A speaker for Women's March was a raping, kidnapping murderer- is also getting a movie about her. - Polidicks

[QUOTE=ferrus;51934160]also full of pseudophilosophical stuff like this [t]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C6b3Nr_VUAAcdwR.jpg:large[/t][/QUOTE] People like this who think they're god's gift to earth really piss me off for some reason.

The Amazing Atheist made a very nice video discussing this topic a while ago. I really like TTA; he's one of the few atheist YouTubers who actually has the balls to challenge Islam. Skip to 2:42 because at the beginning of the video, he talks a bit about Sargon of Akkad (another awesome YouTuber) getting banned from Twitter at the time he made this video. [video]https://youtu.be/AHmmYDyyXXk[/video]

only on facepunch will i see someone defending a mudering rapist just because they're a feminist woman

[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51935387]Then kill all of them. That is the only logical conclusion if they dont deserve any chances to come back to life. There is a reason a second-degree murder doesnt cost you your life. What does she have to do, catch a bird with her mouth? Save an orphanage full of children from a fire? She served her time, earned a degree, (presumably) got a job, now she is an activist for female prisoner rights. She is making contributions to the society. Then alt-right news circle picks her up and throws her into th trash because of something that happened 32 years ago. You probably werent even conceived then, even as a concept, I sure wasnt. Shit is almost as close to WWII as it is to today.[/QUOTE] She had 32 years to do whatever she wants with her life. Her victim didn't. Why should she live her life how she wants to when she ended the life of another? Do you think it's fair for the victims family just because she served her time? Because while she's alive he's still dead. Where is the justice in that? If it was a simple burglary where no one was hurt I might be on your side, but she participated in the rape, torture, and murder of another person. Far as I'm concerned no amount of community service and goodwill can change the fact that she still violated the rights of another human being and decided that his life wasn't worth as much as her life.

[QUOTE=jimbobjoe1234;51935542]She had 32 years to do whatever she wants with her life. Her victim didn't. Why should she live her life how she wants to when she ended the life of another? Do you think it's fair for the victims family just because she served her time? Because while she's alive he's still dead. Where is the justice in that? If it was a simple burglary where no one was hurt I might be on your side, but she participated in the rape, torture, and murder of another person. Far as I'm concerned no amount of community service and goodwill can change the fact that she still violated the rights of another human being and decided that his life wasn't worth as much as her life.[/QUOTE] the worst thing is how many people view her as a hero right now. a brave revolutionary.

So someone here mentioned that she talks about her prison time. Does she ever tell people in her speeches why exactly she was put in prison? Because to me that detail is pretty important to the whole forgiveness angle.

[QUOTE=goldenbuttocks;51935367]only on facepunch will i see someone defending a mudering rapist just because they're a feminist woman[/QUOTE] Not because she's a feminist woman. Like shit, try reading a little bit before pulling shit out of your ass. It's because she's a fucking human being who's shown she is rehabilitated and contributing to society, and therefore shouldn't be treated like a worthless piece of shit. Why even rehabilitate people if you won't let them be part of society again? [QUOTE=Bertie;51935652]So someone here mentioned that she talks about her prison time. Does she ever tell people in her speeches why exactly she was put in prison? Because to me that detail is pretty important to the whole forgiveness angle.[/QUOTE] I don't know how many times it can be said, but it's right in her bio on her website if that's anything to go off of.

