[QUOTE=milkandcooki;46500635]okay i was at work so i didn't have time to come up with a proper response to this post, but...
is mocking a dude for wearing a funky tshirt [I]seriously[/I] on the same level as [I]excusing a rapist's heinous actions?[/I][/QUOTE]
Not really.
[QUOTE=joes33431;46500285]well no, people get attacked on the internet all the time for simply being there. post a youtube video of any quality and you're bound to have someone call you a name in the comments.
this guy definitely didn't deserve the shit he's been getting, but you can't deny that the political element of this story is a primary reason that it's popular and has so many people either defending him or the people harassing him.[/QUOTE]
i think this controversy is very similar to what happened with jonah hill a few months ago.
don't have an article off hand (can get one if needed), but he said "fag" or another similar gay slur, then immediately turned around and apologized, saying that there was no excuse for his behavior.
despite this, people kept jumping up and defending his "freedom of speech" (despite him not condoning those words at all), while other people kept harassing him for what he said. people [I]on both sides[/I] were big dumbasses. go back in any thread on facepunch and you'll see morons defending what he said, and go on any post chain on tumblr or whatever and you'll see people trying to boycott jonah hill movies.
just like jonah hill, ESA shirt guy apologized and seemed genuinely sorry for what he did, and i respect him for that. he could have easily taken a weird stance to defend his attire, but he didn't because it would've detracted from the comet shit.
Oh, I see, how this works. Blaming the result on the clothing the person wore? Sounds pretty familiar to another situation where clothing has literally no effect on the outcome.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;46500685]i think this controversy is very similar to what happened with jonah hill a few months ago.
don't have an article off hand (can get one if needed), but he said "fag" or another similar gay slur, then immediately turned around and apologized, saying that there was no excuse for his behavior.
despite this, people kept jumping up and defending his "freedom of speech" (despite him not condoning those words at all), while other people kept harassing him for what he said. people [I]on both sides[/I] were big dumbasses. go back in any thread on facepunch and you'll see morons defending what he said, and go on any post chain on tumblr or whatever and you'll see people trying to boycott jonah hill movies.
just like jonah hill, ESA shirt guy apologized and seemed genuinely sorry for what he did, and i respect him for that. he could have easily taken a weird stance to defend his attire, but he didn't because it would've detracted from the comet shit.[/QUOTE]
Do you see anything wrong with people getting so ass-blasted at his clothes that he had to tearfully give an apology?
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;46500635]okay i was at work so i didn't have time to come up with a proper response to this post, but...
is mocking a dude for wearing a funky tshirt [I]seriously[/I] on the same level as [I]excusing a rapist's heinous actions?[/I][/QUOTE]
Yes, because the clothing has no bearing on the event at hand. It's just a load of shit used by idiots who have no real argument as evidence of their shitty argument. If this guy was wearing a shirt with male underwear models on it, would this argument still exist? No. Same with rape, if the woman was fully clothed, would she still have been raped? Yes, therefore the argument of "slutty clothing" is worthless.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;46500685]he could have easily taken a weird stance to defend his attire, but he didn't because it would've detracted from the comet shit.[/QUOTE]
ok, but this was already detracting from the[I] 'comet shit'[/I]
[QUOTE=Zeke129;46490103]There's judging someone based on appearance, and then there's judging someone based on what they made an active choice to wear.
It doesn't even matter if the shirt is actually sexist or not, it's fucking embarrassing and[B] I have to question why someone so clearly stupid is operating spacecraft[/B]. I'd be saying the same thing if he was wearing a shirt for some stupid grindcore band or whatever - if you're going to be on international television you don't wear something that you know is going to alienate people.[/QUOTE]
If you put those guys that wear good clothes on a spacecraft controller, can they operate it? Do they even know how to use it even? This guy have the things needed to land a spacecraft on a [B]fucking comet[/B] , with it surviving travel under hibernation, with a lot of things that can go wrong from launch to landing, and he pulled this off successfully, and you all are complaining about his clothes? WTF man. WTF!
Now, can we please move on, don't give a fuck about this small things, and back to what we are all trying to achieve?
[QUOTE]Mankind was born on Earth. It was never meant to die here.
