In 'highly unusual' move, DOJ secretly invited reporters to view texts sent by ousted FBI agents - Polidicks

yeah silence idk why you keep thinking bda is calling for a "violent overthrow" or whatever when literally all he's been saying is that they should be held accountable and if they aren't and get away with it, the people should revolt he's really not saying anything that wild and crazy here

[QUOTE=BlindSniper17;52980459]Let's hope you both are right then, because... --tweets-- [/QUOTE] I think this is probably the more important tweet: [MEDIA]https://twitter.com/RepAdamSchiff/status/941739267017060352[/MEDIA] As much as Republicans are pretending to "cooperate" with these investigations, they're actively refusing to participate. Remember [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1587962"]this thread[/URL] from a week ago? As far as I can tell Gowdy has still refused to issue subpoenas, or even allow his committee to have a vote on the matter. People have to remember that Republicans knew about the Russian interference [URL="https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/obama-orders-review-of-russian-hacking-during-presidential-campaign/2016/12/09/31d6b300-be2a-11e6-94ac-3d324840106c_story.html"]prior to the election[/URL] and actively refused to cooperate back then too, because it was politically advantageous to do so. This is [I]their[/I] fucking mess and they're making it worse every day. It's pretty hard sitting around writing letters or waiting to vote out of respect for public institutions Republicans clearly only hold contempt for.

[QUOTE=LZTYBRN;52980637]yeah silence idk why you keep thinking bda is calling for a "violent overthrow" or whatever when literally all he's been saying is that they should be held accountable and if they aren't and get away with it, the people should revolt he's really not saying anything that wild and crazy here[/QUOTE] But if it's not wild and crazy then it's sensible and logical and we can't have that because holding people accountable is [I]crazy[/I] when it comes to Republicans. I mean, seriously silence: You keep saying 'but we can just do the investigation again and impeach and and' So here's what's what on that. (A) 'We can just do the investigation again' To what end? What would that serve? The evidence would become no more compelling - evidence doesn't become 'more damning' the more times you find the same evidence again and again. The investigations on [I]right now[/I] are the ones they're trying to shut down as well - so they [I]also don't want investigations[/I]. (B) 'They'll just impeach' You're stating that the Congress that allows the President to fire the person who's investigating TrumpRussia that [B]doesn't immediately react with impeachment[/B] will then decide to impeach because... why? There's no reason for them to. They [I]already[/I] demonstrated that they're just not going to impeach. There's an uncountable number of reasons to impeach Trump [B]right now[/B] and they're still not impeaching him. Instead, they're talking about shutting down investigations into this matter. That doesn't state that they're going to impeach him, it states that they don't [I]care[/I] about impeaching him and worse that they don't [I]care if there are facts that are impeachment-worthy in said investigation after it has already produced several arrests and guilty verdicts before it has even concluded its investigatory phase[/I]. I really can't make this clearer for you. If they allow Trump to fire Mueller, then they will not impeach him under any circumstance except ones [I]they[/I] find politically convenient. You're trying to state that people in charge of the rule of law who choose to ignore the rule of law will then decide to vigorously enforce the rule of law. Your 'faith' is irrelevant. If the checks and balances [B]choose not to check and balance[/B] then those checks and balances no longer exist. You're trying to have your cake and eat it too and that's simply not how this works.

Reading threads like these really just make me wanna die.. The GOP will let Trump fire Mueller and they'll rig the midterms and stay in power forever and America is dead and Russia has destroyed western civilization and we're living in 1984 and what's the fucking point to any of it, why even bother going through this fucking farce of a life

[QUOTE=Popularvote;52981197]Reading threads like these really just make me wanna die.. The GOP will let Trump fire Mueller and they'll rig the midterms and stay in power forever and America is dead and Russia has destroyed western civilization and we're living in 1984 and what's the fucking point to any of it, why even bother going through this fucking farce of a life[/QUOTE] scientists confirm: everything completely irreversibly fucked forever, literally nothing good at all to happen for next 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years, with the exception of the merciful heat death of the universe [editline]16th December[/editline] let me put it like this: nothing ever ends, good or bad. the sun is an insensible cosmic entity and it'll keep rising no matter who wins the midterms or rigs the election or whatever. you can have the best or worst night of your life and you'll still have to get up tomorrow, regroup and take stock like neither even happened.