[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51935387]Then kill all of them. That is the only logical conclusion if they dont deserve any chances to come back to life. There is a reason a second-degree murder doesnt cost you your life. What does she have to do, catch a bird with her mouth? Save an orphanage full of children from a fire? She served her time, earned a degree, (presumably) got a job, now she is an activist for female prisoner rights. She is making contributions to the society. Then alt-right news circle picks her up and throws her into th trash because of something that happened 32 years ago. You probably werent even conceived then, even as a concept, I sure wasnt. Shit is almost as close to WWII as it is to today.[/QUOTE] I didn't say to kill them. I am saying that you can't expect people to instantly forgive them for their Crimes. She has to EARN her respect back, EARN her trust back. She killed a person, you can't expect me to respect that. The respect I would have had to any criminal I knew personally, would be gone straight out the window when they committed the Crime. I don't trust criminals full stop, why should I trust her? Trust is a two way street. [QUOTE=Octavius;51935667]Not because she's a feminist woman. Like shit, try reading a little bit harder. It's because she's a fucking human being who's shown she is rehabilitated and contributing to society, and therefore shouldn't be treated like a worthless piece of shit. Why even rehabilitate people if you won't let them be part of society again? I don't know how many times it can be said, but it's right in her bio on her website if that's anything to go off of.[/QUOTE] She has to earn respect and forgiveness. Just like Drug Addicts, Alcohol Addicts, Smoking Addicts and so on, you have to PROVE Rehab worked, that you are a better person, that you won't go down the same path. Rehabilitation doesn't always work, people can hide their feelings on the inside. I am not saying she is going to do it again. But until she proves Rehab worked for her, until she earns the respect and Forgiveness that she lost when she consented to [b]KILLING A HUMAN[/B] Once you walk down that path, it's not an easy way out, trust by EVERYONE has pretty much been destroyed, same with respect. So what if she went to Rehab? It might not have worked, we don't know this. She has to [b]PROVE[/b] it. _EDIT_ I didn't want to bring Hitler into this but I honestly think it will be the only way to get you to see it another way. Let's say Hitler got captured before he killed himself. And by some miracle avoided Execution, and was sentenced to life. By going through Rehab, he can easily get out earlier. Do you honestly plan to forgive him? To give him Respect and Trust? No, cause he [b]KILLED THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE.[/b] I don't care if it's 1 life VS Thousands. [b]IT'S STILL A LIFE.[/b] A life that had meaning to their Friends, to their families, to themselves. You can't EVER give that back. Once you take it, it's gone. You have to earn the trust and respect. I don't care if you get every Psychiatrist, every Therapist, every doctor in the world to say "Yeah the person is completely rehabilitated and is set to be a contributing person to society and become a better person." And actually have evidence. You still have the earn it, that is how life works.

[QUOTE=Xonax;51935701]I didn't say to kill them. I am saying that you can't expect people to instantly forgive them for their Crimes. She has to EARN her respect back, EARN her trust back. She killed a person, you can't expect me to respect that. The respect I would have had to any criminal I knew personally, would be gone straight out the window when they committed the Crime. I don't trust criminals full stop, why should I trust her? Trust is a two way street. So what if it's in her Bio. SHE HAS TO EARN RESPECT AND FORGIVENESS. Just like Drug Addicts, Alcohol Addicts, Smoking Addicts and so on, you have to PROVE Rehab worked, that you are a better person, that you won't go down the same path. Rehabilitation doesn't always work, people can hide their feelings on the inside. I am not saying she is going to do it again. But until she proves Rehab worked for her, until she earns the respect and Forgiveness that she lost when she consented to [b]KILLING A HUMAN[/B] Once you walk down that path, it's not an easy way out, trust by EVERYONE has pretty much been destroyed, same with respect. So what if she went to Rehab? It might not have worked, we don't know this. She has to PROVE it.[/QUOTE] Well she hasn't re-offended in the past 30 years and has been actively contributing to society since she got out of prison, so that's a good track record. If she was just released yesterday, okay, sure we'd have to wait. But she's been out for 5 years. This isn't a case of "Hmmmm, well we don't know, she might go murderer somebody again tomorrow!" How much proof do you need? Does she need to single-handedly defeat ISIS while carrying three orphans on her back or something? What's the proof necessary more than the regret already shown and the active work towards contributing to society? And to your Hitler example: No they are not the same. There is a fuckign difference between a serial killer, a mass murderer, and a fucking second degree murder. We should not treat them all the same. Somebody who enjoys killing people or has killed millions is WAY different than somebody who kills a person due to a horrible and stupid choice.