We've always defined ourselves by the ability to overcome the impossible. And we count these moments. These moments when we dare to aim higher, to break barriers, to reach for the stars, to make the unknown known. We count these moments as our proudest achievements. But we lost all that. Or perhaps we've just forgotten that we are still pioneers. And we've barely begun. And that our greatest accomplishments cannot be behind us, because our destiny lies above us.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=draugur;46500690]Oh, I see, how this works. Blaming the result on the clothing the person wore? Sounds pretty familiar to another situation where clothing has literally no effect on the outcome.[/QUOTE]
Well the clothing definitely [I]did[/I] have an effect on the outcome. Nobody would've caused a shitstorm if he had worn a blank polo. It's not a reasonable or justified response, but it was actually a response.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;46500685]i think this controversy is very similar to what happened with jonah hill a few months ago.
don't have an article off hand (can get one if needed), but he said "fag" or another similar gay slur, then immediately turned around and apologized, saying that there was no excuse for his behavior.
despite this, people kept jumping up and defending his "freedom of speech" (despite him not condoning those words at all), while other people kept harassing him for what he said. people [I]on both sides[/I] were big dumbasses. go back in any thread on facepunch and you'll see morons defending what he said, and go on any post chain on tumblr or whatever and you'll see people trying to boycott jonah hill movies.
just like jonah hill, ESA shirt guy apologized and seemed genuinely sorry for what he did, and i respect him for that. he could have easily taken a weird stance to defend his attire, but he didn't because it would've detracted from the comet shit.[/QUOTE]
oh also a bunch of whackjobs on twitter are casting aspersions on his apology. like, lots of them. one of them went as far as to say it's 'easy to fake tears'. so yeah let's not pretend this was some moderate confusion, this was an attack. whether it was a few people who attacked him or not, it was.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;46500685]i think this controversy is very similar to what happened with jonah hill a few months ago.
don't have an article off hand (can get one if needed), but he said "fag" or another similar gay slur, then immediately turned around and apologized, saying that there was no excuse for his behavior.
despite this, people kept jumping up and defending his "freedom of speech" (despite him not condoning those words at all), while other people kept harassing him for what he said. people [I]on both sides[/I] were big dumbasses. go back in any thread on facepunch and you'll see morons defending what he said, and go on any post chain on tumblr or whatever and you'll see people trying to boycott jonah hill movies.
just like jonah hill, ESA shirt guy apologized and seemed genuinely sorry for what he did, and i respect him for that. he could have easily taken a weird stance to defend his attire, but he didn't because it would've detracted from the comet shit.[/QUOTE]
except Taylor didn't try to provoke anyone or anything. he just wore a shirt a friend gave him, which might have looked little unprofessional, but really it did not actually matter or retract from the real situation at hand.
Why does everyone keep throwing around the term 'unprofessional'? Explain.
[img]http://puu.sh/cSEmK/69b904d8cf.png[/img]
like seriously these people are so suspicious and hateful idgi
[editline]16th November 2014[/editline]
[I]heh ehh... if you have a clean record for a year, pal, then i might accept your apology...[/I]
Also, the damage that is done to prevent more women from entering STEM is done FAR before you even begin to consider careers. That damage is done in early childhood, perhaps as far as school. Boys are encouraged to get their hands dirty and to investigate things, they're given LEGO to play around with, whereas girls aren't, in general, given quite the same treatment.
You don't yearn for understanding of the universe, realise you want to be a physicist, and then see someone make a crude joke and go, "nah, not for me after all." If that's truly the path you're going down, you're going down it regardless. If you don't like the environment, you'll simply find a better one. STEM has a disproportionate gender split due to much deeper societal issues than, "men dissuade women from entering."
[QUOTE=sltungle;46500816]Why does everyone keep throwing around the term 'unprofessional'? Explain.[/QUOTE]
Because people are trying to justify the criticism he received without having to defend the "sexist" portion of the criticism.
[QUOTE=sltungle;46500845]Also, the damage that is done to prevent more women from entering STEM is done FAR before you even begin to consider careers. That damage is done in early childhood, perhaps as far as school. Boys are encouraged to get their hands dirty and to investigate things, they're given LEGO to play around with, whereas girls aren't, in general, given quite the same treatment.