Democrats are anemic on black welfare but hey they're not sending them back 200 years

This is the former Director of US Office of Government Ethics tweeting this. If even he thinks something is coming up, we ought to keep it in mind: [media]https://twitter.com/waltshaub/status/941767481563254785[/media]

[QUOTE=BlindSniper17;52981613]This is the former Director of US Office of Government Ethics tweeting this. If even he thinks something is coming up, we ought to keep it in mind: [media]https://twitter.com/waltshaub/status/941767481563254785[/media][/QUOTE] So, time to break out helmets and plate carriers?

[QUOTE=LZTYBRN;52980637]yeah silence idk why you keep thinking bda is calling for a "violent overthrow" or whatever when literally all he's been saying is that they should be held accountable and if they aren't and get away with it, [B]the people should revolt[/B][/QUOTE] Revolting and removing elected politicians from office through force (ie violence) is literally a violent overthrow, I don't know how else you could possibly interpret that. He can say 'I don't want to overthrow the government, I just want to save it' all he wants, but when you're proposing storming Washington and removing elected officials from office [I]by force[/I], disregarding all laws and due process, you are proposing a violent overthrow of government, regardless of your intentions. There is no other way to spin that.

[QUOTE=catbarf;52981771]Removing elected politicians from office through force (ie violence) is literally a violent overthrow, there's no other way to spin it. He can say 'I just want to save the government' all he wants, but when you're proposing storming Washington and removing elected officials from office [i]by force[/i] you are proposing a violent overthrow of government. There is no other way to spin that.[/QUOTE] I guess? But 'by force' I read it as more 'drag them out from their office and refuse to let them back in while emergency elections are held' and less 'storm the building with guns and shoot them'. There's different levels of violence and it feels like he wants to spin it as a bloodbath. Also, I think it's prudent to point out that this is being used against officials charged with guarding those same laws and due orders and process - and are ignoring or perverting those while acting directly counter to the interests of the american people.

[QUOTE=Firgof Umbra;52981776]'drag them out from their office and refuse to let them back in while emergency elections are held'[/QUOTE] Anyone who thinks a mass of protestors can [I]peacefully[/I] storm Congress and the White House, detain their elected officials and the President while the police and Secret Service idly stand by, and remove them from office while holding emergency elections has clearly no inkling of how coups play out in practice. This won't be another Rose Revolution when Trump still has significant support despite his wrongdoings. [QUOTE=Firgof Umbra;52981776]Also, I think it's prudent to point out that this is being used against officials charged with guarding those same laws and due orders and process - and are ignoring or perverting those while acting directly counter to the interests of the american people. [/QUOTE] It's still a vigilante overthrow of the government, regardless of what the government has done to justify it. That's just what it is.

[QUOTE=catbarf;52981788]Anyone who thinks a mass of protestors can [i]peacefully[/i] storm Congress and the White House, detain their elected officials and the President while the police and Secret Service idly stand by, and remove them from office while holding emergency elections has clearly no inkling of how coups play out in practice. This won't be another Rose Revolution when Trump still has significant support despite his wrongdoings.[/quote] That all depends on whether the police want to involve themselves or not - and how willing to get bloodied the people executing that removal are. I expect there'll be violence - absolutely - I don't expect gunmen to go in guns blazing, indiscriminately mowing down everyone in sight or dragging people out to the steps of congress and beheading them etc etc. Arms may be involved -- but I imagine they'll be used much more in self-defense and for protection than for execution should it come to that. And by all the Gods I hope it doesn't come to that. [quote]It's still a vigilante overthrow of the government, regardless of what the government has done to justify it. That's just what it is.[/QUOTE] Absolutely. But if vigilantes are throwing out vigilantes there wasn't much question of 'law and order' to begin with, aye?

WHat good is the rule of law if it's being subverted and ignored and the people aren't being removed or jailed? No ones going to jail politicians who destroy the investigation or cause serious issues UNLESS there is that public pressure. Mass walk outs, demonstrations, protests, marches, occupation. Nothing short of that suffices.