[QUOTE=Octavius;51935719]Well she hasn't re-offended in the past 30 years and has been actively contributing to society since she got out of prison, so that's a good track record. If she was just released yesterday, okay, sure we'd have to wait. But she's been out for 5 years. This isn't a case of "Hmmmm, well we don't know, she might go murderer somebody again tomorrow!" How much proof do you need? Does she need to single-handedly defeat ISIS while carrying three orphans on her back or something? What's the proof necessary more than the regret already shown and the active work towards contributing to society?[/QUOTE] Of course she hasn't reoffended in 30 years, she was in jail for 27 of them. Like you've said, she's been out for 5 years. That is not enough time to fully know if she is Rehabilitated. People who go through Rehab can go years without relapsing. All she has to do is be an active person in Society, or not. I am not asking her to stop ISIS, cure Cancer, feed everyone in the world. All I am asking, is that she puts in the effort to show she is better, to show she has changed. So far she has shown regret, hasn't killed and has been a speaker for Violence against Women. So far so good. It's a start. Just like early life, you have to build yourself, build your worth, show you are worth the time, effort, and acknowledgement. She doesn't get a free pass, no Criminal does, No one does.

[QUOTE=Xonax;51935742]Of course she hasn't reoffended in 30 years, she was in jail for 27 of them. Like you've said, she's been out for 5 years. That is not enough time to fully know if she is Rehabilitated. People who go through Rehab can go years without relapsing. All she has to do is be an active person in Society, or not. I am not asking her to stop ISIS, cure Cancer, feed everyone in the world. All I am asking, is that she puts in the effort to show she is better, to show she has changed. So far she has shown regret, hasn't killed and has been a speaker for Violence against Women. So far so good. It's a start. Just like early life, you have to build yourself, build your worth, show you are worth the time, effort, and acknowledgement. She doesn't get a free pass, no Criminal does, No one does.[/QUOTE] So let's not criticize her for contributing to society then. And I don't think being a speaker at this event is all she has done in the past 5 years, and I doubt she'd be a speaker if she didn't have a history of contributing to society already, since it's not like they were only pulling up random people from a crowd.

[QUOTE=Octavius;51935719] And to your Hitler example: No they are not the same. There is a fuckign difference between a serial killer, a mass murderer, and a fucking second degree murder. We should not treat them all the same. Somebody who enjoys killing people or has killed millions is WAY different than somebody who kills a person due to a horrible and stupid choice.[/QUOTE] To me, all murderers are the same until proven otherwise. They took a life, the most valuable thing in LIFE. The more lives you take, the worse you are. Taking 1 life alone, on purpose, with consent, is extremely awful enough. [editline]9th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Octavius;51935753]So let's not work to prevent her from being able to contribute then. And I don't think being a speaker at this even isn't all she has done in the past 5 years, and I doubt she'd be a speaker if she didn't have a history of contributing to society already, since it's not like they were only pulling up random people from a crowd.[/QUOTE] I'm not saying that we should prevent her. I am saying that she has more to do, I am not going to listen to people like her until they prove they are worth listening to after the crimes they commit. Even if it goes against or for my Beliefs. _EDIT_ She is not exactly the best choice to have as a speaker due to her past events too. Cause people will just say the same thing as I've been saying. She has to prove her worth, prove she is better, prove she is worth listening to.

Nothing is wrong with letting the woman move on from her past after paying her debt to society. Everything is wrong with placing her as a figurehead of a movement made to shape society's morals. The crime she committed is of [I]extreme moral turpitude.[/I] Would you hire a rehabilitated pedophile as the principal of your school? Would you take a person convicted of severely beating and abusing their spouse as a marriage counselor? Time served or not, [I]she tortured and took a human life.[/I] Some things cross a line that you cannot come back from, and of those things, this is [I]far, far beyond that line.[/I]

[QUOTE=Xonax;51935754]To me, all murderers are the same until proven otherwise. They took a life, the most valuable thing in LIFE. The more lives you take, the worse you are. Taking 1 life alone, on purpose, with consent, is extremely awful enough.[/QUOTE] So should there be no difference between the charges and punishments of second degree murder, first degree murder, and crimes against humanity?