You don't yearn for understanding of the universe, realise you want to be a physicist, and then see someone make a crude joke and go, "nah, not for me after all." If that's truly the path you're going down, you're going down it regardless. If you don't like the environment, you'll simply find a better one. STEM has a disproportionate gender split due to much deeper societal issues than, "men dissuade women from entering."[/QUOTE]
Ironically everyone making a big deal and contributing to the notion that there is ridiculous gender discrimination is more damaging than what little sexism there actually is. Someone wearing a shirt generally isn't a big deal, but everyone telling you it's an impenetrable boys club with rampant sexism might get your attention, even if they're outsiders who don't know what they're talking about.
It's a fair claim that people complaining about his shirt have done more to drive women out of STEM than his shirt ever would have.
[QUOTE=residntevl;46500330]The only issue with the shirt is that it is essentially unprofessional, but the people who wrote articles about his shirt instead labelled him a misogynist for wearing the shirt, not unprofessional. That's right, the people who were [i]concerned[/i] about his shirt are people who never had any interest in working in that kind of field anyway.
The man also received the shirt from a friend's wife, so is the lady who gave him the shirt a misogynist as well?[/QUOTE]
As I said earlier, I do think that they went too far. It's not quite misogynist, just potentially discomforting.
And sure, the journalists aren't going to join STEM, but other people do, and there are at least some that would find such a thing uncomfortable. Sure, it alone probably wouldn't be enough to make them decide to join a different company, but it isn't exactly helping.
[QUOTE=draugur;46500690]Oh, I see, how this works. Blaming the result on the clothing the person wore? Sounds pretty familiar to another situation where clothing has literally no effect on the outcome.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=draugur;46500701]Yes, because the clothing has no bearing on the event at hand. It's just a load of shit used by idiots who have no real argument as evidence of their shitty argument. If this guy was wearing a shirt with male underwear models on it, would this argument still exist? No. Same with rape, if the woman was fully clothed, would she still have been raped? Yes, therefore the argument of "slutty clothing" is worthless.[/QUOTE]
"wearing certain clothing has nothing to do with people telling you that your choice in clothing is shit" If there's any example of someone shutting their ears and going "la la la no you're wrong", it's this.
If it were male underwear models, sure, the complaint wouldn't be misogyny, but there certainly would be complaints.
[QUOTE=CheeseMan;46500818][img]http://puu.sh/cSEmK/69b904d8cf.png[/img]
like seriously these people are so suspicious and hateful idgi
[editline]16th November 2014[/editline]
[I]heh ehh... if you have a clean record for a year, pal, then i might accept your apology...[/I][/QUOTE]
To be fair, "don't wear that specific shirt to work for a year" isn't that hard of a thing to follow.
On the other hand, this seems like the kind of person who would search for pictures of him wearing it in private or photoshopped ones of him wearing it elsewhere and say "Ha! You're a misogynist!"
[QUOTE=Last or First;46500935]To be fair, "don't wear that specific shirt to work for a year" isn't that hard of a thing to follow.
On the other hand, this seems like the kind of person who would search for pictures of him wearing it in private or photoshopped ones of him wearing it elsewhere and say "Ha! You're a misogynist!"[/QUOTE]
except something that objectifies women has been expanded so far that in order to fulfill the person's request they'll probably have to police all of their behavior for a year, just so that they might accept their apology. and that's assuming she's even sincere about it in the first place.
[QUOTE=Last or First;46500935]As I said earlier, I do think that they went too far. It's not quite misogynist, just potentially discomforting.
And sure, the journalists aren't going to join STEM, but other people do, and there are at least some that would find such a thing uncomfortable. Sure, it alone probably wouldn't be enough to make them decide to join a different company, but it isn't exactly helping.
"wearing certain clothing has nothing to do with people telling you that your choice in clothing is shit" If there's any example of someone shutting their ears and going "la la la no you're wrong", it's this.
If it were male underwear models, sure, the complaint wouldn't be misogyny, but there certainly would be complaints.
To be fair, "don't wear that specific shirt to work for a year" isn't that hard of a thing to follow.
On the other hand, this seems like the kind of person who would search for pictures of him wearing it in private or photoshopped ones of him wearing it elsewhere and say "Ha! You're a misogynist!"[/QUOTE]
Imagine being this determined to try and justify derailing the entire focus of a monumental scientific accomplishment and drive a scientist to tears over something fucking trivial.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;46490103]There's judging someone based on appearance, and then there's judging someone based on what they made an active choice to wear.