Frankly, if all other measures have been exhausted, then yes: I believe that using force to remove this authoritarian fascistic regime may be unavoidable, [I]if[/I] Trump utilizes his executive powers in a way to impede, destroy, derail, or delay the criminal investigation into his actions, [I]if[/I] the GOP dominated congress backs his play to overturn the rule of law, [I]if[/I] the courts don't immediately issue warrants for the arrest of involved parties, and [I]if[/I] other arms of the executive branch (FBI, Intelligence Services, Military, Law Enforcement, etc) don't carry out those warrants due to having their authority to do so challenged. If what appears to be happening is what is [I]actually[/I] happening, then I want to exhaust every possible peaceful measure to ensure that justice is met. Sadly, the truth of the matter is that America as we know it is at risk. A regime that seized power on the back of treason is about to launch a coup to topple the checks and balances that limit its power. If every other possible measure has been exhausted, then yes, I believe that a more forceful response from the public may be unavoidable. Nobody should stand by and watch the death of constitutional rule idly.

[media]https://twitter.com/HouseInSession/status/941764336690847746[/media]

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;52976179]Overthrow the government? Do you not understand the consequences of Trump and the GOP killing this investigation? The government ceases to exist as we know it. It would cement Trump as America's first bonafide fide tyrant. If he is able to kill an investigation of this magnitude, one to determine whether he seized power through treason, then he is accountable to nobody and nothing. He is no longer a president, but a dictator. That can never be allowed to happen. This goes beyond partisanship and into the very beating core of the fundamental tenants of what our country is and how it supposed to be run. I am not calling for civil war and murder in the streets, but a march on Washington in which we demand the immediate arrest of all culpable parties and refuse to cow or back down. Relentless protest and occupation. Form a wall around Congress and the White House and refuse to let them pass. Flood the streets with people, lock down the capital. Refuse to restore order in the streets until order in our government has been restored. To do otherwise would mean the end of everything our country is.[/QUOTE] bro youre fucking crazy you realize that right?? ive been seeing your posts in every trump related thread and youre constantly talking about revolution.

[QUOTE=angrytoiletry;52983302]bro youre fucking crazy you realize that right?? ive been seeing your posts in every trump related thread and youre constantly talking about revolution.[/QUOTE] What are you talking about? He's right. IF rule of law breaks down, and IF there are no more peaceful ways to remove a tyrant from power and have him charged, insurrection is the patriotic duty of every citizen of a free country. Because the only alternative at that point is to lie down and take it like a good bitch. Americans aren't going to lie down. The point BDA made in another thread is that America is still a long way off from having to resort to that, but that it's time to start considering the possibility, however distasteful.

[QUOTE=angrytoiletry;52983302]bro youre fucking crazy you realize that right?? ive been seeing your posts in every trump related thread and youre constantly talking about revolution.[/QUOTE] The President steals the election through targeted voter suppression (e.g. removing voters who wouldn't likely vote for Trump from their registration databases in areas across the US that are not being actively watched but could nonetheless turn a popular-vote loss into an electoral-college win), targeted facebook/twitter ads from Russian-Propaganda sources that spread lies and misinformation, and mass identity theft that is spread directly to Russian Intelligence interests, providing them a great view of exactly where to hit us to sew the largest amount if discord and chaos amongst our citizenry as they divide us by political lines and tell us to hate each other and that the 'other side lies'. The President tries to corrupt the head of the FBI by making them 'swear loyalty' to him regarding an ongoing investigation that may or may not include Trump himself - all because he simply 'wanted it'. The President fires the head of the FBI, stating he did it because said head didn't swear loyalty - but in reality did it because he requires the investigation into him to end because he is guilty of a or several crimes. The President staffs the heads of every department with people who actively attempt to destroy said departments; leaves all other positions empty to sew chaos and discord. The President begins requiring scientific organizations to 'censor themselves' according to his own political aims. The President shuts down an investigation about how he possibly [I]stole[/I] the election as well as how Russia may be involved in that. The President makes a secret pact with Russia to allow sanctions to expire so that Putin's Oligarchs regain their blood money; all in exchange for ensuring Trump's business entities profit, his loans are forgiven, and that they will support him on the world stage. [B]Congress refuses to impeach a President for any of the above reasons if/when they are proven to be true.[/B] Congress refuses to check the powers of the President, abandoning their constitutional duty. Congress refuses to impeach the President for interfering in ongoing investigations by unilaterally stating the guilt and/or judgment of said people. Congress refuses to impeach the President for effectively advocating for Nazis and the election of Pedophiles. [U]Congress refuses to impeach the President for stating that he's going to rebuild the FBI after firing its head because they refused to serve his political interests.[/U] At what point in the above is a revolution appropriate and justifiable? [I]The bolded part.[/I] Where are we now? The underlined part. So where would you draw the line, angrytoiletry, since you seem to think BDA is 'jumping the gun' and/or is crazy?