[QUOTE=Octavius;51935760]So should there be no difference between the charges and punishments of second degree murder, first degree murder, and crimes against humanity?[/QUOTE] Are you even reading my posts? I said [b]To me[/b] I did not say [b]There is NO difference whatsoever.[/b] I personally, [b]PERSONALLY[/b] believe that you are scum for taking a life, no matter if it's 1, or the entire population of the Earth plus some. Of course the more you kill the more despicable, the more terrible, evil, vile person you become, but either way, I don't think highly of you if you taken a life. [editline]9th March 2017[/editline] Oh and just to clarify. I am not saying that 1 Life taken means you are on par with Hitler, I am saying, there is a Scale [b]FOR ME[/b] 1 is "Awful person.", Thousands upon Thousands is "Worse than Hitler" [editline]9th March 2017[/editline] You don't just take a life. You don't just hurt the person you kill. You cause a domino effect, you hurt the people the victim knows, their friends, family, even people in the same town as them who don't even know them. You are causing more harm than just taking a life. And taking a life is a lot of harm, it's really awful and messed up.

[QUOTE=Xonax;51935765]Are you even reading my posts? I said [b]To me[/b] I did not say [b]There is NO difference whatsoever.[/b] I personally, [b]PERSONALLY[/b] believe that you are scum for taking a life, no matter if it's 1, or the entire population of the Earth plus some. Of course the more you kill the more despicable, the more terrible, evil, vile person you become, but either way, I don't think highly of you if you taken a life.[/QUOTE] I am reading your posts. I think it's interesting that you claim they're all the same because they've taken at least a single life, but you also go on to recognize that one is worse and more despicable than another. It seems contradictory to me to say they're all the same, yet recognize there is also a difference. I'm not debating whether or not a murder is harmful or not, I'm just saying I think they can and should be allowed to contribute to society after such an action if they've been rehabilitated.

[QUOTE=Octavius;51935779]I am reading your posts. I think it's interesting that you claim they're all the same because they've taken at least a single life, but you also go on to recognize that one is worse and more despicable than another. It seems contradictory to me to say they're all the same, yet recognize there is also a difference.[/QUOTE] There is a difference in the sense as to how lenient I will be towards them in the future. But the main thing is, you are a murderer, you don't deserve my forgiveness nor respect. I don't care how many you killed, 1 or 1 million. At the end of the day, you took a life, you hurt a family, friends, a town even. [editline]9th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Octavius;51935779] I'm not debating whether or not a murder is harmful or not, I'm just saying I think they can and should be allowed to contribute to society after such an action if they've been rehabilitated.[/QUOTE] Obviously, but they have to earn the respect, the forgiveness and the trust they lost when they took a life. [editline]9th March 2017[/editline] You've said it yourself....kinda. Rehab doesn't erase the past. Rehab sets the future. It isn't a band-aid that makes everything better, it isn't a "Get out of Jail" free card. It's a start, a new beginning, a new hope for the person. But like I said, and you've said, and many people have before. It doesn't, and never will, erase the past. The past happened, the crimes were committed, they lost all the respect, trust and any possible forgiveness. Criminals are lucky that they are even Forgiven. We are not obligated to forgive any Criminal that harmed someone, I don't think people would be too upset if a bunch of Murderers were killed, or rapists, abusers. I mean that's how it used to be. But time has changed, we have given them a second chance, despite some Criminals not deserving a first chance. They have to prove to us that we should trust them, forgive them, respect them and listen to them.

[QUOTE=justinl132;51934553]Does Detroit ring a bell?[/QUOTE] Have you ever been to Detroit? Detroit is actually recovering and surprisingly we did so without executing every criminal with extreme prejudice in order to fulfill bloodthirsty people's justice boners.

[QUOTE=JeSuisIkea;51935991] executing every criminal with extreme prejudice in order to fulfill bloodthirsty people's justice boners.[/QUOTE] you're still on this but i can't find the people in this thread that say we should kill every criminal ever

[QUOTE=TheJoey;51936113]you're still on this but i can't find the people in this thread that say we should kill every criminal ever[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Why should we give them the benefit of the doubt? They committed a crime against innocence, you cannot show mercy to them.[/QUOTE]

There is a difference between allowing someone to live their life and [i]trusting[/i] them. She is not owed trust. I do not, nor will I ever, trust her.