve their diet, it doesn't work to make people improve their recycling habits, and it follows that it doesn't work to make people more socially conscientious. This trend of making people out to be misogynist troglodytes because they screwed up just makes people defensive, confused, and angry, and I feel that more level-headed social criticism might make significantly more progress.
[QUOTE=Last or First;46499816]I'm not saying it's offensive to all women.
Just that it can make some people uncomfortable.
I can turn what you said around, too. Just because you don't think something is offensive doesn't mean it can't offend other people. "I don't care about it, so we should all just leave it alone" isn't really the best idea.
So you need to look at [I]why[/I] people are offended and whether or not fixing that offense is reasonable.
"I'm offended that those two guys are dating each other and not women!" Sure, you would feel uncomfortable, but stopping them would come at the cost of their love, and the love of countless other people who are gay.
"Your shirt makes me uncomfortable and wouldn't make me feel welcome working with you, can you not wear that to work?" Again, you're uncomfortable, but stopping that would only come at the cost of one guy not wearing a certain shirt to work.
As for people moving on: [url=https://twitter.com/roseveleth/status/533251143829565440]guess what, they are.[/url][/QUOTE]
It isn't "I don't care about it, so leave it alone". It's "not everyone cares about it as much as you do, stop acting like they do, and stop acting like your own personal opinion is the only one that matters". Yes, stopping someones discomfort at the expense of a shirt may seem like a good trade, but it's a fucking shirt. What kind of person are you when a shirt with a few scantly clad women is enough to make you uncomfortable? What kind of person are you if you would seriously consider not going into the STEM fields because of one guy's shirt?
what makes this man different from anyone else that is harassed on the internet?
when anyone else gets called names twitter, nobody gives a fuck, they tell that person to get over it and learn that the internet is a harsh place.
not to discredit his achievement, which is massive mind you, i just don't see what makes this different from any other form of unjustified internet harassment, and why he deserves to be treated differently from anyone else under the same circumstances.
the difference that [I]seems[/I] to exist is that the people who did the bullying are associated with feminism.
so naturally you have feminists defending the harassers and people who dislike feminism defending the person who was harassed; it's almost the opposite of what happens when someone like sarkeesian is harassed under the same circumstances.
the politics of situations like these have an astounding ability to drag people kicking and screaming into perceived sides on an issue; something i've experienced firsthand.
[QUOTE=joes33431;46500152]what makes this man different from anyone else that is harassed on the internet?
when anyone else gets called names twitter, nobody gives a fuck, they tell that person to get over it and learn that the internet is a harsh place.
not to discredit his achievement, which is massive mind you, i just don't see what makes this different from any other form of unjustified internet harassment, and why he deserves to be treated differently from anyone else under the same circumstances.
the difference that [I]seems[/I] to exist is that the people who did the bullying are associated with feminism.
so naturally you have feminists defending the harassers and people who dislike feminism defending the person who was harassed; it's almost the opposite of what happens when someone like sarkeesian is harassed under the same circumstances.
the politics of situations like these have an astounding ability to drag people kicking and screaming into perceived sides on an issue; something i've experienced firsthand.[/QUOTE]
the difference is that usually the people who get harassed on twitter attacked someone else first, or they deserve it for being obnoxious.
in this case, this guy pretty much did nothing wrong. he just wore a shirt that a friend gave to him, and people started flinging shit at him. they just happened to be feminists due to the nature of his shirt's content, and the guy also broke down despite being completely innocent which garners more sympathy.
[QUOTE=Xenomoose;46499989]It isn't "I don't care about it, so leave it alone". It's "not everyone cares about it as much as you do, stop acting like they do, and stop acting like your own personal opinion is the only one that matters". Yes, stopping someones discomfort at the expense of a shirt may seem like a good trade, but it's a fucking shirt. What kind of person are you when a shirt with a few scantly clad women is enough to make you uncomfortable? What kind of person are you if you would seriously consider not going into the STEM fields because of one guy's shirt?[/QUOTE]
I mentioned this on the last page, but it really depends on how often he wears it and how, if at all, he affects the workplace environment. If he just wears it every so often for fun/luck, then it's mostly fine and it's just an unlucky lapse of common sense that he wore it while being interviewed. On the other hand, if he has a bunch of shirts like that, puts up posters of swimsuit models, brings in Playboy and Maxim, and makes a bunch of Youtube-comment level jokes about women, then it could make some women around him feel like he doesn't really respect them and just views them as sex objects. (Provided that he does all of that at work, but that's a given.) (There's obviously a whole range of possibilities in between, but that's not the point.)