[QUOTE=Firgof Umbra;52981776]I guess? But 'by force' I read it as more 'drag them out from their office and refuse to let them back in while emergency elections are held' and less 'storm the building with guns and shoot them'. There's different levels of violence and it feels like he wants to spin it as a bloodbath. Also, I think it's prudent to point out that this is being used against officials charged with guarding those same laws and due orders and process - and are ignoring or perverting those while acting directly counter to the interests of the american people.[/QUOTE] Honestly at some point even a bloodbath is better than destroying a nation.

[QUOTE=zakedodead;52983423]Honestly at some point even a bloodbath is better than destroying a nation.[/QUOTE] Implying it wouldn't destroy the nation just as much

[QUOTE=angrytoiletry;52983302]bro youre fucking crazy you realize that right?? ive been seeing your posts in every trump related thread and youre constantly talking about revolution.[/QUOTE] "Revolution" is tearing down an old system of government to install a new one, which is the exact opposite of what I'm calling for. The only thing I want is that the rule of constitutional law be upheld, dude. Congress cannot allow the president to get away with attempting to tear down the checks and balances on his power. If Congress fails to act, then the Judiciary needs to act, and the Executive branch needs to enforce the rule of the judiciary. We have an administration in office that appears to be preparing to actively assault the very core of how our government functions in order to seize and maintain power. That's a coup. I don't want to see our rule of law destroyed, I want to see it preserved. If every one of those checks and balances have had their constitutional authority stripped away, then the final line of defense between the fall of the American government and the rise of a tyrant is the American people. I obviously hope it doesn't come to that, and we're a good few steps away from that actually being necessary. If or when Trump attempts to destroy this investigation before it sinks his ship, the future of this country will depend on the Congressional, Judicial, and Executive response. We are facing the greatest constitutional crisis in US history -- it's something that we need to take quite seriously.

[QUOTE=angrytoiletry;52983302]bro youre fucking crazy you realize that right?? ive been seeing your posts in every trump related thread and youre constantly talking about revolution.[/QUOTE] Hmmmm, whats better? Grabbing a pitch-fork or bend the knee to a Psychopathic, Alzheimers ridden, narcissistic "President" who views himself as a King. Grabbin ma pitchfork.

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;52984664]"Revolution" is tearing down an old system of government to install a new one, which is the exact opposite of what I'm calling for. The only thing I want is that the rule of constitutional law be upheld, dude. Congress cannot allow the president to get away with attempting to tear down the checks and balances on his power. If Congress fails to act, then the Judiciary needs to act, and the Executive branch needs to enforce the rule of the judiciary. We have an administration in office that appears to be preparing to actively assault the very core of how our government functions in order to seize and maintain power. That's a coup. I don't want to see our rule of law destroyed, I want to see it preserved. If every one of those checks and balances have had their constitutional authority stripped away, then the final line of defense between the fall of the American government and the rise of a tyrant is the American people. I obviously hope it doesn't come to that, and we're a good few steps away from that actually being necessary. If or when Trump attempts to destroy this investigation before it sinks his ship, the future of this country will depend on the Congressional, Judicial, and Executive response. We are facing the greatest constitutional crisis in US history -- it's something that we need to take quite seriously.[/QUOTE] youre way overthinking this dude and i get it: people on the other end of the spectrum were spewing this same shit when obama was in office youre worried about your nation but the way you word your posts makes you sound like a maniac. whatever trump is im not commenting on, but what i will comment on is that we do have checks and balances. this isnt going to be some tyrant who tears down the entire framework our nation is built in, let alone in 4 years. im not saying to leave it alone and ignore it either, but let congress and the courts do their thing. they were designed so shit that youre saying wont happen.

