Didn't people call the ufologist folk who said this shit was happening crazy lunatics..? :v:
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;46765084]Didn't people call the ufologist folk who said this shit was happening crazy lunatics..? :v:[/QUOTE]
Being correct on a single point does not cure someone of lunacy.
[QUOTE=formatme;46762263]Its hard to control when the CIA just bribes courts etc with money.[/QUOTE]
The US government is aware of and condones everything the CIA does.
[QUOTE=archangel125;46765973]The US government is aware of and condones everything the CIA does.[/QUOTE]
That's not necessarily true. In this case, the administration was well aware of the torture program and completely condoned it. But the thing about the CIA is, it's a bureaucracy that outlasts any given administration. They are very capable of keeping secrets from their supposed "oversight".
Then they need to be culled. Whether or not a government is being tricked by its child agency, that government is ultimately responsible. Incompetence isn't an excuse.
[QUOTE=catbarf;46764553]Nazis took children and subjected them to dissection while still alive to learn the workings of the human body.
The CIA used a behavioral technique to try to get detainees to cooperate and give up information willingly.
Not even remotely in the same category, and the title of this thread is sensationalist as hell for clearly trying to connote the sort of experimentation the Nazis and Japanese did to prisoners when the extent of the 'human experimentation' is applying known psychological theories to interrogation. Even regular police regularly engage in psychological manipulation (good cop/bad cop) to extract information, and the FBI has entire libraries on psychological techniques for interrogation without physical abuse. That's the alternative to physical torture that everyone keeps saying the CIA should have been doing instead when they hold the FBI up as a better example.
And for what it's worth, these two 'psychologists' were armchair psychologists and have been known since the closure of the torture program to have basically gamed the system for profit. They weren't qualified and didn't know what the hell they were doing, but they convinced the cabinet to put them in charge of designing a torture program against the recommendations of CIA senior officials. They didn't have any idea what they were doing, but to call an amateurish interrogation method based on decades-old psychological research 'human experimentation' is one hell of an exaggeration.[/QUOTE]
Ironically, the Nazi's arguably best interrogator was Hanns Schnarff. He opposed torture and abuse, and favored for trying to get on a prisoner's good side.
[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanns_Scharff[/URL]
[QUOTE=Bradyns;46762444]This is Nazi-tier kinds of fucked up.[/QUOTE]
one dealt with suspected terrorists with torture and the other dealt with 60 million innocent civilians with gas chambers
what the fuck are you smoking
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;46766007]They are very capable of keeping secrets from their supposed "oversight".[/QUOTE]
There are so many ridiculous layers of red tape every intelligence agency has to go through to get anything done, and so much infighting and competition within the agencies themselves, that the idea of any one agency not only maintaining secret projects without the knowledge of Congress, the ODNI, the President, the Inspector General assigned to that agency, and the other agencies that work alongside it, but hiding it despite intense pressure to stretch limited budgets and report any misconduct through whistleblowing programs that Obama has heavily expanded since '08, is simply nothing short of conspiracy theory.
The rogue agency with shadowy programs that nobody in government can keep tabs on is an idea sold by Hollywood writers, conspiracy theorists, and Congressmen desperately trying to save face by absolving responsibility. A government that gets into pissing matches over funding healthcare and axes expensive programs at every opportunity would never, ever in a million years tolerate an agency that squanders its budget on unapproved projects, risking international exposure and damage to public relations, nor would they set it loose with vague goals and little oversight.
The high levels of government are aware of everything that every intelligence agency is doing. They'll tell you otherwise when it helps them smooth things over with angry foreign leaders, or if it convinces you they were genuinely innocent and should be re-elected.
[QUOTE=catbarf;46767012]There are so many ridiculous layers of red tape every intelligence agency has to go through to get anything done, and so much infighting and competition within the agencies themselves, that the idea of any one agency not only maintaining secret projects without the knowledge of Congress, the ODNI, the President, the Inspector General assigned to that agency, and the other agencies that work alongside it, but hiding it despite intense pressure to stretch limited budgets and report any misconduct through whistleblowing programs that Obama has heavily expanded since '08, is simply nothing short of conspiracy theory.
The rogue agency with shadowy programs that nobody in government can keep tabs on is an idea sold by Hollywood writers, conspiracy theorists, and Congressmen desperately trying to save face by absolving responsibility. A government that gets into pissing matches over funding healthcare and axes expensive programs at every opportunity would never, ever in a million years tolerate an agency that squanders its budget on unapproved projects, risking international exposure and damage to public relations, nor would they set it loose with vague goals and little oversight.
The high levels of government are aware of everything that every intelligence agency is doing. They'll tell you otherwise when it helps them smooth things over with angry foreign leaders, or if it convinces you they were genuinely innocent and should be re-elected.[/QUOTE]
Somehow I doubt the Obama administration directly ordered or condoned the CIA hacking the computers of the congresspeople who were supposed to be overseeing them.