Of course, it's most likely the former, where it's just one of many odd shirts and he was just too excited about landing on a comet to think about taking it off before appearing for a public interview.
Plus, being uncomfortable isn't an all or nothing "please checkmark the box if you're uncomfortable", it's a range. A "straw that broke the camel's back" sort of deal, where it's not one big problem but a variety of smaller problems that add up.
And again, if the shirt was of a bunch of men in leather chaps and thongs and whatever else, you would certainly see complaints.
[QUOTE=goldenbuttocks;46500246]the difference is that usually the people who get harassed on twitter attacked someone else first, or they deserve it for being obnoxious.
in this case, this guy pretty much did nothing wrong. he just wore a shirt that a friend gave to him, and people started flinging shit at him. they just happened to be feminists due to the nature of his shirt's content, and the guy also broke down despite being completely innocent which garners more sympathy.[/QUOTE]
well no, people get attacked on the internet all the time for simply being there. post a youtube video of any quality and you're bound to have someone call you a name in the comments.
this guy definitely didn't deserve the shit he's been getting, but you can't deny that the political element of this story is a primary reason that it's popular and has so many people either defending him or the people harassing him.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;46490103]There's judging someone based on appearance, and then there's judging someone based on what they made an active choice to wear.
It doesn't even matter if the shirt is actually sexist or not, it's fucking embarrassing and I have to question why someone so clearly stupid is operating spacecraft. I'd be saying the same thing if he was wearing a shirt for some stupid grindcore band or whatever - if you're going to be on international television you don't wear something that you know is going to alienate people.[/QUOTE]
Zeke, shut the fuck up.
[QUOTE=Last or First;46500278]I mentioned this on the last page, but it really depends on how often he wears it and how, if at all, he affects the workplace environment. If he just wears it every so often for fun/luck, then it's mostly fine and it's just an unlucky lapse of common sense that he wore it while being interviewed. On the other hand, if he has a bunch of shirts like that, puts up posters of swimsuit models, brings in Playboy and Maxim, and makes a bunch of Youtube-comment level jokes about women, then it could make some women around him feel like he doesn't really respect them and just views them as sex objects. (Provided that he does all of that at work, but that's a given.) (There's obviously a whole range of possibilities in between, but that's not the point.)
Of course, it's most likely the former, where it's just one of many odd shirts and he was just too excited about landing on a comet to think about taking it off before appearing for a public interview.
Plus, being uncomfortable isn't an all or nothing "please checkmark the box if you're uncomfortable", it's a range. A "straw that broke the camel's back" sort of deal, where it's not one big problem but a variety of smaller problems that add up.
And again, if the shirt was of a bunch of men in leather chaps and thongs and whatever else, you would certainly see complaints.[/QUOTE]
The only issue with the shirt is that it is essentially unprofessional, but the people who wrote articles about his shirt instead labelled him a misogynist for wearing the shirt, not unprofessional. That's right, the people who were [i]concerned[/i] about his shirt are people who never had any interest in working in that kind of field anyway.
The man also received the shirt from a friend's wife, so is the lady who gave him the shirt a misogynist as well?
[QUOTE=Zeke129;46490103]There's judging someone based on appearance, and then there's judging someone based on what they made an active choice to wear.
It doesn't even matter if the shirt is actually sexist or not, it's fucking embarrassing and I have to question [B]why someone so clearly stupid is operating spacecraft[/B]. I'd be saying the same thing if he was wearing a shirt for some stupid grindcore band or whatever - if you're going to be on international television you don't wear something that you know is going to alienate people.[/QUOTE]
ok you went off the deep end lmfao
[editline]16th November 2014[/editline]
this is just fucking humiliating on your part
Why do I keep seeing stuff like this? It just seriously makes my blood boil and I honestly wish I could punch all the people that are slandering him in the face several times but I can't and that makes me even more angry.
jesus christ how do i escape from this torment
[QUOTE=Kristviljan;46500443]Why do I keep seeing stuff like this? It just seriously makes my blood boil and I honestly wish I could punch all the people that are slandering him in the face several times but I can't and that makes me even more angry.
jesus christ how do i escape from this torment[/QUOTE]
stop visiting sensationalist headlines
[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;46500448]stop visiting sensationalist headlines[/QUOTE]
How did I not think of this?
[QUOTE=just-a-boy;46495966]Here's something interesting I stumbled upon. It's not exactly defusing the mess, but it's an interesting response nonetheless.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/AGHI3j5.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]
okay i was at work so i didn't have time to come up with a proper response to this post, but...
is mocking a dude for wearing a funky tshirt [I]seriously[/I] on the same level as [I]excusing a rapist's heinous actions?[/I]
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