[QUOTE=angrytoiletry;52986084]youre way overthinking this dude and i get it: people on the other end of the spectrum were spewing this same shit when obama was in office youre worried about your nation but the way you word your posts makes you sound like a maniac. whatever trump is im not commenting on, but what i will comment on is that we do have checks and balances. this isnt going to be some tyrant who tears down the entire framework our nation is built in, let alone in 4 years. im not saying to leave it alone and ignore it either, but let congress and the courts do their thing. they were designed so shit that youre saying wont happen.[/QUOTE] He's not saying we have to riot [i]right now[/i], he's saying if the checks and balances fail we have to go out and do something about it that isn't just writing letters and calling representatives.

[QUOTE=angrytoiletry;52986084]youre way overthinking this dude and i get it: people on the other end of the spectrum were spewing this same shit when obama was in office youre worried about your nation but the way you word your posts makes you sound like a maniac. whatever trump is im not commenting on, but what i will comment on is that we do have checks and balances. this isnt going to be some tyrant who tears down the entire framework our nation is built in, let alone in 4 years. im not saying to leave it alone and ignore it either, but let congress and the courts do their thing. they were designed so shit that youre saying wont happen.[/QUOTE] Congress is [U]presently not 'doing its thing'[/U]. What you're saying 'won't happen' is [I]presently happening[/I]. Apparently, recognizing that one of our checks and balances has decided not to do its job 'makes someone a maniac'. If that's so then I hope the whole nation becomes maniacs. The only thing Trump needs in order to 'tear down the entire framework our nation is built on' is to convince one arm of the government to ignore and endorse whatever he says. Lo and behold, that is exactly what they're doing. That is literally the lynchpin on which rests the entire balance of our entire government - that each arm checks the other. We simply do not have a representative republic when the branches are not checking/balancing each other - we have dynastic tyranny or an oligarchy - your choice. It is as fundamental as 'the government taxes what income people receive'. If the IRS suddenly decided it didn't feel like collecting taxes and the Secretary of the Treasury shrugged his shoulders and said 'eh, do whatever you like' would that not be the time to immediately go 'oh fuck our entire Government is about to crash and burn'? Also, don't think I didn't notice you refusing to state 'when it would be OK' to do the thing that you're saying 'but don't do that you're crazy man lol' when I asked you above.

[QUOTE=angrytoiletry;52986084]youre way overthinking this dude and i get it: people on the other end of the spectrum were spewing this same shit when obama was in office youre worried about your nation but the way you word your posts makes you sound like a maniac. whatever trump is im not commenting on, but what i will comment on is that we do have checks and balances. this isnt going to be some tyrant who tears down the entire framework our nation is built in, let alone in 4 years. im not saying to leave it alone and ignore it either, but let congress and the courts do their thing. they were designed so shit that youre saying wont happen.[/QUOTE] I need you to actually read what I'm writing, because what you're criticizing me of overlooking is exactly what I've stated, and in no uncertain terms. We have a system of checks and balances, but that system may be under assault. IF the system is destroyed, THEN we need to act. Not before. After. I said that quite explicitly. If Trump attempts to destroy, derail, or impede this investigation, then the checks and balances must actually "check and balance." The Judiciary must charge him for his high crimes of office, Congress must impeach him for those crimes, and the Executive branches must arrest him (and anyone else culprit to the crimes). So, IF the executive branch has had its authority to investigate and arrest Trump and his collaborators stripped away, IF the Judiciary has had it's authority to prosecute their crimes stripped away, and IF Congress refuses to impeach Trump because they find his coup politically expedient, THEN our checks and balances have failed. You see what I'm getting at, dude? You keep calling me a maniac, but I'm saying the exact same thing as you lol. The only difference in our arguments here is that my position is that IF the administration has successfully torn down the checks and balances put in place by our constitution have been sundered, THEN our last recourse as a nation to preserve the rule of constitutional law is to forcefully remove this administration, and its collaborators, from office. That is a, hopefully, unlikely scenario, but we MUST understand what's at stake here, and recognize that any lesser response would be establishing a new norm in which the head of our government has absolute power and authority. That can't happen. [editline]17th December 2017[/editline] As one more note, your comment about "the other end of the spectrum spewing the same shit" has no basis in reality. There is simply no comparison to beade between the "threat" posed by Obama and the [I]threat[/I] posed by Trump. If you believe differently, then I'd ask you to link me to the colossal FBI investigation into Obama's rule, resulting in multiple indictments and guilty pleas, fired investigative leads, and repeated attempts from both the administration and the DNC to impede, derail, and obstruct said investigation. Whoops, that never happened under Obama's rule...