[QUOTE=Bradyns;46762444]This is Nazi-tier kinds of fucked up.[/QUOTE]
Not really. From the description it sounds psyops and inops. There's already protocols and methods in place to hamper someone psychologically, to break people. Holding them with a bag and muffles on their heads for extended periods of time before anything happens and many other things.
This just seems to be a rework or update of the methods, particularly trying to subvert things instilled by SERE training.
can we bring back bad reading.
[editline]22nd December 2014[/editline]
and can we ban over sensationalsit titles. Sensationalist headlines is a joke not a rule.
Would any of the 20+ people who rated me dumb explain how I'm wrong in saying the title is sensationalist bullshit?
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;46767805]Somehow I doubt the Obama administration directly ordered or condoned the CIA hacking the computers of the congresspeople who were supposed to be overseeing them.[/QUOTE]
Ah, yes, I forgot to add the media, which loves to play up any spy scandal. For example, detailing CIA officers at a CIA facility looking at what Congressman looked up on CIA computers at a CIA facility, and calling it 'hacking'.
[QUOTE=Apache249;46767983]Would any of the 20+ people who rated me dumb explain how I'm wrong in saying the title is sensationalist bullshit?[/QUOTE]
Because this is the Sensationalist Headlines sub-forum?
[QUOTE=LuaChobo;46762500]the japanese did worse stuff than the nazis in terms of human experimentation tbh, only difference is that the US got all of the data when they surrendered[/QUOTE]
I don't think you should put weight on who killed and tortured the most.
Both were bad. Nobody was in any way "worse" than the other.
[QUOTE=DMGaina;46769774]I don't think you should put weight on who killed and tortured the most.
Both were bad. Nobody was in any way "worse" than the other.[/QUOTE]
Well I dunno man, it depends would you rather have parts of your GI tract removed to see if you can function without it or would you rather have frost bitten limbs so people can study it's effects on flesh?
[QUOTE=ThePanther;46769748]Because this is the Sensationalist Headlines sub-forum?[/QUOTE]
It's a fucking joke not a rule.
[QUOTE=ThePanther;46769748]Because this is the Sensationalist Headlines sub-forum?[/QUOTE]
Nah you've been here long enough to know it's not meant to be taken seriously.
[editline]22nd December 2014[/editline]
Not to mention the fact that you didn't answer my question.
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethical_human_experimentation_in_the_United_States]I thought this was old news[/url]
You're cherry picking this thread as wrongly having a sensationalist title when it's a common thing to see in this sub-forum, jokingly or not.
Also, how is "CIA experimented on humans in black sites" sensationalist for [quote=Quotes from article]"Human experimentation was a core feature of the CIA’s torture program." "They designed interrogation and detention protocols that they and others applied to people imprisoned in the agency’s secret 'black sites.'"[/quote]??
[QUOTE=Dougz;46770717][url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethical_human_experimentation_in_the_United_States]I thought this was old news[/url][/QUOTE]
Many people don't know about the history of it. And just because it has been done in the past does not in any way mean that it should continue happening. For example:
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination_in_the_United_States[/url]
Just because discrimination happened in the past and is still happening today, does not mean it should continue to be that way.
[QUOTE=ThePanther;46770776]You're cherry picking this thread as wrongly having a sensationalist title when it's a common thing to see in this sub-forum, jokingly or not.
[/QUOTE]
Except this isn't the first time we've complained about it? Just because it's common doesn't mean it's not dumb.
reading opening post makes me feel sick
[QUOTE=ThePanther;46770776]You're cherry picking this thread as wrongly having a sensationalist title when it's a common thing to see in this sub-forum, jokingly or not.
Also, how is "CIA experimented on humans in black sites" sensationalist for ??[/QUOTE]
The articles are sensationalist garbage themselves. They (and the title) are phrased in a way that evokes imagery of Nazi and Japanese atrocities and such. The information in the articles is not new. The fact thatthe. US's interrogation techniques had been developed by the two psychologists isn't new (it's been on Wikipedia for years, for example). The articles twists this information. They weren't using experimental interrogation techniques. No no no that's not scary enough! They were conducting human experimenting! That's more like it! The articles mention learned helplessness, saying that it was derived from an experiment for dogs and they wanted to see it it worked on humans. This is complete farce. Look up Seligman and Haier. They studied learned helplessness on dogs, but it was for the purpose of studying human behavior. It explained why people stay in abusive relationships instead of getting out. They weren't experimenting on learned helplessness at the black sites, it was common knowledge by then. They were interrogating, not "experimenting on humans". To say so is disgusting yellow journalism, nothing more.
[editline]22nd December 2014[/editline]
As for my supposed cherry picking of his thread, most of the time you guys see right through the sensationalism. This time you guys ate it up.
I admit, the articles do have overly sensational titles, I thought you were referring to the title of this thread specifically.
[QUOTE=ThePanther;46771095]I admit, the articles do have overly sensational titles, I thought you were referring to the title of this thread specifically.[/QUOTE]
I'd agree with you wholeheartedly. The problem is that this article unfortunately matches the title perfectly.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