It doesn't even matter if the shirt is actually sexist or not, it's fucking embarrassing and I have to question why someone so clearly stupid is operating spacecraft. I'd be saying the same thing if he was wearing a shirt for some stupid grindcore band or whatever - if you're going to be on international television you don't wear something that you know is going to alienate people.[/QUOTE]
That bitch chose to wear slutty clothes so she deserved to get shamed
Nope doesn't work yet
Oh boo hoo, get the fuck over it.
That shirt is gonna cost billions by 2200. I'm calling it first.
Don't know if it's been posted already, but you can (potentially) buy the shirt here: [url]http://www.alohaland.com/hawaiian-shirts[/url]
Randomly stumbled across it on a thread on this on another forum. Apparently this is her site, and she designs these things for a living. Personally, I wouldn't pay 60 dollars for it, but someone might be interested.
[QUOTE=Zephyrs;46501618]Don't know if it's been posted already, but you can (potentially) buy the shirt here: [url]http://www.alohaland.com/hawaiian-shirts[/url]
Randomly stumbled across it on a thread on this on another forum. Apparently this is her site, and she designs these things for a living. Personally, I wouldn't pay 60 dollars for it, but someone might be interested.[/QUOTE]
Holy shit, that comic sans.
Also, look again, it's sold out apparently.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;46500685]i think this controversy is very similar to what happened with jonah hill a few months ago.
don't have an article off hand (can get one if needed), but he said "fag" or another similar gay slur, then immediately turned around and apologized, saying that there was no excuse for his behavior.
despite this, people kept jumping up and defending his "freedom of speech" (despite him not condoning those words at all), while other people kept harassing him for what he said. people [I]on both sides[/I] were big dumbasses. go back in any thread on facepunch and you'll see morons defending what he said, and go on any post chain on tumblr or whatever and you'll see people trying to boycott jonah hill movies.
just like jonah hill, ESA shirt guy apologized and seemed genuinely sorry for what he did, and i respect him for that. he could have easily taken a weird stance to defend his attire, but he didn't because it would've detracted from the comet shit.[/QUOTE]
Did you seriously equate a homophobic slur to wearing a shirt?
[QUOTE=Zephyrs;46501618]Don't know if it's been posted already, but you can (potentially) buy the shirt here: [url]http://www.alohaland.com/hawaiian-shirts[/url]
Randomly stumbled across it on a thread on this on another forum. Apparently this is her site, and she designs these things for a living. Personally, I wouldn't pay 60 dollars for it, but someone might be interested.[/QUOTE]
even the site it's sold on is tacky looking
[QUOTE=froztshock;46501642]Holy shit, that comic sands.
Also, look again, it's sold out apparently.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.tropicallyyours.com/[/url]
[t]http://www.tropicallyyours.com/images/sexist-ani.gif[/t]
There appears to be better alternatives for now.
sure maybe it's an inappropriate design but i don't think it's sexist
it could be covered in males and females, or just males, and not be seen that way
[QUOTE=geogzm;46501866]sure maybe it's an inappropriate design but i don't think it's sexist
it could be covered in males and females, or just males, and not be seen that way[/QUOTE]
thats just because some people are just looking to get offended over anything
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;46501873]thats just because some people are just looking to get offended over anything[/QUOTE]
it's not so much people looking to be offended as it is people looking to crusade against something and jump to conclusions
misinformed self-righteousness, you could say.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;46501873]thats just because some people are just looking to get offended over anything[/QUOTE]
wait though are you actually saying that a professional wearing a highly sexualized shirt in an office environment is acceptable?
this is sexual harassment 101. whether or not you claim it's misogyny is completely irrelevant, it's extremely clear to anyone that wearing a shirt like that can easily make someone feel uncomfortable. especially one that features only one of the sexes.
i'd be fucking uncomfortable if i strolled into work and saw a woman wearing a shirt that featured scantily clad highly sexualized buff dudes.
it doesn't need to escalate to the level that it has, but this sort of thing - the shirt - is this innocent thing that the guy doesn't intend to hurt or make anyone uncomfortable. but this one little innocent thing piles up with a ton of innocent other little things and creates this overarching culture that pushes many women away from the field.
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